Disadvantage of integrated mid drives that I don't see mentioned

[Alaskan]

Very new here, and very interested in this discussion, because I am now in New E-Bike Purchase Indecision Hell. I'm not seriously OCD, but when I get into a situation like this, I just take leave of my senses, dirty dishes stack up in the sink, I only break my online spec-comparison trance for work or riding or hanging out with the dogs. And

But I could be out of my mind-- I mean, in some new way that I don't already know about.

This guy's bike is way above your budget but Trek has Bosch mid drive bikes under $3k

Read this thread as it will ease your anxiety about mid drive maintenance and durability.

39,000 miles/62,000 kms in 37 countries with a Riese & Müller Supercharger

I purchased a Riese & Müller Supercharger GT Nuvinci HS in April 2018 and started a touring journey from Paris, France. I am now in India having cycled 21,000 miles/34,000 kms in 28 countries. I wanted to share my feelings about the ebike. In addition to the 2 500W Bosch Powertube batteries, I...

electricbikereview.com

Most of the folks on this forum can barely say a good word about choices other than those they have made. Many recommendations seen here come down to buy what I bought and help me feel better about it.

After you read this thread go to his website, 48,000 km from Paris to Cambodia his story is more about culture, architecture especially but what a journey...truly inspirational.

Touring on an Electric Bicycle - An Ebike Journey

An ebike journey. Touring the world on an electric assisted bicycle. 39,000 miles/62,000 kilometers in 37 countries.

www.ebikejourney.com

 

[Handlebars]

Very new here, and very interested in this discussion, because I am now in New E-Bike Purchase Indecision Hell. I'm not seriously OCD, but when I get into a situation like this, I just take leave of my senses, dirty dishes stack up in the sink, I only break my online spec-comparison trance for work or riding or hanging out with the dogs. And mid-drive vs hub is a big part of my disorder right now.

I'm a huge fan of DIY low-power hub kits, because I have one and it's exceeded my wildest expectations. I'm 63 and and have health problems, but in my own strange way I'm very fit, and my longer rides (Hiltopper, 250W hub, tiny battery, mid-90's Trek 930, 40 pounds, Shimano MegaRange cluster) can be 16 miles with 1,200 feet of vertical, including the occasional 15% grade, and top speeds of around 32 MPH going downhill. The range anxiety is a bummer, though, and I'd like to explore further from home and not constantly be staring at my GPS to figure out the best route so my battery doesn't die on the way home.

I love old, reliable tech, I still use my 2004 MacPowerbook, just used it this year to resurrect old tracks for an album I released a few months ago, one of my cars is a lightly modified 1991 Honda CRX HF that still out-handles a lot of late model cars and can get 48 MPG even with 280,000 miles on the odometer.

The maintenance issues with mid-drive motors are a concern for me, though I'll probably ride between 1500 and 2000 miles a year. I'm looking for under 48 pounds, full suspension and under 2,500, and at least 20 miles of range which (considering availability) kind of limits me to two very different bikes: The Nikreeka Homie with 250 Watts hub drive (which can pass for a Class II if I remove the throttle and use the smaller battery, and is definitely Class III with a larger battery VS. the Motobecane Ultra E-Adventure with the Shimano E5000. The former will manage these hills but I'll probably have to work harder than I do with the Trek, but will probably be considerably faster on the flats and downhill even with the small battery, while the latter will be better on the hills, slower on the flats, likely not handle quite as well over 30 MPH downhill.

I'm figuring if civilization collapses and we're headed for a post-apocalyptic hell-world, the Homie will be better for maintenance, and given my history of nursing along older tech, it's probably a better fit for me, though I hate spending quite that much money. On the plus side, I can imagine being 67 and saying, "Well, I finally need a bigger motor" and ordering a 350, 500 or even 1000 watt replacement hub drive, plus upgrading the battery. I think the fear of the Shimano E5000 breaking down, (as well as the fact that I'm not quite capable of estimating the range with a 418Wh battery on a bike that could be 49 pounds) would diminish my enjoyment of the bike, but maybe my even considering a CF bike from an upstart like Nireeka is really jejeune.

But I could be out of my mind-- I mean, in some new way that I don't already know about.

Yeah, well you know a lot more than the majority of buyers. That's good. So now you need to pick out the necessary items.
Must be fixable without interventions from the company if need be
Must not be a heavyweight
What else...battery/range issue. Fix that issue.

"under 2,500, and at least 20 miles of range which (considering availability) kind of limits me to two very different bikes"

With the hilly terrain the 20 miles might turn into 5 on a basic heavy hub motor bike. I guess that's why you have only 2 possibles at the weight limit and price you want to pay, but still I'd ask people here for a real world estimate of range for the bikes in question in that terrain and weight approximately like yours.

