Does my ideal bike exist already?

[ChrisM]

I've done a little searching through the threads to see if I can find what I'm looking for but decided I needed my own thread, so here goes...

I am looking for an e-bike that meets the following general specifications, and I would say this is in order of priority...

1. has the capacity to carry one child in a rear-mounted child seat (i.e. comes with or can sustain a heavy duty rack)
1. can provide e-assist up a good-sized hill (cause we live on one)
1. has a throttle (my legs aren't what they used to be and I've found it extremely helpful as a rider with a kid in tow in dangerous city conditions)
1. is as lightweight as possible, so I can get it up and down some extremely steep and very tight basement stairs by myself (maybe 35/40 pounds to start with, since I'd be adding on seats, storage, etc)
1. is not as expensive as the really high-end lightweight bikes, cause I just don't have that money to spend unfortunately. less than $2K would be ideal

2. would love assist above 20 miles an hour
2. really want it to be able to accommodate rear panniers AND a child seat - unlike most of the cargo bikes out there
2. would prefer it has one of the handful of name-brand motors that most of my local bikeshops would be willing to work on in a pinch
2. has a step-through version
2. Has reputable parts where it matters (brakes, etc)

There are a LOT of brands out there, and it seems like more every day! I've looked at a number, and it seems like all the features are out there, but I can't quite find the bike that has them all in one. Help me out?

 

[fooferdoggie]

your weight alone will pretty much eliminate any pre built e bike. I thinking finding the right bike and converting it would get you closer.

 

[mrgold35]

Seems like a step thru folding ebike with a built on rear rack checks a lot of boxes. Probably a little more choices in the 20X4 fat tire folding ebike design. Depending on the ebike, you can add a front basket, ebike kid seat/chair, and/or panniers. I also like having a commuter backpack for extra capacity, ease of use, and security for expensive items like a laptop. I'm thinking you could remove the battery and front tire to lower the ebike weight to the +/- 40lbs range to move up/down stairs. I use my throttle on my fat tire ebikes going up a flight of stairs (use both hand brakes going down stairs).

 

[harryS]

They sell your bike in Japan, not here in the USA, but if you need to go 20 mph, buy a second bike and ride it solo for your need for speed.

Amazon.co.jp

Amazon.co.jp

 

[m@Robertson]

You are listing a lot of contradictory things, like big enough to carry a child + panniers, and also light enough to carry up stairs. Additionally, you can forget about 40 lbs. To give you an example of how far off base you are, this bike weighs 39 lbs.

Luna Fixed Stealth Ebike

The most Stealthy bike on the market, with a hidden battery and discreet mid drive motor... this bike looks like an ordinary road bike but packs a big punch.

lunacycle.com

Thats what it takes to get a bike down to your preferred weight. So like I said... forget about that part. BTW I owned one of those Luna bikes for awhile and it was a road bike with very mild assist and very short range.

I think @fooferdoggie is right. The only hope you have of getting close to what you want is to build your own. To that end, a Mongoose Envoy mid-tail can be made to almost get you there. Leave off the wideloaders so you can get it up the stairs. Add your own mid drive motor and upgrade the brakes. The Envoy is almost untouchable as a budget cargo bike that can be spec'd out to climb anything, and its aluminum frame keeps it as light as you can get. And like I said just don't install the wideloaders.

Mongoose Envoy – Chapter 8 (Low Cost Builds)

Introduction: The Mongoose Envoy Project Chapter 1: The Raised Rear Deck Chapter 2: Better Brakes Chapter 3: What Kind of Motor? Chapter 4: Motor Choice Chap…

talesontwowheels.com

 

[indianajo]

