Daunting E bike Touring Problems and Logistics.

[reed scott]

You know what? I love that Surly, and I also built out a very strong mid-tail bike that I used before it. On the Surly, those are 2x138L panniers - actually big duffel bags with a QD super strong attachment mechanism - and I have had that bike loaded to over 560 lbs total system weight where I have to travel about 10 miles loaded like that. Even at 8 mph with that much weight down low on the sides its *quite* a handful.

But there's a totally different type of bike that makes loads like that almost irrelevant to handling. I would not have believed it if I hadn't experienced it. In Feb of 2021 I completed a build of a Bullitt cargo frontloader. On my first Costco run, I couldn't believe the handling. It was almost unaffected. The issue of momentum and inertia were of course there, but the bike was literally no different in handling.

This 'Long John' type of bike is common in Europe and they are notoriously loopy/flexible. But the Bullitt is the exception. Super strong and stiff, actually nimble. The only reason I am bringing this up is there are a couple of crazy Germans out of Berlin who are making plans available for low tech, 3rd world bike construction, and the version of this bike is made for all terrain. Its beefy as hell and runs two big hub motors in an awd configuration. You could take those plans and make a bike that changes your game entirely.

Check this out:

casablanca | Stefan and sitting on a couch in a hotel in casablanca after presenting this - oh yes, we wow :) | By AnywhereBerlin - electric cargobikes to #forgetroads | Facebook

Stefan and sitting on a couch in a hotel in casablanca after presenting this - oh yes, we wow :)

fb.watch

Amazing! The 'hunting' bike people could go far with this design.

 

[K PierreR]

You know what? I love that Surly, and I also built out a very strong mid-tail bike that I used before it. On the Surly, those are 2x138L panniers - actually big duffel bags with a QD super strong attachment mechanism - and I have had that bike loaded to over 560 lbs total system weight where I have to travel about 10 miles loaded like that. Even at 8 mph with that much weight down low on the sides its *quite* a handful.

But there's a totally different type of bike that makes loads like that almost irrelevant to handling. I would not have believed it if I hadn't experienced it. In Feb of 2021 I completed a build of a Bullitt cargo frontloader. On my first Costco run, I couldn't believe the handling. It was almost unaffected. The issue of momentum and inertia were of course there, but the bike was literally no different in handling.

This 'Long John' type of bike is common in Europe and they are notoriously loopy/flexible. But the Bullitt is the exception. Super strong and stiff, actually nimble. The only reason I am bringing this up is there are a couple of crazy Germans out of Berlin who are making plans available for low tech, 3rd world bike construction, and the version of this bike is made for all terrain. Its beefy as hell and runs two big hub motors in an awd configuration. You could take those plans and make a bike that changes your game entirely.

Check this out:

casablanca | Stefan and sitting on a couch in a hotel in casablanca after presenting this - oh yes, we wow :) | By AnywhereBerlin - electric cargobikes to #forgetroads | Facebook

Stefan and sitting on a couch in a hotel in casablanca after presenting this - oh yes, we wow :)

fb.watch

That is something I would be interested in as can build machines. I have a lot of steel laying around and access to chrome Moly. I have access to a full fab shop if I want to use it.

 

[K PierreR]

Hah you spotted those I see despite their being angled out of sight

Thanks for the info. My brother, aka Shrek, has size 14 feet in an H width.

 

[K PierreR]

I finished up the protection for the batteries. No difference in handling.

 

[mschwett]

Fascinating thread, and props for all the dedicated and unrelenting work to make this thing happen.

It seems like a bit of a vicious spiral though, the bike gets heavier and heavier and has more and more friction and wind resistance which means you need more and more power which means...

I don’t know much about touring these distances off road, but if you could eliminate the need to carry extra tires, and just carry tubes and a charger and a spare battery or two, wouldn’t a much lower resistance and lighter touring bike have the same range? I’m an amateur and routinely use only about 3-4 watt hours / mile with an average speed of 15mph, which would give you a massive range with two totally conventional 500wh batteries.

 

[retiredNH]

What happened over the summer? Did the OP ever start the trip? Did he finish?

 

[K PierreR]

What happened over the summer? Did the OP ever start the trip? Did he finish?

