CrossCurrent S - New Model

[ebikeHIgh]

Initiated a call and email today. Got an invoice for L brushed but online sales assured me they are sending a s/t brushed. Phone said I ordered a size L, could not confirm if switched. Received shipping info. Estimated 10 days. I hope I am getting the the correct size, possibly with 715 brakes and headlight included. Not sure of my options if size L. Those who are getting theirs from lbs are in a perfect situation.

Would the kryptonite faghettaboutitt mini or standard u lock be best?

@doyle calling is the only option. Reference posted shipped #s and find out where you are in queue. Check Reddit experiences to make sure you get the correct color/size combo.

 

[ROCebike]

@ROCebike That is more information for those who are expecting a size medium black in this batch. There are 4 sizes currently available. 22" is in the next batch. Not one m st made in black, despite being one of the first orders placed. So that 15 combinations is down to 11. The m black aren't available to those who ordered BEFORE the cross current s was announced. People who have been asking for a black cross current 2017. This is not an isolated incident, it is a pattern.

From facebook comments: "I called sales right after I ordered our two CCS just after the first of the month. I wanted to make sure the frame sizes and colors we ordered were available. I was told at that time only 50 some of the 280 or so shipment had sold, so there would be no problem. I hope they're shipping in the order pre-sales were made."

"I just got a note that my pre-ordered bike won't be available in black

. Anyone else had this happen? I do sort of care about it. They offered a red or Al - anyone want to swap a stock M with me who ordered a black? Normally the Al costs 99 more. On something so expensive I'd really like to get the color I ordered, and ordered it early enough/and stock that I really should have gotten that.. thanks! Looking forward to this bike so much..."

"I ordered my bike in May, back before the CrossCurrent had an "S". My bike was supposed to be delivered in July. I was given no notice about the changes to my order and delivery time, I found the information myself on the Juiced website. At that point I had to contact them 7 times, over the course of two weeks, before they got back to me. I was told then that I would have my bike August 10. I currently have an email in to the support desk, still waiting for a reply. Communication is a BIG problem here. This company spends far too much time hype products for future sales, taking away from their ability to take care of their existing responsibilities."

This is not a isolated "you're two days late, where's my bike?," situation. It is purely questioning communication because it is there is a lack of consumer confidence right now. Three different incidents where either the bike wasn't produced, inventory wasn't communicated until too late (a repeat incident for the same customer,), or bike was told it was shipped when it wasn't. I'm not calling them liars, but there is more information for prospective people to consider. It would if we both great if worked together to compile a timeline of Juiced responses for the Hyperfat. Maybe we can reconsider making a new thread to separate bike reviews/info from juiced business reviews/info.

Fair enough. It just seems like Medium black was not produced in the first batch. Perhaps a minimum batch quantity issue, I'm guessing 25 as a minimum batch. If yours was the only one ordered, it does seem reasonable that they would not make it as a one off. But you should have been informed accordingly.

Regarding a lock, I'm very happy with my Abus Bordo Granit. I like the form factor, it's easy to attach to the seat post and folding style looks sleek compared to chains and cables. Also more versatile than standard U locks.

 

[mal robot]

I took my first ride today after my LBS adjusted the front brake / tensioned the rear spokes. This thing is crazy fast and doesn't even seem to be trying that hard to get me to 28MPH. It's certainly more powerful than the Stromer ST1 I tried, although a bit noisier.

 

[Tora Harris]

Fair enough. It just seems like Medium black was not produced in the first batch. Perhaps a minimum batch quantity issue, I'm guessing 25 as a minimum batch. If yours was the only one ordered, it does seem reasonable that they would not make it as a one off. But you should have been informed accordingly.

Regarding a lock, I'm very happy with my Abus Bordo Granit. I like the form factor, it's easy to attach to the seat post and folding style looks sleek compared to chains and cables. Also more versatile than standard U locks.

