Disappointing Bosch update

[DanRad]

Hi and thank you for any input or advice you might offer. I recently had an issue with my Haibike SDURO with a Bosch motor. When they "fixed" it, they did a software update and now it seems that the "Sport" assist setting is almost identical to the "Tour" setting making it basically useless. Has anyone experienced this? Is there a way to adjust the assist amount for the various settings? Thank you for any help you can provide.
Dan

 

[Urbancowboy]

Made in Germany used to stand for quality but no longer. Overpriced and underperforming thanks to a overbearing Bureaucracy. I left that Country long time ago and never regetted a second that I did, brought the values from way back when with me and did very well.

 

[Base]

Hi and thank you for any input or advice you might offer. I recently had an issue with my Haibike SDURO with a Bosch motor. When they "fixed" it, they did a software update and now it seems that the "Sport" assist setting is almost identical to the "Tour" setting making it basically useless. Has anyone experienced this? Is there a way to adjust the assist amount for the various settings? Thank you for any help you can provide.
Dan

Weird,

with a software update there is nothing changed in the config file for support modes etc


what did the dealer exactly do to your bike and what software version is currently on the bike?

 

[Catalyzt]

Good questions, Base.

It would help if the OP listed the model of his motor--- but a quick search suggests that this should be fixable at the LBS. Here is an interesting thread that covers some of the finer points of tour vs. tour+, etc. Seems like this option is modifiable, but I'm not familiar with this motor.

Bosch CX gen 4 update, is it worth it?

I purchased a Cube Hybrid with the gen 4 CX motor during the 1st lockdown in 2020, the only software update it's had was the 85Nm update (1.1.1.0 ?) I've just purchased a Trek Rail (same motor and battery) this seems a little more lively with a more eager pickup and if anything, it's slightly...

www.emtbforums.com

I live in fear that that my very underpowered Shimano E5000 will lose the 'Sportiv' mode from 2022 in some future update that my LBS might do accidentally. It made a huge difference, and while I can adjust this with the Shimano 'eTube' app, I've been warned that executing the steps to change anything has to be done flawlessly, or you can brick the bike.

 

[stompandgo]

A Gen4 CX motor is a System 2 motor. Some of these motors can have their assist modes changed via diagnostic, some cannot. The bike needs to go back to the Bosch tech to find out what assist modes are installed, and what power output the motor is set to.

I really wanted the EMTB (dynamic) mode installed on my Performance Speed motor, but it is not possible. You can do it on some of the CX line.

 

[Catalyzt]

My new bike will have a Performance Line SX, so I'm very curious about which modes to select. Like, which saves more juice, Eco or Eco+? Should I use Auto or Turbo+? Can I have two different profiles, one for fitness rides around the neighborhood and a second one for steeper rides with mixed asphalt and trail?

I also wonder thing like, which features require a subscription-- which I'm not going to get. Is there a simple display I can purchase for it that incorporates a speedometer and an odometer / trip odometer and that doesn't require a subscription?

I do use GPS, but usually only when I stop. I don't want to have my phone on the bars.

 

[stompandgo]

That drive unit is available as a System 2 unit or a Smart System unit. Which one is yours?

Drive Modes

 

[BlackHand]

Assuming it's Smart System, you can change the 4 available drive modes in the Flow app. Which modes are available as choices depends on the type of bike and the OEM. Eco+ supposedly only activates assist on uphills or when the bike is under heavier load.

You can find info about the subscription features on Bosch's site.

 

[dblhelix]

Good questions, Base.

It would help if the OP listed the model of his motor--- but a quick search suggests that this should be fixable at the LBS. Here is an interesting thread that covers some of the finer points of tour vs. tour+, etc. Seems like this option is modifiable, but I'm not familiar with this motor.

Bosch CX gen 4 update, is it worth it?

I purchased a Cube Hybrid with the gen 4 CX motor during the 1st lockdown in 2020, the only software update it's had was the 85Nm update (1.1.1.0 ?) I've just purchased a Trek Rail (same motor and battery) this seems a little more lively with a more eager pickup and if anything, it's slightly...

www.emtbforums.com

I live in fear that that my very underpowered Shimano E5000 will lose the 'Sportiv' mode from 2022 in some future update that my LBS might do accidentally. It made a huge difference, and while I can adjust this with the Shimano 'eTube' app, I've been warned that executing the steps to change anything has to be done flawlessly, or you can brick the bike.

OP lives in the US, where Haibike has not been available for years. Assuming Gen2 Performance Line CX. An update near end of Gen2 swapped EMTB mode for Sport by default, with retention of Sport as a configurable option. That EMTB did not feel much different from Tour was a common complaint at the time -- clearly Bosch and some end users differed on how much support should be offered based on riding conditions.

 

[BlackHand]

Do you mean System 2 or gen2? I don't think any of the dynamic support modes were ever available for gen2 drive units. But they were introduced for gen4 drive units running System 2 a year or two before they started phasing in the Smart System.

 

[stompandgo]

To be honest, the Bosch drive unit model naming, numbering, and generation descriptions are confusing.

 

[dblhelix]

Good questions, Base.

It would help if the OP listed the model of his motor--- but a quick search suggests that this should be fixable at the LBS. Here is an interesting thread that covers some of the finer points of tour vs. tour+, etc. Seems like this option is modifiable, but I'm not familiar with this motor.

Bosch CX gen 4 update, is it worth it?

I purchased a Cube Hybrid with the gen 4 CX motor during the 1st lockdown in 2020, the only software update it's had was the 85Nm update (1.1.1.0 ?) I've just purchased a Trek Rail (same motor and battery) this seems a little more lively with a more eager pickup and if anything, it's slightly...

www.emtbforums.com

I live in fear that that my very underpowered Shimano E5000 will lose the 'Sportiv' mode from 2022 in some future update that my LBS might do accidentally. It made a huge difference, and while I can adjust this with the Shimano 'eTube' app, I've been warned that executing the steps to change anything has to be done flawlessly, or you can brick the bike.

