Economic riding using TCD.

[Fredman]

That's not technically possible, as your crank doesn't drive the chainring directly but through the motor gearing.

It would be hard to convince you Fredman or Nxkharra it is not about the motor drag. Nxkharra owns a repair stand, so he could lift his Vado and turn the cranks by hand forward, with the chain removed (I did it). You feel no drag whatsoever! Either with power OFF or with the motor completely off.

If you guys could have a chance, try demo riding Vado SL (not saying it is a bike for everybody). It is a shocking experience to ride an e-bike that is by 20 pounds lighter than the "full power" Vado. SL owners say it is so easy for them to ride past the speed limiter, and the same is hardly doable on heavy e-bikes.

Stefan believe me i'm not trying to be difficult. I've been testing and concentrating on this today...took the bikes for a few drives...to see if it isn't my imagination. All I can say is the drag is there and it makes for an uncomfortable ride. On the other hand the only time I would have to deal with it, is when I run out of battery and really have to...so i'll live with it.

Fredman: Another question for you. You say Mission Control is out of question in your case, and I respect that. Is it you cannot use it or don't want to use it? If you can, just use the app to tune the Assistance and Max Power. You could find a sweet point at which your Vado still feels rideable but offers significantly less support. It could be 25/25 setting for Eco. You would ride slower at such a setting but would be positively surprised how much range you would gain. I was using similar setting to ride together with my "acoustic" friend. The range increased dramatically!

I'll get to mission control in time Stefan. For now I first want to get comfortable with all the other stuff that comes with the e bike experience. I've only done about 400km to far...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

There's a great feature in Mission Control --> Let's Ride called Smart Control. You give planned ride distance, expected elevation gain and ask Smart Control to leave certain battery percentage at the end of the ride. This is a kind of electronic Cruise Control that works surprisingly well: typically it offers a lot of assistance while making your distance goal guaranteed, despite of adverse wind, for instance. Try it sometimes

I currently prefer BLEvo app. While Smart Control there is laughable, BLEvo gives the estimated range at any time very precisely. It also gives easy access to motor tuning with Bike Monitor still running. (The user has to choose whether Mission Control or BLEvo should be used on a given ride). I'm now more inclined to use BLEvo. More and more of my rides can be done on a single battery, as either of these options cures the range anxiety totally

Just saying.

 

[Fredman]

Just saying

And I'm listening
I've read some about you talking about it, and I've been on and off thinking about it. When the time comes you're the one i'll be wanting to talk to....

 

[Comfortably Numb]

And I'm listening
I've read some about you talking about it, and I've been on and off thinking about it. When the time comes you're the one i'll be wanting to talk to....

Ditto. CN

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’m sorry, but I do not think this is possible. If the bike is completely turned off, or it’s powered on but with the PAS turned off, the motor will not provide power. If it is, something is wrong and you should have it checked out ASAP.

It is not possible. I rode out today and switched the BLEvo on, Assist OFF. BLEvo reported zero power consumption by the motor, while it reported my leg input.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

I have no plans to ride it often turned off...that would be defeating the object. The whole talk so far revolves around low or no battery.


That is my logic as well. I just took the two bikes again and both does it. The surge is much slighter as when the motor is powered on, but it is there. Like I said above, I plan to speak to the LBS next week when it goes for the service.

For what it's worth I've ridden clients bikes with broken motors and dead batteries. If the motor has an issue with the drive belt (usually what happpens in the rare instances of motor failure) it doesn't change how much effort is required to pedal the bike. Granted you go way slower, but if you change the TCD display to show wattage (which is rider output) you can make sure your effort is the same with and without the assist. The byproduct is the speed. Less assist=less speed with constant rider effort, the inverse is also true.

 

[BEC111]

I've tried that. With the motor off, it feels like i'm going against the motor. It has a drag that I have to pedal against....i'm planning to speak to the shop mechanic when I take it in for it's first service next week. Don't know if it's normal, but I don't like that. I actually can't see myself riding it with the battery off for a distance...!

I find that with power off there is slight drag when compared with assist at zero. Conversely, when at zero or power off and I switch power on or to a higher assist, without stopping, it takes a while for the assist to stabilize. It drags at sport and eco for a while, especially if I shift back to zero. It’s as if the cadence sensor lost count. To make it more fun, it doesn’t always happen.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

I find that with power off there is slight drag when compared with assist at zero. Conversely, when at zero or power off and I switch power on or to a higher assist, without stopping, it takes a while for the assist to stabilize. It drags at sport and eco for a while, especially if I shift back to zero. It’s as if the cadence sensor lost count. To make it more fun, it doesn’t always happen.

It's best to not turn the bike on and off while moving. Doesn't hurt anything mechanically, but the sensors (cadence/speed/power) need a zero setting. Again, doesn't hurt anything but you're more likely to run into an error of sorts.

Riding the bike fully turned off versus "on" with no assist, there is ZERO output from the motor while at zero help with the system still on reading speed/power/cadence.