I did not end up going on that audacious trip. To many things stacked against me. Poor logistics, No one dumb enough to join me. Sketchy experience and pioneering the setup. In the end I opted for a series of shorter trips to iron out the problems and gain insight. I am still planning a long desert trip next summer or the summer after. I have someone who will join me the summer after next. Here are my journals from my short trips. https://ebikes.topicwise.com/doc/?o=3U8&doctype=journal

 

[K PierreR]

What I found out about traveling with a long range fast charging E bike is that you tend to trade range for speed and time off the bike instead of on the bike and slow. With the trailer and heavy load I could easily travel 70 -80 miles at 17-21 mph and put a lot of charge in for a one hour stop. I found charging points to be fairly easy to find enroute and tended to only travel 1.5-2 hours without a break. I found I could go a long ways in a day if I chose my breaks around charging. At times I was charging with a 15 amp charge and a 5 amp charger and could get as much as 890 Whr of charge in one hour of break. At higher loads and higher speeds I am pretty consistently over 20 Whr per mile. With 2,540 Whr of batteries in parallel I didn't find my self giving a rats ass about the mileage. I got charging down to setting up in about 5 minutes with most of my breaks around 40-45 minutes.
On pavement was pretty easy to hit the 100 mile mark and not feel pushed. Hitting the 100 miles mark was really tough with steep climbs and off road conditions. 70-80 was more attainable.

 

[vincent]

Very cool

hope you get to do the big ride this coming summer

Looking forward to more notes on how things are progressing and what you’re learning

 

[YVRrider]

I have gone with a lighter setup that holds promise. Run a 750watt battery which can last me most of the day and carry a spare 750 for the second day if
no charging available.
With the Satiator charger from Grin Tech both batteries can be charged back up to 90 % at 8 amps fairly quickly if not doing an overnight charge.
E bike touring has many limitations but has lots of potential. I now carry very little load on my bike since getting the trailer.
I do single track with this trailer as it has a shock and barely feel the difference with the handling of my bike.
Good to see more people willing to try things and experiment.
Cheers

 

[rich c]

I have gone with a lighter setup that holds promise. Run a 750watt battery which can last me most of the day and carry a spare 750 for the second day if
no charging available.
With the Satiator charger from Grin Tech both batteries can be charged back up to 90 % at 8 amps fairly quickly if not doing an overnight charge.
E bike touring has many limitations but has lots of potential. I now carry very little load on my bike since getting the trailer.
I do single track with this trailer as it has a shock and barely feel the difference with the handling of my bike.
Good to see more people willing to try things and experiment.
Cheers




View attachment 110564

I guess they don't have any logs on your single track area? It would really tough to bunny hop that trailer! No sharp switchbacks or steep valleys to a stream at the bottom either I assume.

 

[YVRrider]

It has a quick connect coupling so it,s not really an issue for the odd logs I have encountered. Lifting loaded trailer much easier than lifting the unloaded bike but its
easy to unsnap battery and water to reduce the weight by another 10 lbs. or so.
I am not doing downhill and jumps with this rig if thats what you were thinking , mainly exploring
fire roads and trails and staying away from vehicles wherever I can for a quite peaceful adventure.
Cheers

 

[webcurl]

I guess they don't have any logs on your single track area? It would really tough to bunny hop that trailer! No sharp switchbacks or steep valleys to a stream at the bottom either I assume.

Thanks for that, another factor for my own extended touring rig requirements...
Must be able to bunny hop logs!

 

[vincent]

How many people are doing single track when they go super long distance? I would think for the most part that’s on forest roads, paved roads etc?

I can imagine sometimes you might get into a situation where that’s an issue but probably not often


But that’s just me, I don’t do single track ever, but 90% of my riding is off-road

 

[retiredNH]

How many people are doing single track when they go super long distance? I would think for the most part that’s on forest roads, paved roads etc?

I can imagine sometimes you might get into a situation where that’s an issue but probably not often


But that’s just me, I don’t do single track ever, but 90% of my riding is off-road

If you look at the OP's earlier post (see the fourth one on the first page) you'll see that single track is aspirational. I think an honest answer is that you can't go cross country mostly on single track. In certain areas you can go quite a distance, as the OP showed, but for most of the country, you can't, especially once you leave the western US.