Do you use more than one battery on your rides?

[6zfshdb]

I am not happy that my e-bike has no welded on nuts to install bottle cages.

I've had good luck with these:

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

And:

Amazon.com

 

[Luv2ride]

I always ride with two extra 500 Wh batteries in my bag. My rides are usually about 40 miles with average speeds of 16-20 mph and generally 2-3000 feet of climbing.
Two batteries are usually enough but sometimes I use the 3rd on longer rides. I almost never use eco and make liberal use of sport and turbo modes.
https://www.strava.com/athlete/training

 

[john peck]

I have modified a rack with a plywood shelf to carry a second battery, Cheap & very functional, extends my range to about 70 mi.
There is a padded foam sheath that protects the connector & holds it in place, also padded at the forward end.

 

[CdnShaun]

I've seen some R&M fans of dual battery capacity, and some Trek models have the ability to use dual batteries as well. I'm sure there are other brands as well.

I have been wondering, who uses more than one battery, either in dual configuration or just carrying an extra one in a bag with them while they ride.

If you use more than one battery on your rides I'm curious to know what distance you're travelling, average speed, elevation, etc .......

I'm curious because with my Creo I consistently use around 2 wh/km, implying a range of roughly 160 km's. Recently a friend rode my Juiced CCS on a ride with us and we travelled 86 km's with 950 metres of elevation gain. The battery had 2 bars left when we got home.

So it got me curious who uses a range extender, or an extra battery and what are the specifics on your use.

2 wh/km?? Wow Captain thoroughly impressed!!

My best ride this year on my most efficient setup was a flat (rail trail) ride with a non-e riding friend. We did 101kms, average speed close to yours of 20-22kmph. I'm 270lbs of rider on top as a worthy side note. As it was Bionx equipment my calculations are estimates but I almost made it on a single 557wh battery, finished off around 650wh or 6.5wh/km for that distance/speed and type of rider I am.

I have a special build I'm nearly finish and had some great first rides on. It's a monster of a build (I blame being stuck at home due to COVID, lol) that may be the largest capacity setup discussed in this thread. 7,200wh when all 6 batteries are installed. 18-22wh/km with an average speed of 35-42kmph. Estimated 320-350km range with elevation changes, further if mostly flat.

Yes, it's ridiculous. I built it to go anywhere and all day riding. I maintain a 125-150bpm heart rate and only ever use the throttle if I'm having issue or need to get home and no energy left in the legs (hasn't happen yet thankfully).

Cheers

 

[CdnShaun]

I think a small trailer would be quite useful for grocery getting and other small errands. What do you like about the Burley relative to other trailers?

Burley trailers are awesome. I have a Burley COHO XC in line trailer. Here's what I can share about it and why I love it:

-Use of 'Burley Ballz' (confirm your bike is compatible with this setup before considering this type of trailer, all of my bikes with rear hub motors are 10mm nuts that these balls simply replace) and compatible with 135mm to 190mm rear axles means for each set of $30 extra Burley Ballz I can use the trailer with any bike I have, share the trailer with others, etc.

-23lbs empty.

-Comes with a double leg kickstand. Handy for when it's free standing (keeps the front up off the ground and if your bike does not have a kick stand, it will hold your bike (including up to a 50lb ebike I can attest to) up as well, a little bonus for sure.

-Tracks beautifully. Single wheel behind you follows your movements perfectly. Turning is a bit wider than usual but nothing serious.

-Load: I have found for me a 40-45lb load works fine, no rear panniers (worth noting). Beyond 45lbs is possible, whether in trailer or panniers, but for me it caused the front wheel to 'lift' enough to make steering a bit sketchy - I tested at 60lbs in the trailer and spread between trailer and pannier's - same effect. This here is important when considering single wheel that leverages against the rear of the bike versus 2 wheeled trailer models that can take more weight as the bike is only 'pulling' it forward more so than holding the weight up as well.

-Speed: The trade off of a single wheel versus 2 wheel other than the tracking (around pot holes is especially important) is the speed you can cruise along at - is what research told me. With my trailer I cruise at 35kmph with 45lb payload with no issues. Gone as fast as 50kmph+ downhill with the 45lb payload and just started the feel the front wheel get a little 'light' - I leaned forward to put more weight over the front and was back to 100% control.

-Price - not cheap. Fully raise my hand on this one. My thinking last year that has proven correct is I would never want more than 40lb payload and with the Burley Ballz design it will work with any bike I own now and well into the future. The 3" fat tire option you can purchase (replacing the 2" stock model it comes with) rides great on pavement, so much so I leave it on full time - can go on pavement, dirt trails and even rougher single track.

I didn't go with the 'Burley Bag' that perfectly fits within it this year...as I found a storage container (Rubbermaid model) that fits really well and I just strapped it in with the bonus of being weather proof.

