Do I need an eMTB?

[SleepyBob]

Full disclosure, I'm not a biker (yet). We just moved to a Utah community in the mountains and there are tons of trails in the area for biking and/or hiking. I've been going on walks, but I don't get too far away from houses before I need to turn back, so I thought about getting an e-bike to get further afield and enjoy the area. Most of the trails are single-bike dirt paths (generally a foot wide or so) with some rocks and bumps thrown in.

I've been googling for a few days and I'm struggling to figure out what I even need:

1. I just want to be able to explore, and still survive the uphill ride home. I don't plan to be doing jumps or off-trail riding.

2. Some/most/all (still researching this) of the local trails are restricted to class 1 e-bikes. But all the bikes I seem to look at in the <$2000 price range are class 2 or 3. When I've managed to find class 1 e-MTBs, they are all in the $3,000-$10,000, which is way out of my price range.

4. The other class 1 bikes I find in my price range look like they don't have suspension, so they wouldn't be good off-road, right?

5. Are 20" wheels pretty much the only way to go here? If I had an e-bike, I'm guessing I would end up an even split between trail riding and paved roads, so it seems bigger wheels would be better. My only past biking experience is with a traditional "10-speed Schwinn", so the idea of riding around on a bike with such small tires seems off to me. But maybe that's something I just need to get over.

Thoughts/suggestions?

 

[m@Robertson]

Well, smaller wheels give you a torque advantage versus bigger ones. So that means a less-expensive hub motor is more likely to be adequate for your needs. 20" fat tires are pretty common, and this is so in large part because inexperienced riders like the solidity of the ride, as well as the bit of loft they get from the tire volume. A poor man's suspension (its not, but you're going to hear that from people).

If you have a hardtail frame, you can add a lot of comfort with a suspension seatpost. Consider doing that as an upgrade down the road as one that is halfway decent - in particular the Thudbuster is an excellent value - will run you about $150. Further, if you don't get a bike with a suspension fork, you can add one for another couple of hundred bucks. Those two changes will make a very comfortable bike for light to medium trails.

Don't get hung up on the issue of Class 1 that you are faced with. In the USA, where bikes tend to be recreational and high prices are nowhere near as acceptable as say the EU where they are more regarded as essential transportation, you're going to find direct-to-consumer ebikes in the low cost range all have throttles. Ask around and see if your local land managers/cops/rangers are ok with you just not using the throttle and pedaling. Chances are pretty good that nobody is all that worried about it, and rule enforcement is more about correcting bad behavior than it is nitpicking details like whether a throttle is on the handlebars, but you need to be sure thats the case in your area. Also be aware that if you run into Ken or Karen on the trail they may have kittens if they see a throttle so be mindful of the fact you really do need to be pedaling and slow/courteous when around others.

Also bear in mind that an ebike under $2000 with full suspension is using junk parts. Spend the 2 grand on a bike that has no suspension. Then add an AIR fork (not a spring fork) and suspension seatpost yourself so you know you are using decent parts.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When I've managed to find class 1 e-MTBs, they are all in the $3,000-$10,000, which is way out of my price range.

You cannot have good things free. Your description clearly reads "a good full suspension e-MTB is necessary" and not only that. You need skill to ride rocky singletrack.

 

[indianajo]

I wouldn't ride 20" wheels, they are vile through potholes. 26" or bigger. Off road you want 1.75" cross section or bigger, no 31 mm road bike tires. Fat tires, 4" up are low pressure, required on powder snow & sand, waste of energy on other surfaces. Fat tires steer badly too, people report. I ride 2.1"x26" knobbies on road or on the grass of my summer camp. But my legs are short; taller people prefer 27" or bigger wheels.
<$2000 bikes have imitation steel spokes, cables, imitation aluminum wheels, require a lot of adjustments. Real steel bikes come from trek giant momentum specialized yamaha cannondale orbea gazelle yuba(mine shown in avatar).
2.4" tires may not need suspension if ridden at 40 psi, but if you are going to go fast off road, yes you want a suspension. I go about 8 mph, 9 in the fall, on hard frame. Good suspension adds ~$1000 to price of a bike.
I'll let you cruise cort's reviews for a class 1 mtb. I have no expertise, I ride mostly on road and use 1000 W to power up 12% hills with 80 lb groceries or ag supplies at 8 mph average. I will take my hard frame cargo bike on gravel through construction zones, or grass when I dive off the road to avoid a timid driver hugging the white stripe.
Personally I don't like the straight handlebars of MTB's. Puts my hands to sleep. You may not be age 73. I ride cruiser bars, turned back at the ends.
Happy shopping and later riding.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I run a Giant Stance E+2 which is a mid/entry level dual suspension emtb.
It is Giant's entry level emtb.
I use it as a sort of SUV... kind of good for anything but not great.
It's an awesome reliable bike. It is over 4k price wise.
There's your starting point.

