Decision paralysis - How does want finally pull the trigger on an e-bike

[KHowland]

I am one of those who research, research and then just a bit more research before I make a purchase like an e-bike.

Here is what I think I know:

I will do some light trail riding, so at a minimum a shock up front. 20%
Most riding will be city and planned bike paths that remain fairly flat. 80%
I am 53, weigh 220lbs and I have for decades, so that probably isnt going to change.
I am 5'10" on a big hair day. I am a gym rat. Cardio is not my favorite thing to do - thus the ebike so I dont drop dead but can do something fun for cardio as I would prefer a root canal over a treadmill.
I do not currently ride a bike that often - maybe 2x a year. Rental garbage bikes etc. on vacations.
Grew up riding motocross and enduro, so I still remember the basics of off-road riding etc.

Ok, so now that my dating profile is complete....


I keep landing on the FLX trail with the M600 Bafang mid-drive. $ to spec's it looks good. Could benefit from the SRAM EX1 series, but I can make those changes later.
https://flx.bike/products/trail
I like the look, the concealed battery etc. I dont like that they only post 5 star reviews on their site; that seems a bit dishonest IMHO and there doesnt seem to be much talk on this forum about the company.

Where I am stuck is there are several full-suspension bikes available close to this price mark but they all seem to utilize Yamaha, Shimano or Bosch 250W motors with torque outputs that are not nearly as impressive as Bafang M600 or the beast Bafang Ultra.

There are virtually NO dealers in my area to test ride any of these units. This is odd as Cincinnati at 100's of miles of planned bike trails.

So decision paralysis has set in. I would love a full suspension bike, but I dont know how much help a 250W 70Nm torque motor is really going to help my 220lbs up a 20 degree incline off road.
I think it would be fine for planned bike trails, but I will be off-roading it. I have an access point 300 yards from my home to some of the best maintained MTB trails in our area. I wont be able to resist the temptation.

I know everyone asks this question in one form or another, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Kevin.

 

[linklemming]

I am one of those who research, research and then just a bit more research before I make a purchase like an e-bike.

Here is what I think I know:

I will do some light trail riding, so at a minimum a shock up front. 20%
Most riding will be city and planned bike paths that remain fairly flat. 80%
I am 53, weigh 220lbs and I have for decades, so that probably isnt going to change.
I am 5'10" on a big hair day. I am a gym rat. Cardio is not my favorite thing to do - thus the ebike so I dont drop dead but can do something fun for cardio as I would prefer a root canal over a treadmill.
I do not currently ride a bike that often - maybe 2x a year. Rental garbage bikes etc. on vacations.
Grew up riding motocross and enduro, so I still remember the basics of off-road riding etc.

Ok, so now that my dating profile is complete....


I keep landing on the FLX trail with the M600 Bafang mid-drive. $ to spec's it looks good. Could benefit from the SRAM EX1 series, but I can make those changes later.
https://flx.bike/products/trail
I like the look, the concealed battery etc. I dont like that they only post 5 star reviews on their site; that seems a bit dishonest IMHO and there doesnt seem to be much talk on this forum about the company.

Where I am stuck is there are several full-suspension bikes available close to this price mark but they all seem to utilize Yamaha, Shimano or Bosch 250W motors with torque outputs that are not nearly as impressive as Bafang M600 or the beast Bafang Ultra.

There are virtually NO dealers in my area to test ride any of these units. This is odd as Cincinnati at 100's of miles of planned bike trails.

So decision paralysis has set in. I would love a full suspension bike, but I dont know how much help a 250W 70Nm torque motor is really going to help my 220lbs up a 20 degree incline off road.
I think it would be fine for planned bike trails, but I will be off-roading it. I have an access point 300 yards from my home to some of the best maintained MTB trails in our area. I wont be able to resist the temptation.

I know everyone asks this question in one form or another, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Kevin.

Dont get hung up on the torque numbers the yamaha, shimano, bosch and brose will get you up anything, no problem. My Bulls Brose equipped eMTB has gotten me(230#) up things where I was basically laying my chest on the bars for traction. All of these units put out more than 250W

I also did research on the FLX and it all just seemed to good to be true.