Ebikes with Trailers rock...is all I can say and thankful to have my setup this year, hoping others who might need more than panniers can carry will find a trailer that works for them.

 

[CdnShaun]

For those who are using 2 and 3 batteries per ride, you must be going awfully fast. What's your average speed? 35 km/hr?

35-42kmph is my cruising speed on my silly big bike with 6 batteries...but I could be the exception to the rule.

Longest ride so far this year was 190kms (118 miles) and I still had 2800wh of capacity left. My goal is to come as close as I can to 250kms (155miles) in a single ride before this winter.

 

[Captain Slow]

Wow Shaun, that is quite a bike! Can you post some pictures, I'd love to see what it looks like. I've never come close to 250 km's in a day and I likely never will.

As for my efficiency, the Creo is known for having an efficient motor. That and I have become a significantly stronger rider over the last number of years.

About a decade ago I hit a high of 195 lbs. as I had stopped exercising as I had been spending lots of time with young kids. I knew I had get active. Commuting to work by bike was the most time efficient way to do it.

Got an electric bike, lots of riding this year, and dietary changes have resulted in significant benefits. I weighed myself this morning on my Garmin scale, I was 155.6 lbs and the body fat reading was 14.57% (though these readings are known to only be ballpark and not the most accurate).

It all started with an electric bike. My story is similar to so many others.

 

[theloafer]

dual battery supercharger gx rohloff ... longest ride so far has been 109 miles and 7,010 ft https://www.strava.com/activities/34555

 

[theemartymac]

I tend to carry a second battery in my pannier for my Ultra bike, just because I DO NOT want to pedal this monster unpowered. The Ultra mid drive creates a lot of drag unpowered. I do usually get my rides in on one battery, but in cold weather I can run low on my long commute (45km return) and need the second.

My 750 Geared Hub bike is much more forgiving when the battery gets low, so I don't usually bother with the extra.

I am planning to mount a second Reention Dorado battery tray with lock to the top of my rear rack on the Ultra (I use panniers for cargo), so I can just leave it locked in place until needed. The pannier is not secure, so I don't like leaving it even briefly. I might also try to wire in a splitter with a switch once the warranty expires...

 

[Headdamage]

I have two 10.5ah batteries on my bike and I run them in parallel due to them being 15amp rated and I'm using them with a 30amp rated controller.

 

[ElevenAD]

often!

 

[ElevenAD]

I tend to carry a second battery in my pannier for my Ultra bike, just because I DO NOT want to pedal this monster unpowered. The Ultra mid drive creates a lot of drag unpowered. I do usually get my rides in on one battery, but in cold weather I can run low on my long commute (45km return) and need the second.

My 750 Geared Hub bike is much more forgiving when the battery gets low, so I don't usually bother with the extra.

I am planning to mount a second Reention Dorado battery tray with lock to the top of my rear rack on the Ultra (I use panniers for cargo), so I can just leave it locked in place until needed. The pannier is not secure, so I don't like leaving it even briefly. I might also try to wire in a splitter with a switch once the warranty expires...

keep us posted on how it works out!

 

[ruffruff]

I don't have the option on my eMTB battery is built into the down tube.

 

[carsonjones]

I often ride with two batteries when I'm out on longer ride days. I average 100 km w/ 1000 m of elevation per battery. Riding a Cannondale Synapse Neo and carry the second battery in a half frame bag. I'm aiming to do a 160 km ride in the next month or so. Longest to date on this bike is 122 km (still had lots of charge on the second battery).

 

[WilliamT]

I also ride with 2 batteries on my Radwagon, one to control each motor. The front geared motor was to give me the climbing ability that my rear direct drive couldn't do.

The front motor uses a 17 ah battery (884 watts), and the rear uses a 28 ah battery (1456 watts). I've gone 125 miles with this setup while carrying plenty of water (usually carry 128 oz), couple bags of food, tub of hand wipes, additional clothing, variable length zip ties, and all the tools needed to fix flats on both wheels. I also carry spare 700c tubes, along with my 26 inch tubes, in case I see stranded cyclists.

The 17ah battery sits in one of my cargo bags that is held in place using 2 ladder straps bolted to the wooden platforms with padding in between so the battery doesn't get thrown around when I'm going through rough terrain (rivers, tree roots, rough ice, etc.)

I could probably carry a 3rd battery in the other bag if I needed to go farther. The weight is distributed low so handling is good.

 

[AHicks]

My butt has a range of 20 miles or so, maybe a little more if I'm having a good time on a nice day. I've found that on average that's about half of what my battery is able to do, so no point carrying the extra weight of a second battery here....

 

[CdnShaun]

Great seeing this thread having new posts. I smiled remembering how little Wh per km the author Captain Slow requires (proud of your Captain) compared to the setup I enjoy riding.