OP lives in the US, where Haibike has not been available for years. Assuming Gen2 Performance Line CX. An update near end of Gen2 swapped EMTB mode for Sport by default, with retention of Sport as a configurable option. That EMTB did not feel much different from Tour was a common complaint at the time -- clearly Bosch and some end users differed on how much support should be offered based on riding conditions

Do you mean System 2 or gen2? I don't think any of the dynamic support modes were ever available for gen2 drive units. But they were introduced for gen4 drive units running System 2 a year or two before they started phasing in the Smart System.

I mean Gen2, between 'Classic' (never released in US) and Gen3/4 released 2019-2020. Gen2 models were Performance Line CX (20 mph, higher torque at low speeds) , Performance Line HS (28mph, 65Nm not upgradeable) and Performance Line (20mph, 65Nm). Any Bosch bike sold in the US up to late 2019/2020 was either Performance Line Gen2 or ActiveLine.

For Gen2 Performance Line CX, EMTB mode was introduced in an update as the default, replacing Sport w/ an EMTB dynamic assist level. It was def available, and since Haibike left the US market pre-Gen4, I'd be willing to bet the origin of this thread is Gen2.

Other features were available for a nominal charge like Topo, or the Custom Riding Modes via software. In the US, end users were limited to Purion/Intuvia displays, but a Nyon 1 from Europe used the Intuvia display mount and allowed a US end user to use these additional features. These Custom Riding Modes were static, adjusted by the user, not dynamic like Tour+ or EMTB. I can recall stopping by Electricity (shop) in DC ca. 2018-2019 and drawing a crowd around my Nyon 1 to check out the display and these features.

In 2020, the software LOCK became available for Gen4 by is no longer available since SS Alarm service rolled out.

Here is a kinda cool timeline from Bosch. They say EMTB has been available since 2015 (!) which was very early Gen2. Many features are not so new but were kicking around for a while. Who here remembers COBI, the original smartphone display bought out by Bosch?

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/company/product-history#:~:text=Founded%20in%202009%2C%20launched%20in,ten%20years%20in%20North%20America.

 

[BlackHand]

Hmm, I did some digging and eMTB mode became available 1 July 2017 - so it was indeed available on gen2 CX drive units. I was a little fuzzy on that and was probably thinking of Tour+ mode which released in 2021.

Haibike effectively left the market, but Accell did kind of randomly keep bringing a few Haibike models to the US at least through 2022.

Haibike ALLMTN 3, e-bike MTN/ATB, Navy Blue

An all-round e-mountain bike for every terrain: the XDURO All Mtn 3.0! 150mm travel, full suspension, and a powerful Bosch Performance CX motor make for top performance even over challenging terrain. The 650 Wh battery expands your EMTB experience to new levels. Different wheel sizes round off...

bixbybicycles.com

Who here remembers COBI, the original smartphone display bought out by Bosch?

Yeah, I have a Smartphone Hub sitting on the shelf in my garage. I mostly try not to remember it, the Kiox and Nyon MY21 are both much better.

 

[stompandgo]

That was a great read, dblhelix. Thanks for posting.

I asked my Bosch tech if I could upgrade my Gen4 Performance Line Speed unit to EMTB (dynamic) mode, but it is not possible on this motor.

 

[Catalyzt]

Wow. Super helpful information. I studied my bike for two weeks, an hour or two a day, but I'm realizing there's a ton that I don't know about it. (Still awaiting delivery. Again, Performance Line SX, Grizl:ON CF 7.)

Now what I'm nervous about is automatic updates via the Flow app. History has taught us that in all things, updates often make things worse instead of better. The other issue that's scaring me is the lock via the Flow app. For riding around the neighborhood, and sometimes even further, I don't like bringing my phone. Maybe it's in some other room, maybe I shut it off, threw it in the pool, am using my land line that day, etc. I also think it's unwise to be dependent on a phone because I don't trust the grid, don't trust the network, service providers, etc. My own feeling is that many of us may have to do without most of these devices, and maybe pretty soon, too.

--> Can I set up the modes that I want via FLOW and NOT activate the lock? (I'm pretty sure the answer is 'yes,' but want to make sure.) I grew up in NYC in the 1970s (as I remind folks here ad nauseum) so I never lock my bike outside anywhere except at a coffee shop where I am physically watching it at all times. My preferred theft protection systems = bad attitude + legal carry weapons.

--> Once I set up the modes that I want via FLOW, can I disable the app on my phone and just never use it? Or will it automatically turn itself on and automatically update?

Thanks. I find the BOSCH website to be as irritating as Canyon's, and has the same arrogant, phony, we-are-your-oh-so-benevolent-masters UI: We will put seven words and one huge picture on every page, and force you to hit a button to get to a sub-menu in order to answer your next question. Like, "you really don't need to know the answer, because you must trust us to take care of you, but if you supplicate yourself by pressing button after button, we may, at our discretion, provide your answers.'

Sorry to rant!

 

[stompandgo]

I can't help you with the Smart System questions, but Bosch has been known to increase motor power and add features with new software releases. I get shutting off automatic installations, unless you can't install them manually (don't know). If you disable the app, you should find a way to know when new releases are available and what's in them.

 

[Catalyzt]

I can't help you with the Smart System questions, but Bosch has been known to increase motor power and add features with new software releases. I get shutting off automatic installations, unless you can't install them manually (don't know). If you disable the app, you should find a way to know when new releases are available and what's in them.

Yeah, I've heard that as well. There's got to be a way to do that. Thx.