 

[gromike]

I'm a big fan of twenty-some-years-old 26 inch 2+ inch wheeled full suspension mountain bikes for converting to an ebike. Hub motor or mid-drive, they all work on those frames. You might even be able to put a battery on the downtube. This has worked great for me on road bikes. My motto is, that if you are going as fast as a motorbike you need full-suspension. Modern Mtb's have gotten so extremely specialized that i would steer away from those.

 

[Chargeride]

Swings and roundabouts, hub drive 20s give awesome climbing torque and are safer and easier to control for beginners who are keeping it slow.
They dont ride out of ruts very well or roll over gaps and rocks.
But thats just how you feel about the fun you are having, full mtb with 29s fly along, but do you want to?
That fall or tree hit will be so much worse and in really technical climbs, small wheels and bike are better.

 

[Taylor57]

Full disclosure, I'm not a biker (yet). We just moved to a Utah community in the mountains and there are tons of trails in the area for biking and/or hiking. I've been going on walks, but I don't get too far away from houses before I need to turn back, so I thought about getting an e-bike to get further afield and enjoy the area. Most of the trails are single-bike dirt paths (generally a foot wide or so) with some rocks and bumps thrown in.

I've been googling for a few days and I'm struggling to figure out what I even need:

1. I just want to be able to explore, and still survive the uphill ride home. I don't plan to be doing jumps or off-trail riding.

2. Some/most/all (still researching this) of the local trails are restricted to class 1 e-bikes. But all the bikes I seem to look at in the <$2000 price range are class 2 or 3. When I've managed to find class 1 e-MTBs, they are all in the $3,000-$10,000, which is way out of my price range.

4. The other class 1 bikes I find in my price range look like they don't have suspension, so they wouldn't be good off-road, right?

5. Are 20" wheels pretty much the only way to go here? If I had an e-bike, I'm guessing I would end up an even split between trail riding and paved roads, so it seems bigger wheels would be better. My only past biking experience is with a traditional "10-speed Schwinn", so the idea of riding around on a bike with such small tires seems off to me. But maybe that's something I just need to get over.

Thoughts/suggestions?

How old, what size and how athletic are you? Much will depend on those questions...

 

[JRA]

"but I don't get too far away from houses before I need to turn back, so I thought about getting an e-bike to get further afield and enjoy the area."

I try to never ride any further from home/vehicle than I feel I can walk back to civilization in case of a breakdown. I have used that option more than once but you can coast downhills if your tires are holding air. In other words a bicycle can expand your territory beyond your abilities so no matter what you end up with keep that in mind?

 

[SleepyBob]

Thanks, lots of good things to consider.

You cannot have good things free. Your description clearly reads "a good full suspension e-MTB is necessary" and not only that. You need skill to ride rocky singletrack.

Sure. But if we are talking $4,000 or nothing, it's going to be nothing. It's possible I should look at a non-electric first and see how I like biking in general. I definitely enjoyed the couple times recently I've gone out on paved trails (both e-bike and 10 speed city bikes, not mountain biking), but that's not the terrain I have locally.

How old, what size and how athletic are you? Much will depend on those questions...

I'm 51, I used to do a lot of running, but a few injuries and health issues have left me 20 pounds overweight and more a walker than a runner. I try to be active, but mowing a large lawn is about as intense as I usually get nowadays.

I try to never ride any further from home/vehicle than I feel I can walk back to civilization in case of a breakdown.

Good point, for the most part there's civilization at the top and bottom of the mountain, so worst case I'll be walking downhill a couple extra miles and calling for a ride.

 

[PedalUma]

Opps. I was looking for bikes that would be good in your conditions and came across this.

 

[SleepyBob]

I run a Giant Stance E+2 which is a mid/entry level dual suspension emtb.
It is Giant's entry level emtb.
I use it as a sort of SUV... kind of good for anything but not great.
It's an awesome reliable bike. It is over 4k price wise.
There's your starting point.

Thanks - I think this is what I imagined when I first started thinking about an ebike.

What about the Talon E+ 3 for a beginner? (And then someone mentioned upgrading the fork later?) $2300 might be in the ballpark of what I could look at.

 

[Taylor57]

It doesn't sound like you need dual suspension. Go ride the Talon and if you like it, add a suspension seat post and you are in business....

 

[PDoz]

Draw a ven diagram with cost, comfort, and capability. Put it on a wall, then throw a dart . Because the truth is, you're going to need to sacrifice at least one.

Personally, I'd go looking for a non motorised hard tail mountain bike. Something light enough to learn on yet safe enough you'll get back out there. Walk it up harder hills . Enjoy the simplicity and not having to worry about complicated electronics. The hard choice is do you buy something new and discounted - ie with warranty / low repair costs for the next couple of years. Or do you buy an older bike that can later be converted to electric ? That really comes down to your mechanical and electrical skills. Bigger wheels roll better and are more forgiving. So if you accept the bike is a temporary transition device, go for a 29" hard tail with reasonable brakes . Invest in decent - at your price point, go talk to a giant dealer about an unpowered talon.

