Detailed Ride Report - Distance/Battery

karmap

Member
So here are some more stats on battery and some other interesting things for the ride today.

I started the day with 100% battery with the goal of riding to work and back like a normal commute would be. To get to work it is about a 15-mile ride. 70% of it is on bike paths, and the rest are on non-crowded roads. On the way to work it is a slight incline the whole way with the regular up and downs that a bike path might have. On the way back from work there is one very steep and long hill, but the rest is, as you guessed it, a slight decline with the regular up and downs of the bike path.

I recorded Strava data on both rides which includes average speed, elevation, and distance. I recorded it in two segments. I have pictures of before and after of the LCD display on the CrossCurrent S.

Specs:

19.2 mAH battery

Weight:

Person – 145 lbs

Cargo - ~8 lbs

Tires:

Upgraded Marathon Ultra tires, same size as stock tires.



Segment 1: stayed in level 2 the entire time other than for 15 seconds or so when I went to level S to match the speed of traffic on busier road. I used the throttle to assist getting up to speed on most instances that I had to come to a complete stop. While my total average speed is lower due to stops and slow downs, my average cruising speed on flats was around 21mph. I stayed roughly in gear 7 or 8 for the majority of the ride. I coasted down hills and did not pedal when gravity was sufficient to keep me at 18-22mph. Results.




y4mJylniZ_O4HGAJIpF_OwmFBU6Gk2wSdjvjw0HDYMU0gOs22gWnuFJzgJYiX3yhjrZovJHsuQ2W_bnMr051-JqBj5iA7a4MmNpf56Ioo5ZackB1Mb6TR7E9vvHhmMdwsoubiWRzMTwv6Rri849TfnJ55rlnHncIo8jZJ2hKORlh2B_LVM4tsskTOxqcPjcutfpDEJu0ge4eDKkUoCqk7LVuQ
y4moEDvKFyAQkcEdfzaWKTb-CAEnUJfXjop4ldoWl4F0vYWStGwp3eCkV5IW-f9g_skQDx8D6ef2R5ORb4XXai2YZ-a-eIuVdRGt4Kn9qtUwHXvYKnjN6fJU5UqBKIPlwulg7nGJfBDPUAx7BwkjdcSGwBf5bjIJQ0OHjCuIKAdkELgakYgAdwe6I1fkExnd0cXy3rJfnUpU9h3rABZ4ewRGg
y4m-rSlIo9ySxBiy2w-jao4hPhgjMoEZf3qQl5oSNEcQ-jdDdWRtBGtQsbbL9IWV1Ws9eCllwTc6g7nZBmE_SVvz3jcwDjxQtDFFJkq8CQl9eyPom3soIOHJp-LuMPKWdovoJrytrx9NmNxT0QsUfwgOOhIW5t5adT6UiZsRp8hfhSLyB2KEeo_0icwBDlKgtQEDkWqAloQk0TxCZSHzZgm7Q
y4mFMQVp0Sgu81_8wZEuuFgn7hFlEK1I50q6f_IVl-s3chZdPxx0hDMvKSrgKqDcyn7C2_GDUY_Xu0IGOJR5wyZvQ4OnNHJMzflvF1sWgGSMFXiC1MvnUykg9x04uxatIm7jfT7dt5m-rIeWJBKls3YuVh8qzLln3t4VwiiT0o_pSBmJ_jsslKeJeHRIasD4uSX4MD85Vzzx-t-UdbgH4w7fQ



My odo says 15.3 miles while strava says 15.7

Total elevation gain of 724

My battery lost two bars and burned 5.5Ah

Volts available now showing 50.4

280Wh


Segment 2: stayed in level 1 and 2 the entire time. I would say more 1 than 2 because of going downhill. There is also a speed limit on the bike path and I wanted to keep pace with the traffic around me. I used the throttle to assist getting up to speed on most instances that I had to come to a complete stop. While my total average speed is lower due to stops and slow downs, my average cruising speed on flats was around 23mph. I stayed roughly in gear 7 or 8 for the majority of the ride. I coasted down hills and did not pedal when gravity was sufficient to keep me 18-22mph. Results.