You can find alot of good closeout deals of better known brands

 

[Deleted member 18083]

I don't know how much help a 250W 70Nm torque motor is really going to help my 220lb up a 20 degree incline off road.

Kevin …
Twenty degrees (>36% slope) is so extraordinarily steep that rider skill becomes paramount. Approaching such an extreme incline, most of us (I suspect!) would be so concerned about flipping backwards over our rear wheel that we'd feel safer with a powerful throttle-controlled motor.
… David

 

[PDoz]

Kevin, you grew up riding mx? Are there any mtb trails in your area where emtb are permitted? If so, then get yourself somewhere that you can ride a quality ds bike and decide if it's better value that gym membership.

I ride a giant full e pro ( yamaha "80 nm" - these ratings are irrelevant ) . I come from a trailbike background. A lot of locals are replacing their ktm's with emtb so they can semi legally ride the single line motorbike tracks. Much less likely to get booked, but also a LOT more fun - tossing around a well suspended 23 kg bike is magic compared to ploughing through the bush on 100 kg. As an added bonus, we have lots of legal mtb tracks with formed trails to play on, AND we can take the kids along.

BTW , once you get to tracks that are tricky to walk up, it's more about the quality of geometry / suspension than how much power the bike puts out - keeping the front down etc.

 

[KHowland]

@PDoz
Electric bikes are not very popular in this area at the moment. As far as emtb permitted on mtb trails; it has not been addressed locally from what I can find. I have scoured their sites and Facebook pages and not a mention of eMTB.

@David Berry
Cincinnati is also known as the Ohio Valley and some of the hills are ridiculous. The 20% are used mostly for downhill on this particular trails system.

@linklemming
So I am now realizing that one must dig a bit deeper and use Ohms Law P=VA to figure out just what the motors are really capable.

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

 

[Gator]

I live in the Cincinnati area. I strongly suggest you rent a bike and try one out first. There are several places to rent downtown, but I would suggest driving up to Loveland and renting an e-bike from Montgomery Cycle and take it out on the bike trail. It is legal in OH now. Their shop is right beside the bike trail. It is a great ride. You will be in Waynesville before you know it. This will help you in your decision making process. I did this myself before pulling the trigger on my Giant.

 

[LimboJim]

I am one of those who research, research and then just a bit more research before I make a purchase like an e-bike.

Here is what I think I know:

I will do some light trail riding, so at a minimum a shock up front. 20%
Most riding will be city and planned bike paths that remain fairly flat. 80%
I am 53, weigh 220lbs and I have for decades, so that probably isnt going to change.
I am 5'10" on a big hair day. I am a gym rat. Cardio is not my favorite thing to do - thus the ebike so I dont drop dead but can do something fun for cardio as I would prefer a root canal over a treadmill.
I do not currently ride a bike that often - maybe 2x a year. Rental garbage bikes etc. on vacations.
Grew up riding motocross and enduro, so I still remember the basics of off-road riding etc.

Ok, so now that my dating profile is complete....


I keep landing on the FLX trail with the M600 Bafang mid-drive. $ to spec's it looks good. Could benefit from the SRAM EX1 series, but I can make those changes later.
https://flx.bike/products/trail
I like the look, the concealed battery etc. I dont like that they only post 5 star reviews on their site; that seems a bit dishonest IMHO and there doesnt seem to be much talk on this forum about the company.

Where I am stuck is there are several full-suspension bikes available close to this price mark but they all seem to utilize Yamaha, Shimano or Bosch 250W motors with torque outputs that are not nearly as impressive as Bafang M600 or the beast Bafang Ultra.

There are virtually NO dealers in my area to test ride any of these units. This is odd as Cincinnati at 100's of miles of planned bike trails.