We made a bunch but someone right away bought most of them.

 

[Capshroud]

Our CCS bikes came yesterday, and we're loving them so far. A few minor adjustments needed, but nothing that's been a problem. It took a wire tie on the front fork to keep the brake tube away from the spokes, and the fender clearance also need some tweaking. The biggest hassle has been getting the batteries to lock into place, but I'm hoping that will get smoother with use.

But damn, they are fast and fun!

 

[mal robot]

What panniers are everyone planning to use with this bike?

 

[doyle]

The complaining totally stopped. It sounds like pretty much everyone with a preorder has a shipment now (I do, 20xx). I saw two containers on the Juiced Facebook. They had a guy's order slip posted with something like 2250 (none of his info anonymized - incredible - there was actually a comment chiding them for this that got deleted, without the video getting fixed - it seriously shows his home address). I am well below 2250 so I think it's safe to say that's our latest confirmed shipment.

 

[mal robot]

Anyone lose wattage in S mode due to engine heat? I was only able to pull 350 watts out of the motor coming home tonight as the motor temperature hit 42+ C (ambient temperature was 20 C) as opposed to being able to pull 1000 watts at the beginning of the ride.

 

[Tora Harris]

The power power will not be decreased until the temp goes past 80C. The power is likely decreasing as the voltage is low from your image. What do you have the low voltage setting set at?

 

[mal robot]

The power power will not be decreased until the temp goes past 80C. The power is likely decreasing as the voltage is low from your image. What do you have the low voltage setting set at?

43

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Anyone lose wattage in S mode due to engine heat? I was only able to pull 350 watts out of the motor coming home tonight as the motor temperature hit 42+ C (ambient temperature was 20 C) as opposed to being able to pull 1000 watts at the beginning of the ride.

How many miles have you ridden during that time since you last charged your battery? It seems like the limiting factor there was the battery's capacity to discharge which is largely influenced by the state of charge (aside from other factors like, battery temp, state of balance among the cells, consistency of battery chemistry between cells, etc..).

 

[Tora Harris]

43

With that setting of low voltage at 43V, the power level will be reduced already at starting at around 46V

 

[Fran Fabrizio]

It sounds like pretty much everyone with a preorder has a shipment now (I do, 20xx).

Nope, it depends on the options you picked. I'm 20xx as well, and I'm not getting a bike from the first container (which I'm fine with as I knew that was a possibility). I've checked in with the sales staff every couple of weeks, and right now I'm looking at early November.

 

[paultreny]

The complaining totally stopped. It sounds like pretty much everyone with a preorder has a shipment now (I do, 20xx). I saw two containers on the Juiced Facebook. They had a guy's order slip posted with something like 2250 (none of his info anonymized - incredible - there was actually a comment chiding them for this that got deleted, without the video getting fixed - it seriously shows his home address). I am well below 2250 so I think it's safe to say that's our latest confirmed shipment.

My order was in the 2040s, placed on August 14th, well before they stopped taking pre-orders for this shipment. I was assured by support when I emailed after placing the order that my bike would be on the initial shipment, but it turns out that is not the case. So now I'm stuck waiting until November, which is frustrating to say the least.

It definitely depends on what model you order, I think, given the initial batch was only about 200 bikes. (I ordered a Large frame in Silver with the 17.4 Ah battery)

Tora did call me initially which I appreciated, but now I've gotten nothing but crickets by email/web chat since August 31. I'm seriously considering just cancelling the order and placing one in the spring, since at this point I won't have much time with the bike before the winter, and I don't like keeping all that money tied up without receiving the product!

Still, the bikes look awesome, so I'm glad people are enjoying them.

 

[Fran Fabrizio]

It definitely depends on what model you order, I think, given the initial batch was only about 200 bikes. (I ordered a Large frame in Silver with the 17.4 Ah battery)

Tora did call me initially which I appreciated, but now I've gotten nothing but crickets by email/web chat since August 31. I'm seriously considering just cancelling the order and placing one in the spring, since at this point I won't have much time with the bike, and I don't like keeping all that money tied up without receiving the product!

