Creo turbo SL - how to measure actual wattage capacity of battery

[Creo rider]

I have had my Creo SL Expert for a bit over a year now - and it still remains one of the best bikes I've ever had. I charge the battery pretty well after every ride (range anxiety ...), so that's in excess of 200 charge cycles now. My question is how to measure the remaining total capacity of the internal (or RE) battery. I realise that with time and charging cycles the original 320Whr will deteriorate somewhat - but by how much? Having the Expert model with Mastermind TCU, using the Blevo app is not possible unfortunately (as far as I know). The Mission Control app reads the battery health as "100%" but I don't believe that is telling me anything specific about remaining battery capacity. Any thoughts? I should add that I have not noticed any change in apparent battery range, but then again I rarely use more than 50% and I ride more and more with the motor off, so it's very hard to compare now to when I first started with the bike.

 

[rayray]

I have had my Creo SL Expert for a bit over a year now - and it still remains one of the best bikes I've ever had. I charge the battery pretty well after every ride (range anxiety ...), so that's in excess of 200 charge cycles now. My question is how to measure the remaining total capacity of the internal (or RE) battery. I realise that with time and charging cycles the original 320Whr will deteriorate somewhat - but by how much? Having the Expert model with Mastermind TCU, using the Blevo app is not possible unfortunately (as far as I know). The Mission Control app reads the battery health as "100%" but I don't believe that is telling me anything specific about remaining battery capacity. Any thoughts? I should add that I have not noticed any change in apparent battery range, but then again I rarely use more than 50% and I ride more and more with the motor off, so it's very hard to compare now to when I first started with the bike.

I’ve also had my Creo for over a year, charge after nearly every ride, and haven’t seen any loss of capacity. Mission Control will always show 100%, but I use the BLevo app, which supposedly provides an accurate measurement of battery health, and it also says 100%.

Honestly, although I’ll admit I check it occasionally, I don’t spend time worrying about it, because I’m simply not going to change my behavior. I’ll just deal with whatever happens.

 

[kahn]

I’ve also had my Creo for over a year, charge after nearly every ride, and haven’t seen any loss of capacity. Mission Control will always show 100%, but I use the BLevo app, which supposedly provides an accurate measurement of battery health, and it also says 100%.

Honestly, although I’ll admit I check it occasionally, I don’t spend time worrying about it, because I’m simply not going to change my behavior. I’ll just deal with whatever happens.

I think I do see a loss of battery power in my Creo. Well, the percentage left on my rides appears to be less than I recall. The bike/battery was two years in March. I do charge after each ride, like others - range anxiety. I don't know how far my next ride might be and so I want a topped off battery. Hopefully, if/when replacement is necessary there will be a replacement available.

 

[Calcoaster]

I have had my Creo SL Expert for a bit over a year now - and it still remains one of the best bikes I've ever had. I charge the battery pretty well after every ride (range anxiety ...), so that's in excess of 200 charge cycles now. My question is how to measure the remaining total capacity of the internal (or RE) battery. I realise that with time and charging cycles the original 320Whr will deteriorate somewhat - but by how much? Having the Expert model with Mastermind TCU, using the Blevo app is not possible unfortunately (as far as I know). The Mission Control app reads the battery health as "100%" but I don't believe that is telling me anything specific about remaining battery capacity. Any thoughts? I should add that I have not noticed any change in apparent battery range, but then again I rarely use more than 50% and I ride more and more with the motor off, so it's very hard to compare now to when I first started with the bike.

You can see the battery watt hour capacity with Mission Control. Turn the bike on, start MC and select ‘Ride’, like you’re going to use it to record a ride. Then select stats and hold down one of the data windows to bring up options to display. One is the battery watt hour amount. If you fully charge it first, you’ll see that max value. This is with my pre-mastermind Creo, not sure if mastermind works the same way but it’s worth a try.

 

[scrambler]

The only true reliable way to get the battery capacity would be to use a device like below to discharge it completely after a full charge.

https://www.amazon.com/MakerHawk-Electronic-Adjustable-Intelligent-Resistance/dp/B07F3NHHST/ref=sr_1_6?hvadid=627344918319&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9032109&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1516291889216504268&hvtargid=kwd-1393862922174&hydadcr=13147_13399442&keywords=battery%2Bload%2Bcapacity%2Btester&qid=1690319884&sr=8-6&th=1

That said if it ends up showing less that what is advertised, you would have needed to do it when the battery was new, in order to know if it has decreased or if the advertised number are inaccurate .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When you really think about it, the actual wattage of your batteries is less important than the actual battery range. Older Specialized e-bikes get excellent Range prediction in BLEvo, and the Mastermind TCD-w 2 and TCU 2 give not only Range but also Range Trend.

