E-Bikes On Legal, Paved Trails

[AvalancheRun]

My overwhelming takeaway from most of these arguments is that we need exponentially more non-car infrastructure.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

My overwhelming takeaway from most of these arguments is that we need exponentially more non-car infrastructure.

Around 2% of federal transportation funds are spent on bicycle infra. Whether this is Not Enough or Insanely Too Much kind of depends on your point of view. My own personal opinion is it is a long, long way from sufficient.

 

[jabberwocky]

As an old roadie and current ebike and road bike enthusiast, I actually find your comments prejudicial and a bit elitist. Very few serious cyclists ride bike paths and to call them all “Effite, elitist, jackass snobs the lot of ‘em” seems a bit ironic.

As someone with a lot of friends who would qualify as pretty elite roadies, the true hardcore roadies actually tend to be pretty polite riders when they are on paths, though they rarely ride them. The problem people are usually weekend warrior wannabes. People who spend big money on fancy bikes and gear but don't actually race or ride in groups and are scared of roads so they go out on MUPs and treat them like training grounds/ego boosters. As Djangodog says, actual hardcore roadies almost never ride paths. In my roadie days, every group I rode with had alternate road routes that paralleled every major trail whenever they could. They would rather ride some dicey 4 lane parallel road than ride the path.

I'm sure the habits of various groups vary by locality/region, so your mileage may vary and all that. I bike commuted on my local MUP for several years and have lived near it for almost 20 so my lifetime riding miles are in the tens of thousands on that trail and I don't know that I'd say any group has a majority when it comes to stupid behavior. I see cyclists (electric and non) passing aggressively, joggers with headphones in paying no attention, kids weaving all over both lanes, people stopping in the middle of the trail to chat with each other, etc. I do think its human behavior to excuse or ignore poor behavior from a group you identify with and notice poor behavior from groups you don't, so I'd bet no matter who you asked they would say some other group is the worst offender. But the reality is every group has its idiots and jerks.

 

[jabberwocky]

Around 2% of federal transportation funds are spent on bicycle infra. Whether this is Not Enough or Insanely Too Much kind of depends on your point of view. My own personal opinion is it is a long, long way from sufficient.

Data says that ~13% of all trips are done by walking or bicycling (from the National Household Travel Survey 2017 data), per link. Pretty sure we spend a much lower percentage than that on non-car transportation infra.

 

[Jason Knight]

As an old roadie and current ebike and road bike enthusiast, I actually find your comments prejudicial and a bit elitist. Very few serious cyclists ride bike paths and to call them all “Effite, elitist, jackass snobs the lot of ‘em” seems a bit ironic.

Probably regionalism as I see them here on MUP as much as I do on roads. When I do see them on roads they're the same type of jackasses, just showing no respect for vehicles either and putting themselves -- and everyone else -- at risk.

HELL YEAH I'm prejudiced towards them. Their behavior and attitude is why!

There's a reason civility is the tool of the oppressor, and those screaming loudest for "respect" are those who generally are unworthy of it having never shown any towards others. Nothing wrong with hate so long as you're hating the right things.

 

[Jason Knight]

The problem people are usually weekend warrior wannabes. People who spend big money on fancy bikes and gear but don't actually race or ride in groups and are scared of roads so they go out on MUPs and treat them like training grounds/ego boosters.

This seems to be all I see 'round my parts. And in that way I suspect you are 100% right about region playing a significant part.

I do think its human behavior to excuse or ignore poor behavior from a group you identify with and notice poor behavior from groups you don't, so I'd bet no matter who you asked they would say some other group is the worst offender. But the reality is every group has its idiots and jerks.

THIS! The mental failing propaganda techniques like bandwagon exists to exploit... along with a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance.

Actually comes close to the Wizard's first rule.

 

[BikerG]

I prefer to ride on dirt fire roads to a trail camp for overnight camping. If I’m not hauling a load of camping gear, I use my regular bike.

 

[Djangodog]

Probably regionalism as I see them here on MUP as much as I do on roads. When I do see them on roads they're the same type of jackasses, just showing no respect for vehicles either and putting themselves -- and everyone else -- at risk.

HELL YEAH I'm prejudiced towards them. Their behavior and attitude is why!

There's a reason civility is the tool of the oppressor, and those screaming loudest for "respect" are those who generally are unworthy of it having never shown any towards others. Nothing wrong with hate so long as you're hating the right things.

Well Jason, I can tell you that it is not regional in this situation. I am about forty miles north of you. Your perception is probably biased by your paranoia and delusions and not based on reality. Keene is not as you describe and you always seem to sensationalize any topic so that you can rant about imagined enemies.

Despite being one of those that you choose to judge and hate, I choose to have sympathy for you instead. Please consider getting some professional help.

 

[Kayakguy]

North Carolina... The triad is the cities of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and High Point. It's the Piedmont because it's at the foot of the mountains.

Wondering whether the people of Greensboro and High Point ever tried to get cigarette brands named after them?

 

[PatriciaK]

Wondering whether the people of Greensboro and High Point ever tried to get cigarette brands named after them?

Nah ... High Point is (was?) a big furniture production center - Think "Thomasville", etc., and Greensboro was a big clothing mill town .

 

[mschwett]

This seems to be all I see 'round my parts. And in that way I suspect you are 100% right about region playing a significant part.