It's really a bummer that several of you have reported no responses to your emails. Here's a trick I've learned - it's better to open a new ticket rather than reply to an ongoing thread if you want a quick response. Every time I've opened a new ticket I've gotten a quick response, but I've never received a response to a follow-up question on a ticket.

I ordered a large frame in red with 17.4 battery, just for another data point. I do hope that our pre-orders come with the upgraded brakes even though we're in the second shipment, as the ordering site said that "all preorders will come with the upgraded brakes". Tora, can you speak to this? Throwing in another upgrade (say the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires or something) would be a nice customer service touch for those of us who pre-ordered and didn't get in the first shipment and now have to wait extra months.

 

[ebikeHIgh]

"These sorts of delays and changes are typical on new products manufactured in small batch (esp. in China). It doesn't surprise me at all that in the first batch of less than 300 bikes of a brand new design, they don't have every frame size/frame style/paint color combo available yet, or that a shipment is delayed coming from China. Is that fun for the buyer? No, but it's not that surprising. Waiting for red instead of black might be the compromise you need to make. Unless you've asked for a refund and they've refused, I don't think it's worth your time or energy to complain. If you want to be among the first to have a bike that has the specs of the CCS at the price point of the CCS, these are the sorts of hiccups to expect. But it was clear when I ordered this bike that I might not get much riding in this year on it, and I'm prepared to pull my pre-order if I decide there's a better option out there. But for right now for me, I'm ok to wait.The good news is there are plenty of other great e-bikes from larger companies that have stock right now and you can get through your LBS and even take home today. If you value a smooth and easy buying experience over the latest specs or the price point, that's totally the way to go. Pre-ordering a new product design in an immature industry that costs a significant chunk of change ain't for the faint of heart, I can tell you that much."

Juice Response when I asked about Tektro 350 or 715 brakes on CC-S

The CCS is spec with the new HD-E350, we had a limited number of bikes with fitted with the remaining HD-E715, those have been all pre-ordered. Bikes ordered now will have HD-E350 scheduled to arrive in October.

Juiced Bikes Support Team

 

[Andy_in_CA]

Ok I'm a bit of a noob what is the difference between the 350 vs 715?

 

[Fran Fabrizio]

I don't feel entitled to a free upgrade eBikeHigh (sorry, I think you edited your post after posting, but you previously said I felt entitled to such). I suggested it would be good customer service. Remember, we're in agreement that juiced has plenty of room for customer service improvements. That would be one way to make a gesture towards customers affected by delays this year (including you, including all the hyperfat folks).

As for the brakes, when I ordered the spec sheet indeed said 350s so if I get 350s, so be it. They're still good hydraulic brakes. But the site also said preorders would come with 715s, so there was contradictory information and so I'm asking for clarification. The info you received still isn't clear since it says "bikes ordered now" and we're talking about bikes that were pre-ordered.

Our whole conversation earlier was about what to expect from the process when pre-ordering a bike that's still being designed and manufactured from a small company. Doesn't mean I like it any more than you do or that I think the business practices of juiced are amazing, just that they are not uncommon and I therefore had different expectations. I believe I was the one who said that unless you have appetite for changes and delays, do not order this bike. So I'm obviously not surprised with delays and changes. However, it never hurts to ask the company for clarification and suggest ways they could improve their customer service.

When I get the bike, it will represent tremendous value for the price and I'll be very happy with the bike.

