Do 2020 models use the new Yamaha Drives?

[jsyn]

I've read here on this forum that Giant's motors (dubbed "Sport" and "Pro") are really just rebranded (and with their own custom firmware) Yamaha PW-SE (for the Sport model) and Yamaha PW-X (for the Pro model) motors.

For 2020 Yamaha updated those motors. They replaced the PW-SE with the newer PW-ST, and replaced the PW-X with the newer PW-X2. Anyone know if the 2020 Giant models (such as the Stance E+ 2) are using these newer Yamaha motors, or are they still using the older models?

 

[FlatSix911]

Good question... a few EBR members are in the bike business and should be able to confirm.

New Yamaha 2020 ebike motors – PW-X2 and our first ride impressions

For model year 2020, the Japanese brand introduces the new Yamaha PW-X2 eMTB motor, aiming to set a new performance benchmark. We have all the key information about the new PW-X2 here, our exclusive first ride impressions and more! The new Yamaha PW-X2 motor is based on the same hardware as the...

ebike-mtb.com

 

[PDoz]

I scored a 2020 pwx as a warranty replacement in my 2018 full e pro - yes the 2020 giants got 2020 yamaha motors. I'm amazed giant didn't advertise this because the new motors are awesome!

Quiet, better high cadence support, plus the angle sensors that allow the auto mode

 

[jsyn]

Yeah, given all the new features and sensors and updates, I was expecting Giant to advertise it if they were using the new motors. When a manufacturer keeps exactly the same name for a product but actually updates it, it makes things difficult for the consumer to tell the difference and make educated decisions. Good to hear they're stocking the newer models

 

[Oscar56]

I have the 2020 Giant Phantom. There is no Yamaha label on the motor and the app says the hardware is version 201901. The spec sheet on the Giant website cals the motor: Giant SyncDrive Pro.

Would this be the Yamaha PW-X?

 

[jsyn]

That's the question. If Giant is using the 2020 version of the motors on their 2020 bikes then what you have is actually a Yamaha PW-X2

 

[Browneye]

Unless there's a backlog of motor inventory that Giant is using up, it wouldn't make sense for Yamaha to make two versions of each motor version. So, likely yes, but no guarantees.
It's an interesting relationship there, Giant and Yamaha. And the number-one reason I like Giant bikes so well - more the Yamaha influence than Giant themselves, although they seem to put out a good product.

 

[PDoz]

I have the 2020 Giant Phantom. There is no Yamaha label on the motor and the app says the hardware is version 201901. The spec sheet on the Giant website cals the motor: Giant SyncDrive Pro.

Would this be the Yamaha PW-X?

If you have auto mode, it's the pwx2 (2020 version) . If not, it's most likely an early 2020 bike with the original pwx.

Unfortunately "2020" model bikes started being released / marketed late 2019 . I notice Giant have just started trickling "2021" road bikes into the market - we're nit even half way through 2020!

 

[Barbsra McElroy]

Unless there's a backlog of motor inventory that Giant is using up, it wouldn't make sense for Yamaha to make two versions of each motor version. So, likely yes, but no guarantees.
It's an interesting relationship there, Giant and Yamaha. And the number-one reason I like Giant bikes so well - more the Yamaha influence than Giant themselves, although they seem to put out a good product.

You really like the Giant bikes and Yamaha motors, and they have impressed me, too. So a question. The bikes do come with displays. Apparently you use an app and your phone. But I am seeing dozens of complaints that the app was updated and now won't synch. Are you using the app or is there a recommendation for a display to attach? Thank you.

 

[FlatSix911]

The Yamaha motors all come with a display and have a variety of options as shown below.

Giant is a bit different and some models come without a display and use their phone app.

 

[Browneye]

You really like the Giant bikes and Yamaha motors, and they have impressed me, too. So a question. The bikes do come with displays. Apparently you use an app and your phone. But I am seeing dozens of complaints that the app was updated and now won't synch. Are you using the app or is there a recommendation for a display to attach? Thank you.