Soon as our weather here in Ontario gets above 20C (riding my trail bikes for now to get back on the saddle during the colder days) I'm eager to get out on my silly overbuilt cargo bike to see how far my legs and butt can manage to keep up with the 7,200Wh capacity I have installed.

Next week I will hopefully find the time to finally wire the batteries in parallel. It's the final step I have planned for the bike other than Tannus liners when they finally show up. I'm quite happy stopping every 100kms or so to swap battery leads right now. Putting the batteries in parallel is more so to allow up to 60Amp of Regen braking of the rear hub motor to save the wear on the disc brakes as a whole - why not right?

Here's a photo of my 2020 Surly Big Dummy cargo bike, custom wood frame I built myself and 4 of the 6 batteries installed: (you will see 2 of the large flat hard shell batteries on the right side with the large zip tie added to hold them in place)

4 batteries give me a 220km range with significant elevation changes. 6 batteries will give me 300-350km range depending on elevation and if I decide to bring the trailer with camping gear for the weekend.

Hope everyone is ready for another great summer of riding!

Cheers
Shaun

 

[Captain Slow]

Wow, what a setup! I'm amazed at how you ride that bike with everything piled on it, must be difficult to handle and requires quite a lot of riding skill to keep the bike balanced.

Shaun, I'm also in awe of your talent for building these bikes. I wish we lived in the same city. Living right beside Vancouver I'm so tempted to buy a GMAC kit from Grin and build a nice cargo hauler, but I'm worried I'll mess it up because I've never been that handy. I do minor maintenance on my bikes, but anything significant, I hire someone.

 

[CdnShaun]

Wow, what a setup! I'm amazed at how you ride that bike with everything piled on it, must be difficult to handle and requires quite a lot of riding skill to keep the bike balanced.

Shaun, I'm also in awe of your talent for building these bikes. I wish we lived in the same city. Living right beside Vancouver I'm so tempted to buy a GMAC kit from Grin and build a nice cargo hauler, but I'm worried I'll mess it up because I've never been that handy. I do minor maintenance on my bikes, but anything significant, I hire someone.

Thank you Captain, hearing these words from you are inspiration. Your 2 Wh/km has never left my thoughts when I'm out riding. My beast above uses 18-22Wh/Km which is why I have a 300-350km range with it....

What I have done, I realized after...is built a combination of an electric scooter and stationary bike into one. This allows me to control the 'human input' and keep my heart rate in a safe/effective 125-150bpm range, enjoying the 30-45kmph 'air cooling' effect, all while still having the control of the speed through the torque I push through the pedals.

I get the control of the experience (as I continue to work through my weight loss journey) so I fear no hill or going too far from home like I would on a stationary bike...but outdoors touring the province.

Long term even when I get to my most fit some day I still see enjoying the long rides with the trailer behind me filled with camping gear, enjoying the exercise while going out for the weekend versus just driving there.


As for handling the bike...yeah...it's heavy. But it's balanced really well. I do feel a bit of difference if I remove 2 or even 4 of the batteries...but only slightly incremental. I also have the advantage of being so heavy myself to shift my weight around 'up top' to steer it I suppose?

Basically it rides much like a 100cc scooter with bigger tires. I have rented such scooters when I have travelled internationally. At speed it just cruises along and keeps itself quite upright...even quick moves around road hazards are fine.

The only time I really ever feel the 'weight' is feet on the ground walking it through a section and needing to turn - I have to concentrate on keeping the weight upright then.

Pushing off from stop I often just hit the throttle with my thumb to get up to 5-10kmph and then start pedaling. This also lets me leave my rear shifter in the smaller gears I typically cruise along in if I so choose.

I will add photos this summer when the build is complete and the camping trailer has been fully tested out/loaded up - if our province opens up camp grounds this year, fingers crossed.

Yes Captain, it would be awesome to meet up and ride with you. Your 2Wh/Km with my 20Wh/Km side by side. If I ever make it to BC with one of my bikes I will let you know!

 

[CdnShaun]

Shaun, I'm also in awe of your talent for building these bikes. I wish we lived in the same city. Living right beside Vancouver I'm so tempted to buy a GMAC kit from Grin and build a nice cargo hauler, but I'm worried I'll mess it up because I've never been that handy. I do minor maintenance on my bikes, but anything significant, I hire someone.

Captain, if I may...

I'm 100% self taught. My day job is computer work so my only experience with tools was building computer towers and screwing monitor mounts on basically.

Converting a bike of your choice using Grin supplied parts is actually quite easy.

The hardest parts are:
-Choosing the right donor bike for the project first (trial and error taught me well, now I help others in their decision making)
-Bottom Bracket swap for a torque sensing PAS
-Fighting your OCD when zip tying the wires externally to the frame.