So decision paralysis has set in. I would love a full suspension bike, but I dont know how much help a 250W 70Nm torque motor is really going to help my 220lbs up a 20 degree incline off road.
I think it would be fine for planned bike trails, but I will be off-roading it. I have an access point 300 yards from my home to some of the best maintained MTB trails in our area. I wont be able to resist the temptation.

I know everyone asks this question in one form or another, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Kevin.

Around New England, MTB Associations have been protesting eMTBs in general since 2013, and only get louder with each effort they make to get them banished to ATV/moto trails.

One of their legit contentions is against throttles, which are common with Bafang-powered systems. Your area may not have addressed eMTBs on natural surfaces yet, but riding the FLX on your local, well-maintained singletrack might help make naysayers get loud.

As far as performance goes, I've ridden over 3k trail miles these past few years on at least a dozen different eMTBs, including some ridiculous climbs. I have yet to try Bafang's Ultra, but my experience with BBS02 & BBSHD systems is that they're indeed torquier than Yamaha/Shimano/Bosch etc. They were also a lot less like unassisted MTBing, especially on twisty singletrack. My biggest peeve was that they kept pushing when I stopped pedaling, and the lower assist levels were too powerful for nuanced maneuvering.

If off-road, steep hill torque is important for you, I'd consider a Brose S driven bike. I've read different Nm claims about them (90-110), but in my experience they climb like Billy Goats while remaining easily controlled on tight, technical turns. You'll get a great workout and it's the quietest of the bunch, too.

PS: I started riding eMTBs at 220lbs and all the big brand motors were plenty for me to climb 20+ degree pitches. I credit their lower available torque for my current weight of 180 ?

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Good advice from Gator. Here's another take: you've done your research and identified some bikes that are more or less what you're looking for. Pick the one you like the looks of - seriously, how it looks - and get riding!

Used to live in the Cinti area, and my brother raised his kids in Loveland. Lots of great riding! Not just the bike trails, like the wonderful Little Miami trail, but anywhere off the main roads in Southern Ohio. Like Rte 41 from Aberdeen to Bainbridge. Stay overnight in one of the cabins at Pike Lake State Park. Big fun.

 

[KHowland]

I live in the Cincinnati area. I strongly suggest you rent a bike and try one out first. There are several places to rent downtown, but I would suggest driving up to Loveland and renting an e-bike from Montgomery Cycle and take it out on the bike trail. It is legal in OH now. Their shop is right beside the bike trail. It is a great ride. You will be in Waynesville before you know it. This will help you in your decision making process. I did this myself before pulling the trigger on my Giant.

I am heading there tomorrow to look and ride the Specialized and Giant. They seem to be the most knowledgeable in the area. Still, no FS eMTB, but at least I can experience the BROSE and Giant Yamaha versions.

 

[KHowland]

Good advice from Gator. Here's another take: you've done your research and identified some bikes that are more or less what you're looking for. Pick the one you like the looks of - seriously, how it looks - and get riding!

Used to live in the Cinti area, and my brother raised his kids in Loveland. Lots of great riding! Not just the bike trails, like the wonderful Little Miami trail, but anywhere off the main roads in Southern Ohio. Like Rte 41 from Aberdeen to Bainbridge. Stay overnight in one of the cabins at Pike Lake State Park. Big fun.

I agree the planned trails systems here are only getting better I can almost make it from Covington Ky to Loveland on designated bike paths. If looks were something, and it is, Haibike would win hands down. Their designers put together awesome graphics/paint combinations!

 

[KHowland]

Around New England, MTB Associations have been protesting eMTBs in general since 2013, and only get louder with each effort they make to get them banished to ATV/moto trails.

One of their legit contentions is against throttles, which are common with Bafang-powered systems. Your area may not have addressed eMTBs on natural surfaces yet, but riding the FLX on your local, well-maintained singletrack might help make naysayers get loud.

As far as performance goes, I've ridden over 3k trail miles these past few years on at least a dozen different eMTBs, including some ridiculous climbs. I have yet to try Bafang's Ultra, but my experience with BBS02 & BBSHD systems is that they're indeed torquier than Yamaha/Shimano/Bosch etc. They were also a lot less like unassisted MTBing, especially on twisty singletrack. My biggest peeve was that they kept pushing when I stopped pedaling, and the lower assist levels were too powerful for nuanced maneuvering.