Current Giant ebikes do not come with a display. There may be an accessory LCD display option that I'm not aware of. My shop also showed me Garmin GPS bike computers that were really snappy looking. I passed on them for their high cost. Pretty funny since I have spent more than eight grand for the bikes! Even thinking of buying another. Yes, wife thinks I'm nuts. Lol

I have sync'd 4 different bikes on two different iPhones without issue. Some users have had problems getting it to work. I recommend you download and install the app on your phone and connect to the bike you wish to purchase pre-delivery. I don't understand why there are so many problems. There are definitely current OS version requirements.

And yes, we love our new Giant ebikes! Ecstatic, actually.

 

[pmcdonald]

You really like the Giant bikes and Yamaha motors, and they have impressed me, too. So a question. The bikes do come with displays. Apparently you use an app and your phone. But I am seeing dozens of complaints that the app was updated and now won't synch. Are you using the app or is there a recommendation for a display to attach? Thank you.

Some here in Australia come with the Evo display, some don't. Mine does and I'm happy with it, but it's by no means critical. If you're a purist you may prefer the cleaner RideControl One 'cockpit'.

I have issues connecting via my newish Android but there's a three step restart procedure I've learnt to follow if I want to make use of the app. Given the limited features of the app I wouldn't say it would likely be a deal breaker at all if it didn't work.

It's only really handy to adjust your assist presets - the defaults works just fine for me - access motor metrics (energy, calories), and update your firmware without a trip to the dealer. Trip logging is handled better with third party apps IMO, such as Ride with GPS or Strava.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You really like the Giant bikes and Yamaha motors, and they have impressed me, too. So a question. The bikes do come with displays. Apparently you use an app and your phone. But I am seeing dozens of complaints that the app was updated and now won't synch. Are you using the app or is there a recommendation for a display to attach? Thank you

@Browneye has given an answer; let me expand it:

Now, the RideControl Evo is available as an optional accessory for the Giant e-bikes with the minimalist (though nice) RideControlOne remote. Availability may be limited to certain areas. Yes, you can connect a smartphone with the RideControl App to the RideControlOne remote. I'm not particularly happy with the app; the Specialized Mission Control app I use on another e-bike of mine is better developed. Now, the RideControl EVO display is very expensive: it costs around USD 240 while the Specialized counterpart TCD is some USD 75. Yet, I prefer to see my ride parameters on the EVO display mounted on my Giant bike to using the smartphone because the RideControl app has let me down too many times already.

Regarding Giant SyncDrive motors "powered by Yamaha" it is nothing strange with such an approach. Spesh call their motors "Specialized" although some of those motors are made by Brose and other by Mahle. It's just branding and cooperation of the bike manufacturer with the motor maker for the best performance.

Yes, the SyncDrive Pro of 2020 is the Yamaha PW-X2 as long as the RideControlOne remote starts in the SmartAssist (Auto) mode.

 

[Browneye]

The new X2 version is quieter and more powerful, supports much higher cadence. A real peach, puts them back on top. Many wish there was a larger battery single pack option.

Comparing to Brose S-Mag, Bosch CX, and Shimano Steps8000, they're all more similar than different. We have outstanding technology available for all the popular brands, and even some new comers!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm picking up the RideControl EVO this Thursday. Will report.

 

[bob armani]

@Browneye has given an answer; let me expand it:

Now, the RideControl Evo is available as an optional accessory for the Giant e-bikes with the minimalist (though nice) RideControlOne remote. Availability may be limited to certain areas. Yes, you can connect a smartphone with the RideControl App to the RideControlOne remote. I'm not particularly happy with the app; the Specialized Mission Control app I use on another e-bike of mine is better developed. Now, the RideControl EVO display is very expensive: it costs around USD 240 while the Specialized counterpart TCD is some USD 75. Yet, I prefer to see my ride parameters on the EVO display mounted on my Giant bike to using the smartphone because the RideControl app has let me down too many times already.

Regarding Giant SyncDrive motors "powered by Yamaha" it is nothing strange with such an approach. Spesh call their motors "Specialized" although some of those motors are made by Brose and other by Mahle. It's just branding and cooperation of the bike manufacturer with the motor maker for the best performance.