I think most folks, understandably, don't realize how heavy duty these bikes are spec'd compared to acoustic bikes. The tires are really heavy and flat resilient, and the bike weight is significant especially uphill or stopping starting. Also keep in mind the best part of ebikes is the fact that you can ride in a super upright position, which is VERY un-aerodynamic, and still ride longer distances. When you're upright on these bikes it's like riding with a parachute attached, look at any pro cyclist from a side profile. Back is usually flat with is very aero, combined with an aero frame and deep section wheels. I've tested this myself riding to the shop, I'm usually laid down on the bars in an aero "tuck" of sorts and I can sit at the max speed with assist only putting out about 170-200 watts.

 

[Nxkharra]

It's best to not turn the bike on and off while moving. Doesn't hurt anything mechanically, but the sensors (cadence/speed/power) need a zero setting. Again, doesn't hurt anything but you're more likely to run into an error of sorts.

Riding the bike fully turned off versus "on" with no assist, there is ZERO output from the motor while at zero help with the system still on reading speed/power/cadence.

I think most folks, understandably, don't realize how heavy duty these bikes are spec'd compared to acoustic bikes. The tires are really heavy and flat resilient, and the bike weight is significant especially uphill or stopping starting. Also keep in mind the best part of ebikes is the fact that you can ride in a super upright position, which is VERY un-aerodynamic, and still ride longer distances. When you're upright on these bikes it's like riding with a parachute attached, look at any pro cyclist from a side profile. Back is usually flat with is very aero, combined with an aero frame and deep section wheels. I've tested this myself riding to the shop, I'm usually laid down on the bars in an aero "tuck" of sorts and I can sit at the max speed with assist only putting out about 170-200 watts.

I agree with your comment of not turning the bike on while moving.
I have noticed some unusual setting and resetting happening in the motor before it turned on. As you mentioned while this might not hurt the bike but probably not a good practice.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

I agree with your comment of not turning the bike on while moving.
I have noticed some unusual setting and resetting happening in the motor before it turned on. As you mentioned while this might not hurt the bike but probably not a good practice.

Correct, best to let the system boot up before riding so there's the correct reading on the sensors before departing. Also the current draw while leaving the system "on" but with zero assist is really minimal. Also you want the ODO of the bike to be accurate as it really helps from the service side in terms of mileage on the rest of the components.

 

[Fredman]

It's best to not turn the bike on and off while moving

Thanks for that Brendon. Makes a lot of sense now that you mention it. It's like any electronic device i'm sure... it takes a few moments before it's ready to do it's thing.
While I have you here. I take it you're aware that the motor has a tendency to loose power sometimes. While i'm riding it all of a sudden don't give any power. The TCD and battery is on, but no power. I've read that discussed here before. One explanation was that the battery contacts might be the culprit...use dielectric grease.
Do you have any explanation for that? Both my vado 4.0 and the wife's como 3.0 (both 2020 models) does that. The como more than the vado though.
It's not a big deal. We just put it off and on and it fires up again, but i'm curious as to why exactly it happens. I have dielectric grease on both bikes contacts, and they both do that before and after I applied the grease.

 

[Fredman]

It is not possible. I rode out today and switched the BLEvo on, Assist OFF. BLEvo reported zero power consumption by the motor, while it reported my leg input.

Stefan does your bike also give that momentarily surge of acceleration when it's powered on and you give it one hard quarter of a pedal? The surge momentarily continues after you've seized that quarter of a pedal....Hope you know what I mean.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

hard

Perhaps that's the keyword? If you push on the pedal hard, Vado revenges with very strong support. (It is equivalent to pushing the car's accelerator hard). Bear in mind that your own torque (rotational force) depends on the current pedal angle. My Vado operates very smoothly and naturally. I think that's just a matter of pedalling style.

What is your cadence readout telling you? What is your typical cadence? Do you operate with gears actively? (you should, to maintain a good cadence).

 

[Fredman]

Nah we're talking part each other again. Pity we can't have a ride together so I can show you exactly what I mean....

It's ok though. Happy riding mate

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Nah we're talking part each other again. Pity we can't have a ride together so I can show you exactly what I mean....

It's ok though. Happy riding mate

I guess you stop worrying after some 5000 km ridden on your Vado I worried too much just after I got my Vado. Just like you!
Happy rides! Enjoy your Summer!

 

[Nxkharra]

Stefan does your bike also give that momentarily surge of acceleration when it's powered on and you give it one hard quarter of a pedal? The surge momentarily continues after you've seized that quarter of a pedal....Hope you know what I mean.

Fredman. I agree with @Stefan Mikes some of your issues might go away after you really get used to this complicated motor. If bike stops assisting momentarily and often and if accelerates unusually there could be issues with TCD or motor. Hope not
In my case they had to replace both TCD and motor at about 1000 miles (warranty) and no issues since then. The system generates error messages and when LBS transmits the report to Specialized they take action.
Just sharing my experience and not diagnosing your issue.

 

[Fredman]

Fredman. I agree with @Stefan Mikes some of your issues might go away after you really get used to this complicated motor. If bike stops assisting momentarily and often and if accelerates unusually there could be issues with TCD or motor. Hope not
In my case they had to replace both TCD and motor at about 1000 miles (warranty) and no issues since then. The system generates error messages and when LBS transmits the report to Specialized they take action.
Just sharing my experience and not diagnosing your issue.

Ha Ha...Nah it's not issues as such i'm having mate. Or rather I don't see it as issues.... i'm more interesting and curious about it yes.
There is a bit of an issue, with me not being able to describe it properly in English...
But that's ok...i'm working on it and getting better