My yubabike bodaboda will take panniers plus a child seat. The baling twine I hold the panniers on with does not interfere with the child seat bars. The yuba panniers have a kevlar bar rivited to the back of the pannier which I can easily loop twine through. When I looked to replace them after 6 years, (glued seams failed) nearly every other pannier I looked at had some sort of proprietary clip. When I fall off the bike, I intend the panniers to still be on the bike, not laying in the middle of the I65 overpass.
Weight- 84 lb without panniers tools tire tubes rain gear or water. I suggest you invest in a wall mounted engine crane for next to your basement stairs. Hand crank saves $100, but really there is no reason to lower the bike to the lower floor except to work on it.
Good sized hill? Measurements please? My geared hub motors easily handle 330 lb gross up 15% grades, up to 100' long. I have 3 or 4 grades like that on my weekly commute to summer camp, plus 71 others. 15% is a 7/8" rise on a 6" spirit level. Geared hubs do not handle grades that bog the motor down to 6 mph for an hour or more. They over heat and burn the winding. My route does not overheat a 1000 w 12t motor. However geared hubs are $400 or less and I handle wearout by throwing them away then installing the spare I keep in the garage. Same with the controller, pickups, throttle. My 12t motor would go 22 mph but normal 10t motors that don't climb as will go 25 mph. Kits don't measure the road speed, that is up to you. Complete bikes have to comply with the class 1 or 2 speed limit. Class 3 bikes are banned from most bike paths and rich suburb cities. I ride up to 30 mph downhill but don't expect the motor to drive me over 10 mph for 30 miles with a 840 wh battery.
If I wanted to climb the rockies or sierras, I'd buy a mid drive bike like a giant momentum or a yuba c-something. (yuba has redesigned their website to lock up computers that aren't squeaky new. ) My chain life is 5x what a mid-drive consumes. But I live 2000 miles from nearest such mountian fortunately, and Amtrak will not accept any bike over 50 lb. My conversion cost was $840, compared to $2000 premium for a mid drive stretch frame bike.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Probably not.

 

[PedalUma]

I've done a little searching through the threads to see if I can find what I'm looking for but decided I needed my own thread, so here goes...

I am looking for an e-bike that meets the following general specifications, and I would say this is in order of priority...

1. has the capacity to carry one child in a rear-mounted child seat (i.e. comes with or can sustain a heavy duty rack)
1. can provide e-assist up a good-sized hill (cause we live on one)
1. has a throttle (my legs aren't what they used to be and I've found it extremely helpful as a rider with a kid in tow in dangerous city conditions)
1. is as lightweight as possible, so I can get it up and down some extremely steep and very tight basement stairs by myself (maybe 35/40 pounds to start with, since I'd be adding on seats, storage, etc)
1. is not as expensive as the really high-end lightweight bikes, cause I just don't have that money to spend unfortunately. less than $2K would be ideal

2. would love assist above 20 miles an hour
2. really want it to be able to accommodate rear panniers AND a child seat - unlike most of the cargo bikes out there
2. would prefer it has one of the handful of name-brand motors that most of my local bikeshops would be willing to work on in a pinch
2. has a step-through version
2. Has reputable parts where it matters (brakes, etc)

There are a LOT of brands out there, and it seems like more every day! I've looked at a number, and it seems like all the features are out there, but I can't quite find the bike that has them all in one. Help me out?

Yes. These are very good questions that are clearly put! Thank you for that. I know two bikes you should look at, the Aventon Abound, which comes in three flavors, and the Specialized Globe, which comes in two flavors. The Haze when polished with lemon Pledge will blow you away. Make sure that you test ride the bikes, and purchase only from a local dealer with professional set up and a free follow up tune up after the initial break-in period. I am a well known member and full-time mechanic at Petaluma Motor Wheel, where everyone is treated like a neighbor, because they are all known locals. Cargo moms are the best.

 

[BlackHand]

Everyone has different needs, but I think we would all appreciate a cheap, high quality, lightweight, heavy duty, name brand, fast, powerful ebike. If there were an obvious answer it would have presented itself already.