Yes, the SyncDrive Pro of 2020 is the Yamaha PW-X2 as long as the RideControlOne remote starts in the SmartAssist (Auto) mode.

I was hoping somebody would elaborate on the interface options with your bikes. Was not aware they did not come with displays. Not a big fan of using any smartphone in its place. Now it all makes more sense to me. For $240.USD, it must be quite a nice add-on. The TCD looks like it has many nice features/functions as well.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The TCD looks like it has many nice features/functions as well.

Bob, it looks the older EVOs were not really waterproof. Giant made the decision to introduce the RideControl One, which would be something ideal for e-MTB (where you often do not want any display) but unluckily a display is very much desired in city, commuter, touring and maybe even the road e-bike. The RideControl EVO display is a wired one. The high price can result from the fact the LBS would reimburse part of the money for heavy work of routing the wires internally in the frame.

Now, Specialized. The TCD wireless display is for their performance e-bikes that come without any display at all. The TCD is inexpensive but it requires a battery. The TCD-W display is a wired one. The TCD-W comes with all new non-performance Specialized e-bikes (Vado, Como) and is replacing the older BLOKS display under warranty for older Vados and Comos.

Perhaps Giant will decide to deliver the 2021 e-bikes with the new EVO displays again but most probably it won't happen for the Giant performance e-bikes. I may only guess.

 

[bob armani]

Bob, it looks the older EVOs were not really waterproof. Giant made the decision to introduce the RideControl One, which would be something ideal for e-MTB (where you often do not want any display) but unluckily a display is very much desired in city, commuter, touring and maybe even in road e-bike. The RideControl EVO display is a wired one. The high price can result from the fact the LBS would reimburse part of the money for heavy work of routing the wires internally in the frame.

Now, Specialized. The TCD wireless display is for their performance e-bikes that come without any display at all. The TCD is inexpensive but it requires a battery. The TCD-W display is a wired one. The TCD-W comes with all new non-performance Specialized e-bikes (Vado, Creo) and is replacing the older BLOKS display under warranty for older Vados and Comos.

Perhaps Giant will decide to deliver the 2021 e-bikes with the new EVO displays again but most probably it won't happen for the Giant performance e-bikes. I may only guess.

Ahh, okay. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Oski1997]

The new X2 version is quieter and more powerful, supports much higher cadence. A real peach, puts them back on top. Many wish there was a larger battery single pack option.

Comparing to Brose S-Mag, Bosch CX, and Shimano Steps8000, they're all more similar than different. We have outstanding technology available for all the popular brands, and even some new comers!

Do you think Yamaha will update their bikes with the new ST 2021 motor that is quieter and supports higher cadence?

 

[Oski1997]

@Browneye has given an answer; let me expand it:

Now, the RideControl Evo is available as an optional accessory for the Giant e-bikes with the minimalist (though nice) RideControlOne remote. Availability may be limited to certain areas. Yes, you can connect a smartphone with the RideControl App to the RideControlOne remote. I'm not particularly happy with the app; the Specialized Mission Control app I use on another e-bike of mine is better developed. Now, the RideControl EVO display is very expensive: it costs around USD 240 while the Specialized counterpart TCD is some USD 75. Yet, I prefer to see my ride parameters on the EVO display mounted on my Giant bike to using the smartphone because the RideControl app has let me down too many times already.

Regarding Giant SyncDrive motors "powered by Yamaha" it is nothing strange with such an approach. Spesh call their motors "Specialized" although some of those motors are made by Brose and other by Mahle. It's just branding and cooperation of the bike manufacturer with the motor maker for the best performance.

Yes, the SyncDrive Pro of 2020 is the Yamaha PW-X2 as long as the RideControlOne remote starts in the SmartAssist (Auto) mode.

Since Giant uses the PW-X2 on their 2021 Road E+Pro, do you think Yamaha will upgrade the Civante to the new PW-X2-45 that supports 28mph and 120 cadence? https://global.yamaha-motor.com/business/e-bike-systems/products/pw-x2-45/