Dual Battery Fat Tire Ebike with Bafang Ultra- Your Thoughts?

[mail_e36]

Hi Group,

Recently some 'replicas' of the Bikonit Warthog ($8,000 USD) have come on the ebike market, at a more affordable price.

These are fully integrated dual-battery fat tire ebikes, which usually have entry-level Shimano drivetrains (anywhere from Tourney to Acera).

These are basically budget-friendly versions of the Bikonit Warthog using the same frame, dual built-in batteries for a total of 30 amps, Bafang Ultra 1,000 watt mid-drive (G510 / M620) motor, albeit minus the Internally Geared Hub (IGH) gearset and of course a basic chain instead of belt-drive, a basic (slow, 2A charger) in addition to an air fork (mid-range, if we're being generous) and basic dual piston hydraulic breaks (nothing fancy... bordering on, ahem, 'value' territory).

A specific example is here:

https://www.steamoon.com/dual-battery-ebike-spectre.html

It looks like one has been outfitted for Law Enforcement purposes in the United States:

I am wondering, what are your thoughts on this configuration?

My understanding is that these could be available in the USA via various sources for around $4,000 USD, give or take $500.

For those of us whom cannot fathom spending 8K on an ebike, but like the looks of the original bike, is this bike worth half that cost as a 'replica', or should I wait and save up for the real thing?

(I have no connection to the wholesaler and currently have no clue if their stuff is any good, thus asking the experts here.)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nvreloader]

Drop in at Area 13 ebikes, I think you'll find what you want,

MD1000 Warthog (Shipping Not Included)

Shipping is $200 to the lower 48 states and/or Free if you pick up. MD1000 Warthog Black (Preowned 49 miles) Minor Scratches on paint. Converted from a Sturmey-Archer to a SRAM 11 Speed Derailleur. 1000 watt Ultra Mid Drive Motor. 26"x 4.8" Maxxis tires. 2- 15ah Batteries (30ah total)

area13ebikes.com

Kyle has done me right...........
Hth's
Tia,
Don

 

[m@Robertson]

Dual batteries are vastly inferior to a single, larger battery pack. Been there and done that. Its a major convenience hurdle. If the packs are wired together in parallel it also is not something for the novice to be playing around with, and I would not trust a Chinese manufacturer with doing that job right so there are no issues over time.

 

[mail_e36]

If you could elaborate on your concerns surrounding why you feel a dual battery configuration (OEM setup, from the manufacturer, rather than DYI), please do share your thoughts.

The bike type in question is the Bikonit Warthog (MD750 / HD750 / MD1000), Juggernaut Ultra Beast 2, Etek Hunter, Steamoon Spectre-X and other unbranded look-alikes from the Asia-based 'Leili' supplier... which are basically the same bike from different resellers, and the frame has both batteries integrated. Not entirely sure if the two battery packs are wired in parallel or in sequence, but my gut says that the Chinese manufacturer knows what they were doing with this implementation.

 

[prestoOne]

Making an ebike battery:
Step 1: take thousands and single cells and match them together with other cells of the same impedance, charge etc so they live long and happy lives together.
Steps 2-99 Do something.
Step 100: Do not undo step one by mixing 2 large batteries of different "fitness"

Being 100% truthful though I do not know how the bikes draw power from the 2 batteries. The right way to do it would be to draw from one battery for a bit then draw from the other.
The wrong way would be to hook them up in parallel and draw from both at the same time, maybe battery guy can explain better on his site:

Connecting batteries in parallel – BatteryGuy.com Knowledge Base

 

[rich c]

My feeling is that is the heaviest eBike I can imagine. Why would police want high rolling resistance fat tires?

