I just purchase the custom ride options for the Nyon. I am playing with different settings and would be curious to know what others have done. or are thinking of doing. My settings are posted below. In mode 1, I was trying to create an assist level that would just help to get me started and stop providing any assist at around 20 mph (actually shuts motor off, may lower to 15 mph). Mode 4 was the maximum assist, but not starting at 340% which is how Bosch programs the standard settings. Switching between standard and custom is a multi step process, so I felt I needed to provide max power as a safety factor when using my custom modes. On my 'wish list' from Bosch would be a setting that would let the rider cycle thru all 8 ride modes. My goal is to create setting that help me maximize my exercise routine. I like the motor support to decline as you gain speed and the standard setting provide the same amount of support thru the entire speed range. This is very much a work in process and I expect to see many modifications to the attached graph.
Custom Riding Modes for Nyon
- Thread starter gadgetguy
- Start date
Over50
Well-Known Member
I too am curious to hear what custom modes Nyon users have set and why they chose their settings.
I've tried a few so far. Two were similar - also to increase exercise. I basically brought the power levels down in all modes but kept them mostly constant across speed. The 3rd screen shot is from a lunch ride with the wife (15 miles) where I took Eco to 10% assist. That one behaved a little weird however and the motor seemed to cut out entirely when I was just gently pedaling.
I'm curious what would be the logic/use-cases for sloping the modes - either positively or negatively - such that the motor assist is highly variable across speeds. Would a rider create a negative slope to provide lots of power from a stop? Or for the expectation of hill climbing where more support is required at lower speeds? Conversely, would a rider create a positive slope under the logic that, as speed increases, it is a signal to the motor that the rider needs an increasing amount of support to maintain the speed?
I've tried a few so far. Two were similar - also to increase exercise. I basically brought the power levels down in all modes but kept them mostly constant across speed. The 3rd screen shot is from a lunch ride with the wife (15 miles) where I took Eco to 10% assist. That one behaved a little weird however and the motor seemed to cut out entirely when I was just gently pedaling.
I'm curious what would be the logic/use-cases for sloping the modes - either positively or negatively - such that the motor assist is highly variable across speeds. Would a rider create a negative slope to provide lots of power from a stop? Or for the expectation of hill climbing where more support is required at lower speeds? Conversely, would a rider create a positive slope under the logic that, as speed increases, it is a signal to the motor that the rider needs an increasing amount of support to maintain the speed?
I posted this thread in February. You are the first to respond, so thank you. I thought there would be more response but maybe their just aren't that many Nyon's in use yet. I ride mainly on paved streets in bike lanes for exercise mostly the same route. Climb about a 1,000 feet overall but the path is up and down. In mode 1, I start out with 75% assist and climb to 100% at 10 mph, after that my motor support declines to 45% and falls to zero at just under 20 mph. My reason for not starting at zero is that I like some assist from a full stop so I don't have to stand on the pedals to get moving. Some of the stops on my route have a grade (my front chain ring has 52 teeth) and I don't like to use the biggest gear in the rear (42 teeth) every time I stop at the base of a slope. My other reason for the 75% assist is making left turns in traffic. I try to get out of the way of cars as quickly as I can. Unless I am driving into a headwind or on a long climb I find that as my speed climbs I want less assist from the motor. My goal is to ride in the lowest custom level of assist and use the gears to keep my cadence at a minimum of 70 rpm. My mode 2 starts at 135%, climbs to 150% at about 10 mph and then falls to zero motor assist around 22 mph. Mainly use 2 when I reach a hill that I need help with. My goal is to increase my strength so that I can do my ride only in level 1. I never use custom 3. I created 4 as a power mode because getting into the bosch standard modes is too many steps. I start out 175% (thought might be hard on the motor to start at full power) and a little over 6 mph I reach max output for the motor at 340% and stay at max until motor cuts out around 28 mph. I think my mode 4 is redundant but I created it because it is just easier. I wish bosch would give the user the option of rotating thru 8 speeds with the plus and minus keys letting the user customize the order. I think what you do in custom is personal to what works best for you. It is interesting to hear what others have done and why they did it.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
There are a few scenarios and you alluded to them correctly.
- If you are training for fitness or leading a pack of regular road bike riders, you would need support at a certain cadence/band. Below that or above that you would need the motor power to be different.
- Let's say you are on a speed limit multi-use trail/lane, you would need assistance to get up to speed but once you hit 20mph, you would want minimal assistance and you could achieve that by using certain slopes.
Creating sharp slopes would feel like you are hitting the speed limit wall too quickly and you may want to smoothen those transition points. - Let's say I am commuting, I would create an aggressive positive slope up until 15mph (to get up to speed from a traffic stop) and then from 15-25mph, I would use a much less aggressive slope and beyond 25mph, I would have a negative slope because you know cruising at 28mph drains the battery faster or your commute route is not suited for that kind speeds.