y4mTYg6ysNGOV2l9mTYC3pWzOwmYabMo4S-DTlWfGQ9_kfqbIpRB4uEAwQMfKEn3JQZxhbUz1P7bDvtoGRQj6y8Leq8voGW49H5L0RYm5gU-Xx3-H4QiPLV2eK-0fjqufDnOUWSeoNsN2SGxiZWd6Y7cIeuwITGMELmYw1ugGBviJ4llJb-tMisyfA8V9Cgq7FF_964DmDjBAAvfFj-KiOaCA
y4mnuM4NJctMGD-xT77VpZqLOwyfaUjGo315iVbR2IcG2iwGSoG1bXXvdfIbKrzDzV9wMCPc8QIFi-gUAia5l39XyUlyYlXfzGUAVZfVOi5WTHzDg7EhCrRJGpThbfcJzfC7dQ9gXJtIa0RnrNFXMOKobi-73UUKLUua2vfZyO4PolSml_rBeRarXpzAYPdjAzKlid6O95s2zrBEmCylj0eCA
y4msA9wybBGbsZYcSM0lOhldqbCfFh9IUZZjwOajnWa6QGRDDWd8aIoglt0QvrklQGgdg0ebZofn9QR08PYlO2PSzghZWRI0XK_8WrwYIOikYvrJFZXYp8Dof94pIGeZ4IRuXVlZz3hy6z5J12hmtpEMspfNnikduowwDayUAtidHC54HQ32QDzd_PLNTJ657jCCE5a1WEqEUrz1p2a7439CA
y4maFxGTaRBvC5biHldXx63WOq-IXBYLafzwLdMXAxC9MqnI6WIzZeTrDdyWe2ujDDrnfI_5lAK6ioxP4OE_yuLqrbF9MwJzMaunGgI5JK2460niYDWJPH6rtVVxtiU_3stfG5vIpyHB2Cxc2fj8oXHOrpSFdJeEsfRPQrCxWpKZNbwRCE0dGqMWQHQWunTOwcG-K4_Ld-N-0vV8K_BKIKE-g


My odo says 30.7miles. Strava again says 15.7miles. Looks like both meters are at least consistent on what they think they are measuring!

Total elevation gain of 262. Not sure how that works Strava, same start and finish.

My battery is now down to 3 or 4 bars. Has burned through 4.0h

Volts available now showing 47.3

207Wh

Overview:

Final battery Stats - 487Wh, 9.5Ah, 30.7Miles, 47.3V

My ride was a closed loop so net elevation is close to 0. I understand perfect conditions, no stopping, and 100% flat ground makes a difference but it seems a bit too much of a difference. Most of the bike path I am on does not have stops but I do slow down when passing pedestrians. The testing on Juiced website says lvl 3 at 20mph, I am only doing lvl 2 or 1 at up to 23ish mph. Juiced tests had around 40lbs more on the bike than I did.

Seems like by the time I got to 13Ah it would be showing 1 or 2 bars. Maybe the bars are not very accurate?

Anyway, thought this info might be helpful and was bored when I got home.
 
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Based on your volt readings, you appear to have used 25-30% of the battery on each segment of 15 miles. That feels "about" right given that you spent a lot of time around 23 mph, there was some stop and go, some throttle, and some elevation mixed in.

The website estimates 51 mile range at level 3 normal pedaling 22 mph in their test. That's with more weight but also perfect conditions (level, no wind/perfect weather). As you were cruising a fair amount of the time, I would not expect a huge difference in watt output between 2 and 3 (where it really makes a difference is how aggressively it accelerates). So, it overall doesn't feel that off. You used about 60% of your battery (don't trust the bars, they're definitely not all that accurate, trust the resting voltage output more, though even that is squirrelly) to go about 60% of the rated distance for that speed.
 
Final battery Stats - 487Wh, 9.5Ah, 30.7Miles, 47.3V
So your final stats are not that different than mine, even though our riding styles are quite different. I pedal hard all the time and ride fast.
My one way commute is 30 miles or so depending on route. I've been averaging about 550 Wh from the pack for my commute, and I recharge at work. Nice to see the versatility of the bikes
 
Final battery Stats - 487Wh, 9.5Ah, 30.7Miles, 47.3V

You have above average ebike efficiency for your speed. At >20 mph average speed with hills and stops, at that 30 mile travel distance, you are consuming an impressively low 15.86 wh/mi.

My power consumption on that kind of riding, regardless which of my 3 ebikes I use is about 20 wh/mi. Two things I can think of, you are young and exert more effort than I do, and second is that the CCS is one very efficient ebike (right up there with the big leagues).
 
