Creo "Wheel Circumference" setting

[bayareabikeman]

Hi,

• What is the wheel circumference setting in the Mission Control app used for?
• It is primarily for speed detection when you track your rides via Mission Control?
• Does it actually affect how the motor assist works?
• How is the value set? It doesn't allow me to do so. Is it set by the dealer, or it is automatic?
• In addition to the 700x28C Wheelset that came with the bike, I have a 650B x 47 gravel Wheelset, but I don't see the wheel circumference value change even after riding with the gravel Wheelset.

Thanks.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The wheel circumference is to translate the rotational speed of the rear wheel into the e-bike speed and distance ridden data. It also affects the Odometer data. It is a Specialized dealer to set the proper Wheel Circumference in your Creo firmware (it is a value which is set not calculated).

The problem is you would need to see the dealer every time you swapped your wheel set. It is even not guaranteed that your current WhC value is correct for any of your wheel sets!

You might ignore that and have incorrect speed and distance reported. I have by-passed that by using a bike GPS computer that can connect to the SL system via ANT+. Wahoo ELEMNT and most of Garmin Edge computers can do it. With Wahoo, you can calibrate the WhC as stored in the GPS computer. Garmin is even said to be capable to calculate its WhC automatically against the GPS data.

Can wrong WhC value affect your Creo performance? Yes. If you are unlucky, Creo thinks you are riding faster than you actually do and the speed limiter motor cut-off will be applied too early, reducing your max assisted speed.

 

[kahn]

Hi,

• What is the wheel circumference setting in the Mission Control app used for?
• It is primarily for speed detection when you track your rides via Mission Control?
• Does it actually affect how the motor assist works?
• How is the value set? It doesn't allow me to do so. Is it set by the dealer, or it is automatic?
• In addition to the 700x28C Wheelset that came with the bike, I have a 650B x 47 gravel Wheelset, but I don't see the wheel circumference value change even after riding with the gravel Wheelset.

Thanks.

I guess I'd be in the minority but I believe that a value like wheel circumference should be a user alterable value. So, that as you suggest, you can change the wheels and be able to reset the value. I really see no reason that a dealer has to control that value.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I believe that a value like wheel circumference should be a user alterable value.

It should be allowed in +/-10% range. It is not. The reason is big brands are afraid the option would lead to hampering with the speed restriction.

For instance, my certified road legal 45 km/h Vado 5.0 has the WhC value set to crazy 2300 mm. As it is a type approved e-bike, even the dealer cannot change this figure!
This story is true. The Brand Store is used to changing the WhC value for their customers. The technician started connecting different diagnosis tools to my Vado. Eventually, he connected the e-bike to a PC with Turbo Studio software. Stupefied, he asked me to come and showed me the screen:
-- I really cannot understand it. The figure of 2300 mm is read-only here!

 

[Marcela]

As Stefan said, we're not adults you know, and nobody knows who to hold accountable or who to blame anymore and we're certainly not responsible for our own actions.

 

[kahn]

As Stefan said, we're not adults you know, and nobody knows who to hold accountable or who to blame anymore and we're certainly not responsible for our own actions.

It is interesting that the manufacturers have imposed these restrictions. Similar restrictions are not generally imposed on cars or motorcycles. Owners can tune them as they wish.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Similar restrictions are not generally imposed on cars or motorcycles.

It is because the speed limit for cars or motorcycles is enforced.
I know it is more relaxed in the United States but Europe is quite serious about e-bike laws. Taken into account the volume of e-bikes selling in Europe, the strict rules do not surprise me much. (And it is getting worse and worse).

P.S. You American ladies and gentlemen can at least ride your road e-bikes at 28 mph! Damn!

 

[bayareabikeman]

Duh, why didn't I think of the speed limit for the assist! The bike shop had to install a speed sensor on the second wheel set. What if you don't have a sensor? The bike will refuse to provide assist?

 

[mschwett]

Duh, why didn't I think of the speed limit for the assist! The bike shop had to install a speed sensor on the second wheel set. What if you don't have a sensor? The bike will refuse to provide assist?

correct, no sensor = error / no assist. flashing red and blue bars on the display.

 

[Sten.Lindberg]

Any smart IT guys around,that has figurered out how to get around this limitation? IF I was to install a Planet3, and IF I wanted to log proper speed and distance, I would install a Garmin speed sensor and disable the Speed sensor signals from my Creo. And in the same lane, my Creo records of travelled distance would only log 1/3 of the travelled distance. But that may increase the second hand price if I ever want to sell it. Indeed not something I expect for long time. Lovely bike - Masterpiece

 

[dollarbin]

I've been wondering about this. I noted the set wheel circumference several times over the lifetime of my bike and I've noticed that it's been changed. When I purchased my 2020 Vado 5.0 in 2019 the wheel circumference was set to 86.22 inches (2.19 m), then at some point in late 2020 it was changed and by early 2022 it was 90.28 inches (2.29 m). After a warranty motor replacement in March 2022 the circumference is 90.55 inches (2.30 m). Looking at the difference between distance as recorded by the bike and distance calculated from recorded from GPS coordinates, the 2.3 m wheel value overestimates distance (and speed) by about 4%.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've been wondering about this. I noted the set wheel circumference several times over the lifetime of my bike and I've noticed that it's been changed. When I purchased my 2020 Vado 5.0 in 2019 the wheel circumference was set to 86.22 inches (2.19 m), then at some point in late 2020 it was changed and by early 2022 it was 90.28 inches (2.29 m). After a warranty motor replacement in March 2022 the circumference is 90.55 inches (2.30 m). Looking at the difference between distance as recorded by the bike and distance calculated from recorded from GPS coordinates, the 2.3 m wheel value overestimates distance (and speed) by about 4%.

Just a comment: Europeans use three significant digits for the wheel circumference, and we prefer millimetres. For instance, a pretty good estimate of the wheel circumference for 51-622 Specialized Electrak 2.0 Armadillo tyre is 2.255 m (2,255 mm). Meanwhile, my 45 km/h Euro Vado 5.0 has the WhC set to 2.300 m (2,300 mm) in the firmware and that value is "read only" for legal reasons even if it is totally wrong.