But whilst there, ride something like an electric talon / trance first. If your knees decide the cost / complexity is justified then it's time to ask your back who is boss . A dual suspension is more comfortable, but heavier and more complex. Arguably harder to learn skills on - weight plus , well, you don't need to learn to bunny hop if you can plow through obstacles.... Try lifting that bike up before you buy it - because untill you have the skills, you're going to need to be lifting it over obstacles.

DO NOT buy that bike until you have gone home and thought about it. The first taste of an emtb is highly addictive. But it's worth sitting back and comparing options - both specialized and giant have discounts on last years models. You can't go wrong with either, but it's still smarter to buy a non motorized hardtail first. Enjoy that estance.

 

[PDoz]

Ps you don't need full suspension if you have skill...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It has been a mystery to me why he chose to become a Santa Cruz Heckler endorser...

PDoz, have you heard of Mondraker e-MTBs? I ask for a friend in Norway, honestly.

 

[keithj69]

Do some research on the trails you would like to ride. By research: hang around the areas you want to ride and see what ebikes are around. Use trailfork, ridewithgps, local Google reviews, local Facebook e-mtb groups to see what people are saying.
There are places around me that state class 1 only bikes, but after reading up on the local e-mtb groups I have found a couple of riders riding a similar class 3 ebikes on the "class 1" trails only.
We can recommend all day our thoughts of what bike to buy. But most of us cannot tell you what is going on in your community.
I have a buddy that takes a lectric 1.0 on some stupid stuff I would never ride. But I am in Florida where "mountains" are some peoples driveways.
In the end, look at something with a front suspension fork, a hardtail and a suspension seatpost. You do not sound like you are going to be doing downhill racing. Talk to the local shops also around you. It may be better for you to come in with some bikes you are interested in and ask from there. At least that way you can narrow down the opinion around here and make it fit for a better answer.

 

[m@Robertson]

Sure. But if we are talking $4,000 or nothing, it's going to be nothing.

There are a couple of different ways for a noob to approach this, decisionwise.

1. Buy Once. Cry Once.
Using this approach, you spend the big money in advance, because of what you're going to read in Strategy #2. This is partly why you see people want you to spend a lot of money up front. Because its very likely you will buy a cheap bike, love the experience, realize the potential and finally figure out the bike is not all that great. Then you go buy the bike others recommended in the first place.

2. Buy Less and Wait/See (a.k.a. take a gateway drug)
This approach means you do the best you can on the budget you are willing to spend. Where you get burned is when you realize how cheap the bike is, and what it could be capable of if you had spent more on it. Often this means you will incrementally upgrade bits on the bike to overcome this or that limitation (seatpost, fork, saddle etc.) and in the end you may spend as much or more as you would if you had bought the better bike in the first place. However, going this route allows you to upgrade incrementally so your budget doesn't take a massive hit in one go. You also will gain the opportunity to ride and learn on your own whats good, bad or a silly waste of money. Your follow on purchases will be more informed as a result.

My first ebike cost me $750 delivered. I got 4000 miles out of it in its second year, when I cracked the frame (probably 6000 total). I upgraded the snot out of it and regret no part of that learning experience (the upgrades were not why the frame cracked). The bikes that came afterwards were dramatically different thanks to that gained experience.

If you have the money to spend, go Option 1. If not, go Option 2, ride and be happy. Let the future take care of itself.

 

[TrevorB]

Giant Talon E+ 3

THE TRAIL IS CALLING, AND HERE’S YOUR ANSWER. THIS BALANCED, SMOOTH-RIDING E-BIKE GIVES YOU A SMOOTH BOOST OF POWER AND TOTAL CONTROL, SO YOU CAN HAVE MORE FUN AND EXPAND YOUR OFF-ROAD RIDING...

www.bikesale.com

This is Giant HT eMtb is as cheaper deal as I could find for quality entry level bike. For exploring forestry roads and bit fun on smoother MTB tracks. Some markets have chinese Microshift 9spd which is plus as it has 11-42t cassette. That 42t granning gear makes quite difference on steep climbs compared to 36t on most 9spds.

In regards to wheel sizes for MTBing. There is reason modern MTBs use 27.5 or 29" wheels, bigger diameter smoother ride, its just physics. Do a bit of research youtube to understand why.

If on budget why not look at used bikes.

 

[PedalUma]

As mention earlier by someone, there is always the conversion route. Just take a good bike, maybe used, and add a battery, display, and motor. Of several upsides, one is that it is modular and not proprietary. The ridding experience can be comparable to higher-end bikes. I saw one today with wires twisted around the down tube. It does not have to be like that. @m@Robertson makes beautiful custom bikes. There could be someone local who does this in your area. One popular supplier is in Salt Lake, you might look them up and ask. Larger wheels do take longer to spin up to speed, but then they serve as flywheel gyros for stability, and as mentioned provide a smooth ride.