If my experience with the company continues on it's current path, about Juiced itself I'll feel "yep, this is a typical experience from a small company struggling to keep up with a popular product that lots of people want." They could choose to provide amazing customer service by doing some of the things I or others have suggested, and then my opinion of them as a business would rise from average and typical to something better, and that'd be great. But my goal isn't to make Juiced a great company, it's to get a great bike. In fact, it's specifically because it's a great bike that I'm willing to deal with the kind of headaches that come with dealing with a small company that's struggling with their customer service and order fulfillment. I also believe I said earlier that if a better bike value proposition would come along, I'd cancel my order with Juiced. So, that's where my priorities lie. In the meantime, it's clear that Tora is passionate about e-bikes and thoughtfully designs affordable e-bikes, and that's the company's strength, and it's also clear that stellar business processes are not his or the company's strength. This is an opportunity for Tora and Juiced to learn from all these service and fulfillment challenges this year and do something that makes it more likely that we'll order from them again, but that's a separate thing.

 

[doyle]

Juice Response when I asked about Tektro 350 or 715 brakes on CC-S

The CCS is spec with the new HD-E350, we had a limited number of bikes with fitted with the remaining HD-E715, those have been all pre-ordered. Bikes ordered now will have HD-E350 scheduled to arrive in October.

Juiced Bikes Support Team

They really have a knack for not answering questions completely. So was the first container the only one that got 715s, or did anyone that made the late summer/early fall preorder get them? That was what the website said would happen, but this statement is ambiguous. I think most people honestly don't care one way or another which brakeset they get and trust that they specced something good. What's frustrating is the apparent tendency to overpromise and underdeliver with things like this. If they'd just said we have a limited number of HD-E715 and an unspecified number of early preorders will get them, nobody would have been upset and there wouldn't have been any confusion.

 

[Fran Fabrizio]

I think it's pretty apparent at this point that they did not expect to sell out the entire first container as pre-orders. All the language they had on their site during the pre-order period and all that has happened since points to this. They said that all pre-orders would arrive late August and ship soon thereafter, and that all pre-orders would have the upgraded brakes. Clearly they were expecting that pre-orders would only be a fraction of that first shipment. Oops. Growing pains. Will be interesting to see if the company learns from this, which will be shown both in how they handle rollouts of future generations of bikes but also in how they treat those of us who do not have our bikes yet and feel excluded from the brake upgrade that was described.

There's some business 101 going on here. They have a product and price point that has generated high demand and currently has little competition in the market. This is why we're all willing to put up with the headaches - because we want the bike we've decided is the right bike for us and there's nowhere else to go get it at this price. So that's opened an opportunity where a company can currently do things like work connections in China and do some thoughtful design and sourcing of parts and put together a compelling bike package that seriously undercuts the competitor's pricing and entices people to pre-order and be early adopters. That gap will close, it always does - e-bikes will continue to get more popular, tech will get better, part prices will come down as manufacturing increases, and that market opportunity will be harder and harder to exploit. Of course there are companies right now looking at the CrossCurrent S and figuring out how can I assemble that cheaper or build a better bike for the same price? They'll eventually figure it out, then Juiced will need to either have to find a different, less mature segment of the market to attack, or find other ways to differentiate themselves.

This is where good customer service now could pay dividends later. As consumers that's what would make us loyal repeat buyers. On the other hand, it could be a perfectly valid business plan to decide that generating repeat buyers is not a priority and that they're always going to look to ride that wave of bringing the first truly affordable well-spec'ed bikes to different segments of the e-bike market, or some other market altogether, such that they aren't competing with many other products in the marketplace and therefore they will continue to have a customer stream. As a company, they have limited resources and although of course most companies want to do well in all aspects of their business, these niche companies in immature markets rarely have the resources and experience to pull it all off, so they play to their strengths (which in Juiced's case is clearly on the design side). As consumers, we of course want it all - great designs at a great price with great customer service sooner than everyone else. There are very few companies who figure out how to do that well consistently while in immature markets. Once things become more commodity it's relatively easier to do that, and you see lots of market consolidation at that point. There are way too many small e-bike companies right now - the marketplace will work itself out and it will be interesting to observe how that plays out over the next several years.