Elephant in the Room, Top Speed of eBikes

[Spotty dog]

I think in the states you have it just about right 750w power limit 20mph speed limit, a touch slow but a very usable turn of pace on what could be a cycle with no suspension rim brakes and a rider who may not have a licence to drive or ride a motorbike and the road skill that gives you.
In the UK we have a 250w power limit and 15mph top assisted speed which is pretty poor by comparison, I agree even 20mph has no place on busy trails with kids and dogs walking free.I have access to many miles of canel tow paths I enjoy riding on but at no more than 10/12mph when clear of walkers.
As a young fit rider 35 years ago I used to get up to some pretty high speeds on my regular leg power bike on city roads, the speed doesnt save you from car drivers who seem unable to judge or expect to see a bicycle moving at traffic speed.
I've had people wind down the window and shout the speed limit to me as they broke it overtaking me! , once e bikes start exceding 30mph I think you need decent suspension and powerful brakes to slow down or stop quickly.It becomes too much like a motorcycle and something that loses the right to share the fredoms of a bicycle.

 

[Nebula722]

I think I see at least 2different camps here, those who ride on traffic and those that don't. I ride my bike for exercise and fun and almost never go in traffic , maybe to get to a shared use trail. I take side streets and go a little further rather than be on a larger road. On a road above 35 speed limit it just isn't "fun". I could and do on occaision go the roads , not overly concerned but just don't enjoy it.

Bike lanes are an improvement to none but if there isn't a physical barrier , even a small one between me and traffic I consider it to be the same as on the road.

I don't commute or run many errands on my bike so I cant/wont speak to the people who do. At what point it becomes more than bike and a motorized commuter is what we seem to be dancing around. My understanding is somewhere around 35 on regular ebike your input is doing nothing because of aerodynamics. You are pedaling hard but it really is all motor. To me this is no longer a bike and where I believe the European rules an S pedalistic bike w/plates and all should start. Not the speed but where pedaling is useless.

All bikes should have brake lights and turn signals especially ebikes since they electricity anyway .

Anybody out at night , walking , riding should be required to have lights enough "to be seen". I can't see people on the trails at night even doing the 15 mph posted on the trails wearing dark clothes and nothing reflective, bigger issue than speed to me (as I have said before, I know)

Mark

I agree with your comments. I no longer drive and use my etrike for everything within twenty miles as I have a forty mile range. I look for a chore to go do so I can have an excuse to go ride. So when it comes to traffic I do the same as you, I ride around it, take a side street or bike path. I am retired and have time to take the long way around the trouble. Of course sometimes I am on a busy road but normally not for long.

I also agree with the lights. I have been looking for a light kit with turn signals but have not found one I like. Admittedly I have not looked hard enough. I had wheel lamps so that I was very visible. One day it reached 109 degrees and the lamps melted so much they no longer would fit on the wheels.

My needs and desires do not include going fast. I do understand riders that want to go fast and think bikes should be available. At what speed does a bike become a motorcycle?

Have a swimmingly good day.

Tommy

 

[biknut]

I can understand why everyone seems so anal about the bike trails considering the general negative reaction to eBikes, mainly by the bicyclers. Personally I've never observed an eBike acting up on a trail, so I don't really understand why it keeps getting so much attention, but my guess is people are paranoid eBikes might be banned from the trails, and if eBikes are banned, that's a big problem for a lot of eBike owners, because that's the only place many feel comfortable riding their relatively heavy, slow bicycles.

I've noticed that all the trail users basically consider everyone else to be the problem. This is the trail pecking order.

Walkers, dislike joggers.
Joggers dislike skaters,
Skaters dislike bicyclers.
The bicyclers for the most part dislike everyone, especially eBikes.
The eBikes usually are minding their own business, and don't really bother anyone, except just by being there.

I really don't think we need to worry about it, and should stop fixating on the haters. Haters will always be haters. Here in Dallas there's a very popular, and at times, congested multi use trail called the Katy trail, that runs between Highland Park, through Uptown, and into downtown. Rich snooty types, and upscale high pressure yuppies populate both sides of the trail from one end to the other, and consider it like their personal property.
Downtown not far from the trailhead, there's a business that offers guided tours of the downtown, and Uptown areas on Segway's. The trail operator started taking the tours up the trail. If there's anything that looks more dangerous to a walker than an eBike, it's got to be a stupid looking Segway LOL. I'm sure if one of those things ran over your toe it would be quite painful. In no time at all, the snoots using their moneyed influence talked city hall into banning the Segway's off the trail. That didn't sit well with the tour operator. After talking with his lawyer, he informed city hall that federal law requires access be given to Segway's, and certain other electric vehicles, eBikes included, if the trail was made all, or in part, with federal money. He threatened to sue their butts off if they didn't rescind the ordinance like right now. Of course city hall doesn't roll over easy, but after the city attorney informed them, the guy had the law on his side, they couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Now even the police are riding the stupid dangerous looking things on the trail.