Agreed that building your own will get closest to what you're after. The closest quality name brand bike I can think of would be something like the Tern Vektron. 48 pounds, so around 42 if you pull the battery. Comes with everything you need but the Thule seat - of course no throttle and closer to $3k instead of $2k.

 

[BlackHand]

Yes. These are very good questions that are clearly put! Thank you for that. I know two bikes you should look at, the Aventon Abound, which comes in three flavors, and the Specialized Globe, which comes in two flavors. The Haze when polished with lemon Pledge will blow you away. Make sure that you test ride the bikes, and purchase only from a local dealer with professional set up and a free follow up tune up after the initial break-in period. I am a well known member and full-time mechanic at Petaluma Motor Wheel, where everyone is treated like a neighbor, because they are all known locals. Cargo moms are the best.

Aren't those bikes all about 30lbs heavier than what OP is looking for? The Haul ST was my first thought, but I looked up its weight and it is chunky!

 

[sc00ter]

This reminds me of the sign above the counter at my local machine shop. Price. Quality. Turnaround Time. Pick any 2.

I agree the Aventon Abound comes very close, as well as a Globe Haul with front Cool Caves.

 

[PedalUma]

The Abounds come in three flavors now. The price is right; just under the 2K mark. The oldest bike in the shop is a $6200 Turn. After riding the Abound, no one wants it. Even if the price were the same! The Globe Haul kicks butt as a kid and stuff hauler. Do not do the 'upgrade' because it will limit it to 20. It stands up-tall to traffic in school zones at 25 for safety as is. And no waiting in line with all the SUV moms spewing Co2. When a huge shouldered broad backed Viking is rowing your boat, do not complain about his weight. What do you want, Peewee rowing your boat instead?

 

[ChrisM]

I appreciate the various suggestions, thank you all, though my take-away is "No, your ideal bike does not exist yet." Sad for me. I do not have the skills to build my own bike. I started with an Aventon Abound, but it is indeed 80 pounds and I cannot move it by myself unless it's being ridden, so storage as a renter is unfortunately impossible. I figured that if I downgraded out of the cargo market I could find something that met my particular needs, but given the comments here, it is perhaps time to give up. Or perhaps time to start asking about racks that accommodate a child seat AND panniers, and then see if I can find a lighter weight e-bike that accommodates that type of rack. But that may be a question for a different forum.

 

[lnanek]

Personally, I have my Topeak child seat and rack in the rear, then attach my panniers to my front rack. So rather than trying to cram everything in the back, I just use the back for the passenger and the front for panniers.

The child seat supports toolless removal, you just push a big red button and slide a yellow plastic bar out to unhook it, so I can also use the rear when the kid is at school or my wife is using the child seat. Her bike has the same quick release compatible rack.

 

[PedalUma]

I appreciate the various suggestions, thank you all, though my take-away is "No, your ideal bike does not exist yet." Sad for me. I do not have the skills to build my own bike. I started with an Aventon Abound, but it is indeed 80 pounds and I cannot move it by myself unless it's being ridden, so storage as a renter is unfortunately impossible. I figured that if I downgraded out of the cargo market I could find something that met my particular needs, but given the comments here, it is perhaps time to give up. Or perhaps time to start asking about racks that accommodate a child seat AND panniers, and then see if I can find a lighter weight e-bike that accommodates that type of rack. But that may be a question for a different forum.

Size is size. Use the bike as a clothing rack when not riding it. These bikes have a walk assist mode for climbing stairs. Or, can you park it in the hall by your door with a good German lock? Are you in NYC or similar with a child? The Abus locks are very nice. Someone with a power tool gave up on one of these locks while trying to get into the bike shop. Do not worry about weight. Think about power. A mom with a throttle can spin the bike around with one foot down as a pivot. A regular bike, not cargo, places the kid against your butt, uncomfortable, and is not very strong for the load, acting like a wet noodle. Go compact cargo. I save $11,000 per year by riding eBikes instead of a car.