Grin sells the motor of your choice installed in a rim matching the bike you are converting for the same cost/lower cost then having your LBS do it for you or heaven forbid trying to do it yourself.

The first time I attempted to do a bottom bracket swap I realized I didn't have all the proper tools I needed so I had my LBS do that install for a reasonable fee. I have since bought the $50 worth of tools you need from Amazon to do it myself.

Bottom bracket aside, the only tools you need are your standard Allen keys and a socket set.

-Grin's motors connect to their controllers
-Grin's controllers directly connect to their CA3 bike computers
-Accessories like brake handles and the PAS you choose (rotational or torque sensing) all just plug and play.
If you source your batteries from Grin then they too are just plug and play with Anderson 45 connectors.

As you can understand now, with a LBS to do your bottom bracket and everything ordered from Grin leaves you with just needing the same basic tools you use on an acoustic bike already.

With a bottom bracket done I can convert a bike to electric with Grin parts in just a few hours. That includes setting up the controller with the laptop (10 minutes) and CA3 (10 minutes).

For me, the only parts I do not order from Grin is batteries. I source my batteries from EM3EV out of china to get higher Wh capacity choices and price her Wh. This lead me to learning about proper wiring techniques and all I can say is 'Self soldering butt connectors are a life saver' - lol.

Here is my next project I'm just starting. I previously converted this donor bike using a Bionx D500 setup. I added pannier bags and was carrying 4 additional (2 per side) of the Bionx 11.6Ah 48V batteries. I had 10-12 great rides on it, rotating through the 5 batteries every 60-90 minutes, reaching 163kms as my longest ride.

Sadly, a $0.02 screw and a rough bump caused the loaded down pannier to break free and break 6 spokes in my rear wheel. Thankfully a gent near the path was happy to give me a ride to my car to then collect my bike and return home. Lessons learned all the way around.

Now going with Grin parts, I have a pre-built 9C RH212 motor in a 700C rim, phaserunner controller, CA3 computer, ebrake adapter, throttle, multifunction controller and torque sensing bottom bracket PAS.

I will test fit the rear wheel and then tackle the bottom bracket/chain ring rebuild. That's the only hard part. After that I will just install the parts, solder up the battery mount connections to the controller and zip tie everything.

I have a new trunk rack for the rear, this time it clamps to the A frame of the rear wheel and seat post. No more $0.02 screws. Going with a compatible top trunk and pannier bags, I will carry only 1 battery per side this time.

I already own from another project 3 High Amp (55 Amp max draw for a 2WD setup) downtube batteries from EM3EV with 14.3Ah (1) and 12.3Ah (2) that will provide me 39Ah of capacity at 52V. I estimate with this better setup then the Bionx and slightly larger Ah batteries I will have around a 120-140km range with my fitness level.

If I was buying new batteries from EM3EV, they have 17Ah downtube batteries of the same case size (34 Amp max draw, fine for a single motor setup) which would be a whopping 51Ah capacity over 3 batteries.

Captain - 51Ah is 2570Wh....so at your 2-3Wh per Km riding level you could go...oh....1,000kms?

I suspect a fit rider like you Captain on my 'medium heavy' bike build would be around 10Wh/Km and could reach 250km range with only 3 batteries. My cargo bike build does use about 30% of the battery capacity to offset the weight of the bike (and the batteries themselves) over all for sure...the 'loss' of going heavier with all batteries versus trying to make a solar setup work.

As you can relate, building a bike with a 150KM range like I am - that weighs 50lbs without the batteries/rear trunk rack and can be carried by my car's hitch mount bike carrier, is the perfect mid-range bike for me to have out riding with my most fit of friends who do 100-150kms acoustic (proud of them) and then if I want to go further, I switch to the cargo bike...

...and the utility trailer I need to transport it.

Back to the bike build - noting you had a Bionx in your past my friend you can relate to how most of the conversion of a donor bike is quite simple with basic tools and skills. Bionx had the torque sensing PAS built into the motor as you know so that is where I had to learn about bottom bracket torque sensing PAS, but a LBS will swap yours for you (if you ever did a project like this) for just a small service fee I have found...the rest you could do yourself if you wanted to.

...and final note - while I have learned a ton about amazing OEM bikes here on EBR...even test rode a bunch of them to see...it has taught me I really do love choosing my donor bike of choice, RWD or 2WD setup of choice and battery/batteries to meet my riding needs and fitness level.

Here's a pic of the bike I'm building with Grin parts when it was a Bionx setup. 4 extra batteries tucked in those panniers and 4 extra bottles of fluids in the top:

My next thread I will post here will be the build of this same bike but with the Grin supplied parts and EM3EV batteries.

Captain, if you ever want to pull the trigger on a Grin build - I'm just a PM away.

Thanks for reading
Shaun