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So here are some more stats on battery and some other interesting things for the ride today.

Wow. Thanks for that. I'm 80 lb heavier and the CCS ST I am getting will be with 12.8Ah battery. Still seems like I will be able to get 30 miles out of a charge and have 20% to spare?
 
Wow. Thanks for that. I'm 80 lb heavier and the CCS ST I am getting will be with 12.8Ah battery. Still seems like I will be able to get 30 miles out of a charge and have 20% to spare?

Yeah I would think so but remember when it gets low the amount of power the battery supplies drop. I will post details on my last ride this battery cycle this afternoon but by the end I definitely had decreased power assistance available to me. Like I had to use the S power level to get proper assist up hills at speeds of 16mph with some effort.

Below 20% I am not sure how much assist this battery will give. At that point I feel the power available will make it seem like a regular bike.
 
@NeilCruz

Yeah....I am trading oomph for comfort on the step-thru frame. Battery not upgradable. I'm not commuting, just errands and joy rides. Compared to my Class 2 Prodeco Phantom X, which I could get ~20 miles under good conditions with a 38v/12a battery, I am hoping for something closer to @karmap. CCS is about 10 lb lighter too. Can't wait to find out!
 
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@karmap My experience is that around 44V performance drops drastically.

I took it down to 42V one time. This was during the first week I had my CCS and I wanted to explore its limits.

At 42V I was doing the lion's share of the work regardless of PAS level, and the throttle responded so weakly as to be only marginally useful. I wondered at that point whether the battery had dropped so low in SOC as to be vulnerable to damage. Fortunately I was nearly home so it was not a problem.

I try not to let it get below 44V now, and will accept a much slower speed in order to do so.

I appreciate your detailed report. Great stuff!

Edit: looking at the chart posted on another thread today, 42V is about 20% on a 48V battery. So given the data that suggest we shouldn't drive our batteries below 20%, I was right on the money to not push it any further.
 
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So your final stats are not that different than mine, even though our riding styles are quite different. I pedal hard all the time and ride fast.
My one way commute is 30 miles or so depending on route. I've been averaging about 550 Wh from the pack for my commute, and I recharge at work. Nice to see the versatility of the bikes

Given how you're racking up miles faster than anyone else, you should consider logging your maintenance and such over time, to see what an ebike needs after 5, 10, 20k miles. And post it here. Would be pretty interesting!
 
Given how you're racking up miles faster than anyone else, you should consider logging your maintenance and such over time, to see what an ebike needs after 5, 10, 20k miles. And post it here. Would be pretty interesting!
Not a bad idea at all. Of course that requires me to get a little more organized to keep a maintenance log. ;) I will work on it though.
 
Just a short update with my ride this morning.

I started my commute with theee bars left. By mile 10 using lvl 1 the entire time the voltage was around 41. At this point is is barely assisting. With 2 miles to go it completely dies.

You do not want to be stuck on this bike without juice. It is heavy. Hills are a real struggle. I had to stand up and mash in order to get up medium sized hill.

Question. I believe the 48V 19.8 battery wont drain to zero. It is programmed to cut before to goes to zero save battery longevity. Let’s say that it keeps 10% as a reserve. Let’s say that at 1 bar the assist is barely enough to counter the weight of the bike. That means of the total energy available in the battery 20-30% of it is is not of great use.

Is this how electric bikes work in general. ?
 
@karmap

First off 41V remaining is LOW, VERY VERY LOW. You are ALREADY below 20%, which is were we ALL recommend you cut off. You should have charged.
If you are below 43.7 Volts you are already at or below the likely useful power curve on the battery.


Its best to state what started in Voltage not BARS.. So next time say your Starting V and ending V rather than Starting Bars and Ending Volts (thanks!).


I am surprised that you were not aware, based on the many threads here about battery optimization, that with a 48V system, we expect SIGNIFICANT drop off on useful power assist as you get closer to 40% capacity, with the "bottom of the tank" being 20%.

For your 48V (13s) system:
40% = 45.2 Volts
20% = 42.1 Volts
15% = 41.3 Volts
10% = 40.6 Volts



It sounds like your low voltage cutoff is set too low, allowing you to discharge your battery below 20%.

Note: If you have the money to burn to buy a new battery every 2 years, go ahead and discharge down to 10%. :)
Its just the recommended "best practice" to keep the battery above 20%.