If off-road, steep hill torque is important for you, I'd consider a Brose S driven bike. I've read different Nm claims about them (90-110), but in my experience they climb like Billy Goats while remaining easily controlled on tight, technical turns. You'll get a great workout and it's the quietest of the bunch, too.

PS: I started riding eMTBs at 220lbs and all the big brand motors were plenty for me to climb 20+ degree pitches. I credit their lower available torque for my current weight of 180 ?

 

[KHowland]

The Brose S is on the Atom X and it is on the short list! No access to the S tomorrow, but the Brose on the Specialized should suffice for getting a feel.
The Bafang Ultras seem amazing with metal gears now and their torque output ratings are nuts. FLX or straight from China with FREY seem to be the only way to get the Ultra series in a frame as the mount is a lot different than it used to be for the Bafang. The like the open source feel of buying a bike with a Bafang motor, but I worry about that as well. HA. You can tweak them endlessly, throw inexpensive battery packs on them etc. 220lb to 180lbs would be awesome and fun at the same time.
Thanks for you input!

 

[PDoz]

I am heading there tomorrow to look and ride the Specialized and Giant. They seem to be the most knowledgeable in the area. Still, no FS eMTB, but at least I can experience the BROSE and Giant Yamaha versions.

There are more to motors than brand, eg with a giant fathom it'll either have the syncdrive pro ( pwx) or sport - the pro engages a lot quicker / will feel more natural / offer more power and higher cadence support.

Once you get over the initial " wow" of full assistance, have a bit of a ride around at lower assistance levels and have a think about how natural / quiet each bike / motor feels. It's tempting to just blast around at full power having fun, but chances are you'll be riding these bikes at low / intermediate assistance after the first few weeks and particularly for technical mtb riding the response time / delivery depending on pedal torque / natural feel becomes very important . I rarely ride my giant ( pwx) at full assist , and have actually lowered the low assist levels via the app .

 

[DDBB]

Hahah.. I was in the same boat this summer.. I researched a lot of different bikes and THOUGHT I knew what I wanted w/o test riding.. After test riding a bunch of different e-bikes I ended up on something I hadn't even considered; a Haibike trekking 6.0. It will climb like a mountain goat but I wish it had more power for long gentle uphill grades against the wind. I also ride 80% paved or improved trails and very little off road. I thought I had to have full suspension but front suspension and a suspension seatpost is o.k. for what I'm riding. I like a relaxed upright riding position and the e-mtb's I rode all had fairly extreme riding positions compared to what I wanted.. I'm almost 62 with a bad hip so aggressive riding position might be fine for you but it's not for me. I still ended up putting a two inch riser on the stem so I wasn't as bent over. I agree the bafang ultra would be outstanding for sheer power. I love my bike but wish it had more overall power. It's the Yamaha PW drive, it's quiet and refined but I have to work fairly hard on the road against a strong wind uphill unless I want to go less than 15mph in which case the motor can do all the work if I'm in the proper gear. There are so many choices with e-bikes you can drive yourself crazy researching them, I know I did

 

[indianajo]

T 220lb to 180lbs would be awesome and fun at the same time.

I lost 213 lb to 155 when I quit driving (and working) and started riding a bike everywhere. Took 8 years but about 8 lb a year is a sensible, no starvation weight loss program. Cloresterol is halved, too, A1C down 25%.
I bought electricity this year for those days when my elapsed time doubles because there is a 25 mph wind in my face. 5.7 hours of riding is too much. Otherwise I don't use it. Think about it. The Yamaha mid drive you can ride with no electricity without drag from the motor. The other mid-drives you can't. Other non-dragging pedal powered bikes are rear hub geared motor like the juiced & some pedegos. BTW, I can get up a 15% grade unpowered with 50 lb groceries without stopping - in June. In May I have to push.