 

[FiremarshallDave]

Perhaps the bike is in Alaska for snow or in Cali for beach patrol. I can speak from experience a fat tire eats a 20AH battery with a 25A continuous draw for lunch. You need a continuous draw in the 40+ and a burst draw of 50A. Mine would tap out after 5-10 minutes when pedaling if I asked for speed. Police chase bike? I think not. I have seen police bikes used at music festivals and other large gatherings. Adding front wheel weight compromises fine steering control. Take a front basket strap it to the handlebars and start adding weights. 15 seconds later you will understand the physics. The circumstance for two independent drives being necessary would be rare in the extreme. I would run one battery to two hubs with a single control. Again Why would this be needed? I did like the 26" wheel fat tire tadpole (three wheels two in front, one in back and both fronts are drive hubs) used in the arctic. That I get. You could build that for the same money and have an all terrain monster. It would be fun in snow but fenders would be a must. I own 2 tadpoles, one elec one not. Also own 2 fat tires one elec one not. Also have a trek 8700 composite hard tail and an elec 29er. I grew up in a bike shop and build whatever I feel like in the moment. I've built many others for friends and family. My elec Fat tire has a 36AH battery with a 50A BMS. My battery bonk problem went away and it is my favorite ride right now. It did have the 20AH battery by EM3ev when first built. Same 20AH battery in the Tadpole works great with no bonk (tap out).

 

[Nvreloader]

I know that I can ride between 80 > 120 miles on a full charge on my Wart Hog, using Eco1 with 30ah of dual battery's, have tested it several times.
With the new Jugg4 bike, I am in the process of testing it, same route/conditions as the WH, but I have 6.5ah (36.5ah) of battery more than the WH.
I am hoping I can get the same mileage as the WH.
Waiting for all the extra parts to get here for setting up the Jugg 4 bike. ymmv

 

[m@Robertson]

If you could elaborate on your concerns surrounding why you feel a dual battery configuration (OEM setup, from the manufacturer, rather than DYI), please do share your thoughts.

The bike type in question is the Bikonit Warthog (MD750 / HD750 / MD1000), Juggernaut Ultra Beast 2, Etek Hunter, Steamoon Spectre-X and other unbranded look-alikes from the Asia-based 'Leili' supplier... which are basically the same bike from different resellers, and the frame has both batteries integrated. Not entirely sure if the two battery packs are wired in parallel or in sequence,

I have built bikes that do this. Dual battery setups are a Version 1.0 solution that you use when you are either trying to use cheaper off the shelf commercially-viable (smaller) packs to do big jobs, or you don't understand the drawbacks, and have yet to learn them the hard way. I was the latter. I directly parallel'd packs after doing careful builds that matched cell model, cell count, pack construction, BMS model, cycle count and individual cell capacity (which is not to be taken for granted across a production batch of cells).

Charging two packs at once has an added level or risk to it that is only in part relieved with the right hardware. Especially since that hardware (commonly referred to as a battery blender) is a black box whose quality of construction is never open to scrutiny and produced by a market channel well known to cut corners.

One single battery has one single BMS with no intervening gadgets/points of additional failure. One single pack also has a larger single cell count that is much more resistive to sag during use, and much more amenable to higher charge currents (a parallel'd pair of 14S4P's may be a 14S8P on paper, and WILL gain some of the benefits of an 8P pack, like doubling of the current level tolerance, but when push comes to shove you cannot flog it like a true 8P pack with a 60a current limit without consequences).

I stayed away from blenders and did direct parallel'ing, including charging while connected. This was a lot less unsafe than it sounds because I used custom packs with a high level of attention to details. That is not going to happen with an assembly-line in the Far East. When I instead moved to single big batteries, the increased risks and performance compromises disappeared.

Thats the short version.

but my gut says that the Chinese manufacturer knows what they were doing with this implementation.

Given the known issues associated with that market channel, I would think your gut would say exactly the opposite. The only justification for trust would be an intimate knowledge of the individual manufacturer sitting behind the scenes.

 

[mail_e36]

Hi everyone, glad to see this thread is still getting traction.

With the seemingly cooling ebike market in 2023/2024, it'll be interesting to see how much innovation may occur in this dual-battery space.