I hope you have a charger with you when you ended your ride at 41V.

Good Luck.
 
@karmap

First off 41V remaining is LOW, VERY VERY LOW. You are ALREADY below 20%, which is were we ALL recommend you cut off. You should have charged.
If you are below 43.7 Volts you are already at or below the likely useful power curve on the battery.


Its best to state what started in Voltage not BARS.. So next time say your Starting V and ending V rather than Starting Bars and Ending Volts (thanks!).


I am surprised that you were not aware, based on the many threads here about battery optimization, that with a 48V system, we expect SIGNIFICANT drop off on useful power assist as you get closer to 40% capacity, with the "bottom of the tank" being 20%.

For your 48V (13s) system:
40% = 45.2 Volts
20% = 42.1 Volts
15% = 41.3 Volts
10% = 40.6 Volts



It sounds like your low voltage cutoff is set too low, allowing you to discharge your battery below 20%.

Note: If you have the money to burn to buy a new battery every 2 years, go ahead and discharge down to 10%. :)
Its just the recommended "best practice" to keep the battery above 20%.

I hope you have a charger with you when you ended your ride at 41V.

Good Luck.

Is that how all electric batteries work?

I guess that makes sense I just thought I remember reading that Juiced came defaulted with a cutoff above 0% drain but maybe I am wrong.

Something seems off as there is no way I used the complete 19.8ah before it cutoff unless that reading is also not accuracte

Yeah I have my charger at work so I will be good for the ride home....down hill lol.
 
Is that how all electric batteries work?

I guess that makes sense I just thought I remember reading that Juiced came defaulted with a cutoff above 0% drain but maybe I am wrong.

Something seems off as there is no way I used the complete 19.8ah before it cutoff unless that reading is also not accuracte

Yeah I have my charger at work so I will be good for the ride home....down hill lol.
IIRC the bike controller default cutoff is 41V. In the advanced settings menu you can manually adjust this up to a max of 43V.
 
Is that how all electric batteries work?

I guess that makes sense I just thought I remember reading that Juiced came defaulted with a cutoff above 0% drain but maybe I am wrong.
This behavior is based on lithium ion battery chemistry, as you suspect. The cutoff is in the controller, not the battery, as Chris Hammond described.

I keep an eye on the voltage indicator -- not the little bars, that's a very rough estimate -- and try not to go below 46 volts. I occasionally get as low as 44V, which is roughly 30% of battery capacity, but performance has dropped considerably by then and drops even faster from there on. Twice, I've gotten down to 42V -- 20% -- and I'm doing almost all of the work. With my 17.4 Ah battery, I can ride 50-60 miles (depends on terrain, wind, etc.) before getting below 44V. Plenty for me, until I get in better shape.

If you need to know how to set the voltage cutoff and a bunch of other useful stuff, check out this video with @Tora Harris.
 
I really wish they included a little card with table for the 13s and 14s configs -- at least 100%, 80%, 60%, 40% and 20%.

@Tora Harris FYI: My RCS with 19.2 Ah shipped with low voltage cutoff set to 40V (10% for 48V ) so went into settings and I bumped it up to 42V (20% for 48V).


I had cropped the Volt to % color chart from the (I think batteryschool?) to have just the 48V and made it the lock screen for my phone. I don't want to have to call UberXL for a pickup if I'm 10 miles away. I'll probably make a non-color one so its easier to read on my phone in the glare of the sun.

@karmap I hope you were able to get enough charge to get home. You might also want to review the thread here for a good pros/cons discussion of various battery life/charge/power issues: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/how-to-best-charge-battery-for-longest-life.14791/
 
@Tora Harris FYI: My RCS with 19.2 Ah shipped with low voltage cutoff set to 40V (10% for 48V ) so went into settings and I bumped it up to 42V (20% for 48V).

Just keep in mind that by setting it to 42V it's really going to behave as a 42.99999V cutoff (see my earlier thread on this topic). If you are experiencing motor cutout earlier than you think you should, this is why.
 
Just keep in mind that by setting it to 42V it's really going to behave as a 42.99999V cutoff (see my earlier thread on this topic). If you are experiencing motor cutout earlier than you think you should, this is why.
That's why I have mine set at 40V. I noticed when I had it set higher that it started cutting back before I really needed it to. So I just keep an eye on the voltage meter. Doesn't take much effort.
 
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