...

i have driven my entire life in northern california, plus the usual forays here and there for a few days or weeks at a time, and i'm scratching my head to think if i've EVER encountered a serious road cyclist being obnoxious, rude, selfish, or anything of the sort to me. i've also ridden about 20,000 miles on bikes in the past couple years, and can confirm that i have NEVER been treated rudely by a serious road cyclist. the last time i had a mechanical problem on my bike, the vast majority of the many cyclists who whizzed by after me stopped to see if they could help, offering to call for the tool needed, macgyver it up, ride to a shop and get me a tool, and a million other things. these are not a-holes. i had a medical emergency on a bike ride recently and when i regained consciousness the crowd gathered to help was mostly road cyclists, one of whom was ready to ride home to get his car with a bike rack so he could take my bike home for me. these people know their hobby and practice it pretty much as safely as possible within the parameters of sharing roads with 2-3 ton motor vehicles occasionally driven by the lowest common denominator of biped.

the worst two wheeled behavior i've ever seen was a recent trip to new york where it seemed that in most of the bronx, small electric motorcyles masquerading as bikes enjoyed going the wrong direction in the bike lane at all times. that and the occasional close pass (which did once cause my older daughter to crash) going uphill by a high powered throttled ebike in the bike lane of a steep hill.

i do not believe regional differences could possibly make THAT much of a difference and have suspicions there are other factors at work besides the actual behavior of said individuals.

 

[Doggyman1202]

As an old roadie and current ebike and road bike enthusiast, I actually find your comments prejudicial and a bit elitist. Very few serious cyclists ride bike paths and to call them all “Effite, elitist, jackass snobs the lot of ‘em” seems a bit ironic.

I know. It's a pity that 90% of them ruin it for the 10% that are not "effete, elitist jackass snobs".

Okay. Snarky sarcasm aside. I live in a ski community and most visitors I meet are perfectly nice people. Like cycling though, the "flatlanders" that are obnoxious really stand out and create a lot of animosity toward the tourists collectively, which is unfortunate.

Jason is exercising a little poetic license in an otherwise superb rant. Every endeavor or profession has their share of negative stereotypes. It's not personal.

 

[Govermentcheese]

I ride my E bike where I want.. With my little friend...

 

[Renee]

Years ago when I was riding an Italian racing bike, the hard core cyclists were the people who followed the rules and were polite. The walkers/joggers/kids/weekend riders were the ones who didn't. After getting back on a bicycle at 67 (Evelo Omega), I was surprised to find that the hard core cyclists are the ones who pass at high speed, never announce they are passing, pass into oncoming riders, and are generally assholes. No one seems to mind ebikes because we are not the rude people.

I find this also the case. It's as if they are training and we all (bikers and walkers) are in the way. I generally slow down for children and dogs and follow the car rule that when you pass you wait till the opposite lane is clear. I have had bicyclists barrel by clear or not. Like in any group its the minority of e- bikers who put the throttle on high and zoom past everyone that is cause the concern. I often think that if you hit someone a child or elderly person you will change their life forever with an injury. I don't want to be that person.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Like in any group its the minority of e- bikers who put the throttle on high and zoom past everyone one that cause the concern.

A lot of the ebikes that zoom past me are being ghost-pedaled. Simple all-or-nothing cadence-sensing assist enables this behavior by turning the pedals into full-power foot throttles.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I'd say 80 percent of the e-bikers I see are just using the throttle or ghost pedaling.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I'd say 80 percent of the e-bikers I see are just using the throttle or ghost pedaling.

Ditto here in coastal north San Diego County. Lots of ebikes here, and most seem to be used mainly for transportation. Throttling and ghost-pedaling make sense in that context.

Fine by me as long as it's done responsibly, but some riders — especially young males — just can't be trusted with easy speed.

 

[Doggyman1202]

As an aside, I read complaints on threads about relatively expensive e-bikes. Users grumble that the mid-drive torque sensing e-bike they purchased or considering either lacks a throttle altogether, or the throttle performance is lacking. I maintain that throttle riding defeats the main benefit of the aforementioned type of bike. I understand that some riders feel they get a safer and quicker boost at busy intersections with a throttle, but if your primary riding style is pedal avoidance or effortless pedaling, you'll be happier with a cadence sensing rear hub model. You'll save a lot of money too.

I'll admit that one reason I never use a throttle is that it's just a lazy-ass look on recreational paths, (I'm not referring to practical transportation and commuting) and likely to create more restrictions for e-bikes generally.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I maintain that throttle riding defeats the main benefit of the aforementioned type of bike.

My speed sensor went bad about 11 months ago, so my throttle doesn't work. With torque sensing, I haven't missed my throttle one bit.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

As an aside, I read complaints on threads about relatively expensive e-bikes. Users grumble that the mid-drive torque sensing e-bike they purchased or considering either lacks a throttle altogether, or the throttle performance is lacking. I maintain that throttle riding defeats the main benefit of the aforementioned type of bike. I understand that some riders feel they get a safer and quicker boost at busy intersections with a throttle, but if your primary riding style is pedal avoidance or effortless pedaling, you'll be happier with a cadence sensing rear hub model. You'll save a lot of money too.

I'll admit that one reason I never use a throttle is that it's just a lazy-ass look on recreational paths, (I'm not referring to practical transportation and commuting) and likely to create more restrictions for e-bikes generally.

A progressive over-riding thumb throttle is a valuable riding tool with MANY uses beyond the ones you mentioned. Combining one with torque-sensing assist makes for a very versatile power delivery system.

The throttle in no way defeats the purpose of torque-sensing assist, regardless of motor location. The 2 motor control methods only complement each other.

Having a throttle on my torque-sensing hub-drive doesn't force me to use it. Mine is on far less than 1% of the time and never in lieu of pedaling — only as a brief boost to the assist. A second or so of throttle is usually all it takes. Wouldn't part with mine nonetheless.

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