Then for whichever bikes you can price additional battery into the deal after you make them do work for you. See how that goes. Longer range, if you like the bike, longer range from an affordable extra battery would be the next thing. Not only affordable, but available. I'd want more than a stated 20 mile range, immediately. So that would have to be figured in the price range.
I might buy one if you find it. My bike is quite heavy. I went all the way, since it starts at 63lbs or whatever it was. Must easily weigh 80 now with heavy locks and chains and carriers and stuff. No pretense that this is a light bike, so now I'd like to pack another 20Ah battery on.

 

[Catalyzt]

This guy's bike is way above your budget but Trek has Bosch mid drive bikes under $3k

Read this thread as it will ease your anxiety about mid drive maintenance and durability.

39,000 miles/62,000 kms in 37 countries with a Riese & Müller Supercharger

I purchased a Riese & Müller Supercharger GT Nuvinci HS in April 2018 and started a touring journey from Paris, France. I am now in India having cycled 21,000 miles/34,000 kms in 28 countries. I wanted to share my feelings about the ebike. In addition to the 2 500W Bosch Powertube batteries, I...

electricbikereview.com

Most of the folks on this forum can barely say a good word about choices other than those they have made. Many recommendations seen here come down to buy what I bought and help me feel better about it.

After you read this thread go to his website, 48,000 km from Paris to Cambodia his story is more about culture, architecture especially but what a journey...truly inspirational.

Touring on an Electric Bicycle - An Ebike Journey

An ebike journey. Touring the world on an electric assisted bicycle. 39,000 miles/62,000 kilometers in 37 countries.

www.ebikejourney.com

True about mid-drives, but not with full suspension. My routes are usually very bad road, not a lot of off-road, but I want to be able to go for it when I want to go for it, and I often encounter deep potholes that are often hard to see. I'm also on blood thinners, so basically, the goal is never, ever to crash. (I've been able to pull that off with black diamond skiing and body boarding.)

Great point about wanting to reinforce our own choices after we've made them. Part of my goal is to have a very different bike from the Trek 930 conversion, which I view as a spectacular success-- it's really good at what it does, and I'll still use it for shorter 25-30 minute rides during breaks from work-- just pound up those short 15% grades, a terrific workout.

Look forward to reading the narrative of the Paris-Cambodia tour, can always use some inspiration!

 

[Catalyzt]

Yeah, well you know a lot more than the majority of buyers. That's good. So now you need to pick out the necessary items.
Must be fixable without interventions from the company if need be
Must not be a heavyweight
What else...battery/range issue. Fix that issue.

"under 2,500, and at least 20 miles of range which (considering availability) kind of limits me to two very different bikes"

With the hilly terrain the 20 miles might turn into 5 on a basic heavy hub motor bike. I guess that's why you have only 2 possibles at the weight limit and price you want to pay, but still I'd ask people here for a real world estimate of range for the bikes in question in that terrain and weight approximately like yours.

Then for whichever bikes you can price additional battery into the deal after you make them do work for you. See how that goes. Longer range, if you like the bike, longer range from an affordable extra battery would be the next thing. Not only affordable, but available. I'd want more than a stated 20 mile range, immediately. So that would have to be figured in the price range.
I might buy one if you find it. My bike is quite heavy. I went all the way, since it starts at 63lbs or whatever it was. Must easily weigh 80 now with heavy locks and chains and carriers and stuff. No pretense that this is a light bike, so now I'd like to pack another 20Ah battery on.

Good guess, yes, I'm 6"1' and 150 pounds, though I'm usually wearing a 5 pound armored jacket. I'm going to shed 2.5 pounds this summer by switching to motocross style armor, which will also make me look more even more like a character from a science fiction movie, which I don't mind.

Right also about range. The Trek conversion is 250 watt front hub with a 5.4 Ah battery, and I've gotten 16 miles out of it including 1,200 feet of vertical. However, I've also gotten as little as 9.5-- with small batteries, small decisions have a big impact. What really eats battery life is running with the throttle wide open for minutes at a time or wind blowing over 10 MPH.

In my price range, one thing that would be hard about a mid-drive for me as well is that I'm almost certainly limited to Class 1. I do like cornering at over 20 on flat terrain, which I can do on the Trek conversion, though I'm wandering a bit afield from the issues the OP is concerned about.

More to the point of this thread: If I get the Motobecane, and it's too slow, or there's something about the way the pedal assist works that I don't like, I can't really do any mods to correct it. I don't think a different motor would fit on the frame, and even if it did, it would be hard to find someone to do the work.

If I get the Homie, it's more like, "Ah, well, I can live with this for six to 18 months, not quite what I hoped for, but still does things the other bike can't, so I won't sell it, I'll get a 500w hub later." (Or add a torque sensor, it's 5-level cadence stock w/ cadence as an upgrade option.) The Homie will also do 27 just with a bigger battery, though any Class I mid-drive will be forever limited to 20 MPH unless I start hacking the controller, which I don't want to get into. (I think, right?)