There was one unfortunate fatality on this trail. It was a few years ago, involving a jogger, and a regular bicycle. The jogger, a young girl wearing ear buds, stepped in front of a speeding bicycler, and was killed. After that the police stepped up patrols on the trail especially on busy weekends, and there hasn't been any other problems since.

I did have an old lady bicycler yell at be once, but not because I was going too fast. It was because she thought I was in her way, damn it. All I was trying to do was stop and take a picture of my bike.

 

[biknut]

This is another one of my friends bikes. He's like me, a convert from gas bicycles, to electric. This bicycle started life as a Walmart bicycle that he converted. The motor was a Magic Pie 1000w, but now has enhancements. The stock controller inside the hub failed, so he removed it, and now runs a controller made for fork lifts. Originally 48v, he's now running a 72v pack. He made this bike to commute to work on, and it tops out 40 + mph, but he's usually cruising it about 30 to extend his range. At 30 he has enough speed in reserve to get out of the way of that bus.

He balked at the idea of commuting on a factory bike, because in his opinion they're all either too slow to be safe in traffic, or too expensive. He's not alone in that thinking.

 

[opimax]

I rode the Katy trail in MS , didn't know it went to Texas. regular bike for 5 days, 250 miles..now I do

 

[biknut]

I rode the Katy trail in MS , didn't know it went to Texas. regular bike for 5 days, 250 miles..now I do

It's only about 4 miles long right now. They're working on extending it a couple of miles to connect with another trail, but the hold up has been that it will have to cross over an expressway. Very slowly Dallas is building more trails around town.

 

[opimax]

I would love to take a driving vacation like I did w/my parents years ago but on a bike path the whole time !!! lets connect those trails!

 

[Brambor]

Opimax this is a utopian dream of mine. Have a collective agreement and cultural push from majority of taxpayers to demand connecting their town to the adjacent towns with a bike/hike trail. This way energy is localized and not spread out thin. If every community did this (within reasonable distance of course - anything that is too far could be subsidized) we would have ways to connect with our neighbors without the use of automobile. Great for kids too.

 

[biknut]

Opimax this is a utopian dream of mine. Have a collective agreement and cultural push from majority of taxpayers to demand connecting their town to the adjacent towns with a bike/hike trail. This way energy is localized and not spread out thin. If every community did this (within reasonable distance of course - anything that is too far could be subsidized) we would have ways to connect with our neighbors without the use of automobile. Great for kids too.

This is a great idea, but first I'd settle for some trails that just allowed me to commute around town. Dallas is a mess. Most of the burbs have their own set of trails, that for the most part don't go anywhere, or connect together with any other trails. What few good trails there are, all go to downtown. I live on the North side of town, 15 miles out. Most of my commuting is East, West. There are few trails in this direction. If you want to ride across town, side streets will only get you so far before coming to a major barrier like a toll way, or train track. At that point your only choice is to bust out onto one of the busy streets, possibly for a couple miles before you can get back to a side street, and this repeats every mile or two. It's not to bad if you can do 30 mph or close to it, but Dallas drivers have little patience for bicycles blocking the lane. Dallas for many years was considered the most unfriendly bicycle city in the country. That's slowly starting to change, but some places in the burbs are still pretty wild and wooly. The more upscale they are, the worse they seem in some cases.

That's why I like to advocate for higher top speeds on eBikes. Fortunately it seems like all the local police realize the situation, and they turn a blind eye to eBikes running for their lives in traffic, at what technically is above the legal eBike speed of 20 mph.

 

[opimax]

Best bet is the rails to trails program I believe , such as the Katy trail. On an ebike I bet I would have been more comfortable, travels further, carry more items. I also really enjoyed the Silver Comet that runs 100 miles between basically Atlanta and a small town in Alabama

In Europe you can take ebike vacations where the have support including charged batteries along the way

Anybody want to plan some long trips next year?

 

[Nebula722]

Best bet is the rails to trails program I believe , such as the Katy trail. On an ebike I bet I would have been more comfortable, travels further, carry more items. I also really enjoyed the Silver Comet that runs 100 miles between basically Atlanta and a small town in Alabama

In Europe you can take ebike vacations where the have support including charged batteries along the way

Anybody want to plan some long trips next year?

Sounds like you have had some good rides. I wish there was a company that supported ebike touring in the USA.