 

[PedalUma]

Personally, I have my Topeak child seat and rack in the rear, then attach my panniers to my front rack. So rather than trying to cram everything in the back, I just use the back for the passenger and the front for panniers.

The child seat supports toolless removal, you just push a big red button and slide a yellow plastic bar out to unhook it, so I can also use the rear when the kid is at school or my wife is using the child seat. Her bike has the same quick release compatible rack.

MIPS.

 

[BlackHand]

The Abounds come in three flavors now. The price is right; just under the 2K mark. The oldest bike in the shop is a $6200 Turn. After riding the Abound, no one wants it. Even if the price were the same! The Globe Haul kicks butt as a kid and stuff hauler. Do not do the 'upgrade' because it will limit it to 20. It stands up-tall to traffic in school zones at 25 for safety as is. And no waiting in line with all the SUV moms spewing Co2. When a huge shouldered broad backed Viking is rowing your boat, do not complain about his weight. What do you want, Peewee rowing your boat instead?

View attachment 188997 View attachment 188998

Well sure, you'd rather have the viking rowing your boat. But I'd still rather carry PeeWee up the stairs every day...

On the other hand, if you asked me who I'd rather be stuck in an elevator with: a berserker, claustrophobic Viking with a hatchet or PeeWee Herman I'd probably have to go with the Viking!

 

[ChrisM]

You are listing a lot of contradictory things, like big enough to carry a child + panniers, and also light enough to carry up stairs. Additionally, you can forget about 40 lbs. To give you an example of how far off base you are, this bike weighs 39 lbs.

Luna Fixed Stealth Ebike

The most Stealthy bike on the market, with a hidden battery and discreet mid drive motor... this bike looks like an ordinary road bike but packs a big punch.

lunacycle.com

Thats what it takes to get a bike down to your preferred weight. So like I said... forget about that part. BTW I owned one of those Luna bikes for awhile and it was a road bike with very mild assist and very short range.

I think @fooferdoggie is right. The only hope you have of getting close to what you want is to build your own. To that end, a Mongoose Envoy mid-tail can be made to almost get you there. Leave off the wideloaders so you can get it up the stairs. Add your own mid drive motor and upgrade the brakes. The Envoy is almost untouchable as a budget cargo bike that can be spec'd out to climb anything, and its aluminum frame keeps it as light as you can get. And like I said just don't install the wideloaders.

Mongoose Envoy – Chapter 8 (Low Cost Builds)

Introduction: The Mongoose Envoy Project Chapter 1: The Raised Rear Deck Chapter 2: Better Brakes Chapter 3: What Kind of Motor? Chapter 4: Motor Choice Chap…

talesontwowheels.com

Could I not add a heavy duty rack to that bike? I read it through and it does not have the power I would hope for, but if it was that light maybe I could power it up my hill.

 

[ChrisM]

Personally, I have my Topeak child seat and rack in the rear, then attach my panniers to my front rack. So rather than trying to cram everything in the back, I just use the back for the passenger and the front for panniers.

The child seat supports toolless removal, you just push a big red button and slide a yellow plastic bar out to unhook it, so I can also use the rear when the kid is at school or my wife is using the child seat. Her bike has the same quick release compatible rack.

Interesting. I hadn't thought about front panniers. I generally dislike a front carrying system, but I may need to move in this direction. What bike are you using?

 

[indianajo]

The yuba, the giant, and the blix stretch cargo bikes have bosses welded in the frame at the front to carry loads in a rack that does not steer. Yuba sells a basket for that position. You see in the avatar, I have my battery mounted up there in front. It is such a PITB to get the bolts out, battery is difficult to steal. Takes a nail puller to yank the bolts out, not a common bike theif tool.
In a previous conversion, I had a 13 lb battery mounted from the handlebars and the fender strut holes. Made the bike so difficult to steer at 3 mph I had to push it down my rutted grass driveway instead of ride. 800 yard driveway.