Over50
Well-Known Member
I think I want to test #3. Particularly to see how much it improves my average speed and how much battery impact it has.
For me the standard modes are just fine most of the time. I usually ride about 50% off, 40% on eco, and 10% in tour.
I have two custom modes, one sensible, and one kinda silly:
Sometimes eco (55% assist) is not quite enough but tour (120% assist) is a bit too much, so Mode 1 is half way in between set at 100% across the speed range.
Mode 2 is full assist (300%) to get you off the line, then tapers back to mode 1 at 100%.
As has been suggested by others, this has several uses:
I have two custom modes, one sensible, and one kinda silly:
Sometimes eco (55% assist) is not quite enough but tour (120% assist) is a bit too much, so Mode 1 is half way in between set at 100% across the speed range.
Mode 2 is full assist (300%) to get you off the line, then tapers back to mode 1 at 100%.
As has been suggested by others, this has several uses:
- It is good for commuting with lots of traffic lights, and heavy traffic.
- It also is great if you get to a stop light and haven't downshifted several gears
- Its great if you're at the light with riders of standard bike who are looking down at you
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Lowndes
Member
50% with the motor off? Am I reading that right? You must live on flat terrain. No offense, but why have an E-Bike? If you're not using the motor that much, there are certainly much lighter bikes you can ride.For me the standard modes are just fine most of the time. I usually ride about 50% off, 40% on eco, and 10% in tour.
I have two custom modes, one sensible, and one kinda silly:
Sometimes eco (55% assist) is not quite enough but tour (120% assist) is a bit too much, so Mode 1 is half way in between set at 100% across the speed range.
Mode 2 is full assist (300%) to get you off the line, then tapers back to mode 1 at 100%.
As has been suggested by others, this has several uses:
- It is good for commuting with lots of traffic lights, and heavy traffic.
- It also is great if you get to a stop light and haven't downshifted several gears
- Its great if you're at the light with riders of standard bike who are looking down at you
Admittedly this mode is kinda silly, and could certainly use some massaging, but it actually rides kinda like an automatic gearbox. From a start there's plenty of torque, that drops off at about 14 mph, which is an easy cruising speed, almost without having to change gears. Incidentally, this is exactly how a Toyota Prius works. Low end electric torque allows the gas combustion engine to skip first and second gears, and kick in when the car is going fast enough to use the higher gears that get better gas milage.
I do think that being able to customize the modes like this is severely underrated. As mentioned by "over50" its great to be able to have more assist earlier in the riding season, and then taper it off as you get stronger as you train. Some of the other e-bikes that only have three fixed levels of assist was a big NOPE for me. Its like riding a three speed bike. Customizable assist is a huge selling point!
Several riders including myself have often wanted an assist level between ECO and TOUR. So the first mode I made was just that. It's perfect.
Having a positive slope (more assist with higher speed) I don't think is as practical, but could be useful in a time trial situation. I'd love to hear what others might use a positive slope for.
And in reply to "lowndes", I live at the top of a large hill. Anywhere I ride is down, down down to the half way point with the motor off, and some level of assist to get back home, so yes, I ride 50% with the motor off.
I could ride my lighter 16lb Cannondale, but to be honest, that bike has much tighter geometry, that make my toes go numb after 30 miles, because I'm older and not as flexible as I used to be.
I do think that being able to customize the modes like this is severely underrated. As mentioned by "over50" its great to be able to have more assist earlier in the riding season, and then taper it off as you get stronger as you train. Some of the other e-bikes that only have three fixed levels of assist was a big NOPE for me. Its like riding a three speed bike. Customizable assist is a huge selling point!
Several riders including myself have often wanted an assist level between ECO and TOUR. So the first mode I made was just that. It's perfect.
Having a positive slope (more assist with higher speed) I don't think is as practical, but could be useful in a time trial situation. I'd love to hear what others might use a positive slope for.
And in reply to "lowndes", I live at the top of a large hill. Anywhere I ride is down, down down to the half way point with the motor off, and some level of assist to get back home, so yes, I ride 50% with the motor off.
I could ride my lighter 16lb Cannondale, but to be honest, that bike has much tighter geometry, that make my toes go numb after 30 miles, because I'm older and not as flexible as I used to be.
I live in a very hilly area and use the motor maybe 40% of the time, and I'm a senior with health issues. Keep in mind that many of us don't use the motor going down a hill, or use it where it's flat. Simple geometry will tell you that you can't be going uphill more than half the time, at least not on a circular route!
So what's your beef? That we should use the motor to set new speed records on the flats?
michael mcvey
Member
I recently purchased a Cube Kathmandu with Bosch Gen 4 (625 watt battery) and had the Nyon installed. I set it up as follows:
Read as (30%-5.0) means 30% assist at 5.0 mph.
With this configuration I was able to get 166 miles on a charge on a test ride. I will be traveling the California coast with (panniers/hotel) multi days at average of 100 miles with one day at 125 miles. This configuration will work perfectly with battery to spare most days.
I have completed this trip 9 times, 8 on a regular bike and once on a Ebike (Giant RoadE with 2 - 500 watt batteries).
According to the Nyon with a test run, average power from rider 79%, from engine 21%. This is perfect for me as all I really wanted/needed is about 20% more energy than I have to give.
On a trip I expect to spend most of the time in 'Conserve', then 'Regular', 'Hills as needed and seldom in 'Power' (reference table above).
The Nyon with the ability to fully customize is such a great feature. Totally negates the need more bigger batteries.
Read as (30%-5.0) means 30% assist at 5.0 mph.
With this configuration I was able to get 166 miles on a charge on a test ride. I will be traveling the California coast with (panniers/hotel) multi days at average of 100 miles with one day at 125 miles. This configuration will work perfectly with battery to spare most days.
I have completed this trip 9 times, 8 on a regular bike and once on a Ebike (Giant RoadE with 2 - 500 watt batteries).
According to the Nyon with a test run, average power from rider 79%, from engine 21%. This is perfect for me as all I really wanted/needed is about 20% more energy than I have to give.
On a trip I expect to spend most of the time in 'Conserve', then 'Regular', 'Hills as needed and seldom in 'Power' (reference table above).
The Nyon with the ability to fully customize is such a great feature. Totally negates the need more bigger batteries.
Some basic graphs here:
ebike-mtb.com
New Bosch MAGIC TOUR mode – a progressive mode with increased range and improved responsiveness, for Moustache only?
Moustache are updating their Bosch e-bikes with the progressive MAGIC TOUR mode. Can this latest software increase the range of your battery?
ebike-mtb.com
Matt Penfold
Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
On a circular route the amount of climbing will be matched by the amount of descending, but that there is nothing that requires the climbs to be of equal slope or distance.
D
Deleted member 18083
Guest
Riding downhill to the end of our road takes me about 1 minute; returning uphill the same way, to complete what is essentially a 'circular route', takes about 3 minutes.
- 25% of the time downhill
- 75% of the time uphill
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I used "time" in a figurative sense, not literal. You seemed to have missed that. The thing you and Matt don't understand is that the energy use (or requirement) is a function of elevation change and speed. At the speeds a bike will go up a hill, drag from wind won't be a big factor compared to the energy used for climbing. The energy for climbing is the same regardless of the pitch of the hill - a steep hill will take the same amount of energy as a longer, more gradual hill, as long as the elevation change is the same. This is just basic physics.
In theory, the energy you use climbing a hill will be recovered when you go down a hill - hence the speed without pedaling or motor assist. In practice, we might lose some of that energy if we brake, like I often do. I don't like 30 MPH speeds... If you like to maximize your speed even downhill, wind drag will also begin to take its toll, although I haven't run the math recently, so I can't tell you how much.
The power needed to overcome drag = 1/2 * v^3 * Cd.
Simplisitically, being in a tuck is helpful, but cutting velocity reduces power requirements to the third power.
So, if you're car is low on gas, or your bike battery is low on electricity, the best thing to do is slow down.
Simplisitically, being in a tuck is helpful, but cutting velocity reduces power requirements to the third power.
So, if you're car is low on gas, or your bike battery is low on electricity, the best thing to do is slow down.
Matt Penfold
Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
"I used "time" in a figurative sense, not literal. You seemed to have missed that. The thing you and Matt don't understand is that the energy use (or requirement) is a function of elevation change and speed. At the speeds a bike will go up a hill, drag from wind won't be a big factor compared to the energy used for climbing. The energy for climbing is the same regardless of the pitch of the hill - a steep hill will take the same amount of energy as a longer, more gradual hill, as long as the elevation change is the same. This is just basic physics."
Except it is not, since on a steeper climb you are much more likely to use a higher power mode.
Except it is not, since on a steeper climb you are much more likely to use a higher power mode.
Matt Penfold
Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Excellent explanation!
You do not interpret the phenomenon correctly. @retiredNH is right.
The reason you switch to the higher power mode is to get energy necessary to increase the potential energy of the body (bike + biker + cargo) that is Delta Ep = m * g * Delta h. It is enough to say climbing a hill with 1000 ft of elevation gain for body mass of 120 kg and motor efficiency of 0.8 would consume 125 Wh of battery charge if the rider only used the throttle. And that figure is for the potential energy gain only!
Assuming there is a 1000 ft tall hill and there would be a grade such that a traditional cyclist could climb the hill on their own leg power, it would take time t. Motor assistance simply makes the climb faster; the more assistance is applied, the shorter the ride. More power but shorter climb time makes the battery consumption virtually the same.
P.S. Basic physics cannot fail. If a hill is very steep, it is still possible to climb it by foot. Now, the person is only 90 kg (not 120) and can walk very very slowly to reach the summit, meaning that low power over long time has to be applied.
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