For what it is worth, I know I should start my long full power Vado rides on the "black" (weakest) battery and end them on the "blue" (the best) one, with the "gray" battery in between. I think I could safely ride my Vado 6.0 for at least 250 km on three batteries if I could stand such a long ride myself!

 

[Calcoaster]

The only true reliable way to get the battery capacity would be to use a device like below to discharge it completely after a full charge.

https://www.amazon.com/MakerHawk-Electronic-Adjustable-Intelligent-Resistance/dp/B07F3NHHST/ref=sr_1_6?hvadid=627344918319&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9032109&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1516291889216504268&hvtargid=kwd-1393862922174&hydadcr=13147_13399442&keywords=battery%2Bload%2Bcapacity%2Btester&qid=1690319884&sr=8-6&th=1

That said if it ends up showing less that what is advertised, you would have needed to do it when the battery was new, in order to know if it has decreased or if the advertised number are inaccurate .

Not sure if that device would give the battery pack watt hr. capacity. It looks to me like a constant current load tester that would be helpful testing individual cells or power supplies. And I wouldn’t ever completely discharge any lithium ion battery cell or pack.

When my Creo was new, at 100% charge, MC showed 322 w hrs. Now after 3300 miles and 49 charge cycles it shows 318 w hrs. I think that’s good enough for a quick test and battery health report.

 

[scrambler]

It would.
The way they work is by running a controlled load and measuring the power going through over the course of the discharge, therefore calculating the total Wh of the discharge.
The BSM should disconnect the battery when reaching the safety limit.
Here is a usage example to measure the overall capacity of three different packs connected in parallel

that said may be MC is good enough, but we have no way to know for sure unless someone has validated it with such a device

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When my Creo was new, at 100% charge, MC showed 322 w hrs. Now after 3300 miles and 49 charge cycles it shows 318 w hrs. I think that’s good enough for a quick test and battery health report.

It makes sense. BLEvo was reporting 320 Wh for the main battery and 160 Wh for the first Range Extender when both were brand new. My feeling is MC is on a slightly optimistic side but it looks SL batteries age pretty well.

 

[Creo rider]

Thanks so much Calcoaster - that works perfectly well. Exactly what I was looking for - brilliant. Checking today, fully charged my internal battery is reading 293Whr, after 236 charge cycles. If it started at the advertised 320Whr - that's around 8% decrease over that time (around 16 months) and that many charge cycles. I think that's probably ok, and certainly not impacting on my rides or range in any obvious way at this stage. Ideally maybe I should have been only charging the battery every 2nd ride (or so) as I've only used more than 50% of the battery in 19% of rides - but I can't help but like to have a fully charged battery at the start of every ride (plans change sometimes ...). Anyway, something I can now monitor, so thanks again.

 

[Calcoaster]

Thanks so much Calcoaster - that works perfectly well. Exactly what I was looking for - brilliant. Checking today, fully charged my internal battery is reading 293Whr, after 236 charge cycles. If it started at the advertised 320Whr - that's around 8% decrease over that time (around 16 months) and that many charge cycles. I think that's probably ok, and certainly not impacting on my rides or range in any obvious way at this stage. Ideally maybe I should have been only charging the battery every 2nd ride (or so) as I've only used more than 50% of the battery in 19% of rides - but I can't help but like to have a fully charged battery at the start of every ride (plans change sometimes ...). Anyway, something I can now monitor, so thanks again.

You’re welcome! And fyi- one charge cycle is counted when the battery accepts its entire charge capacity regardless of whether it happens in one or several charge sessions. So if you rode from full to empty, charging up to full again counts as one charge cycle, or charging a fraction of a full charge after each short ride counts as one cycle when the sum of the many charges equals the total battery capacity.
That said, another battery fact many EV studies have shown is that batteries last longest when they are not charged to 100% or discharged to 0%. If most of your rides use less than 50%, maybe consider stopping your charge at 80%. The last MC update added this function as an option but it has a well known bug in it that disables it after a handful of charges.

 

[Creo rider]

You’re welcome! And fyi- one charge cycle is counted when the battery accepts its entire charge capacity regardless of whether it happens in one or several charge sessions. So if you rode from full to empty, charging up to full again counts as one charge cycle, or charging a fraction of a full charge after each short ride counts as one cycle when the sum of the many charges equals the total battery capacity.
That said, another battery fact many EV studies have shown is that batteries last longest when they are not charged to 100% or discharged to 0%. If most of your rides use less than 50%, maybe consider stopping your charge at 80%. The last MC update added this function as an option but it has a well known bug in it that disables it after a handful of charges.

Thanks again - more useful information. MC actually tells me there have been 120 charging cycles, so that now makes complete sense with your explanation (I had thought that like with the odometer somehow the velociraptor device had changed the number). I haven't tried the 80% charging limit yet - I might give it a go. Thanks

 

[Mike_V]

Thanks so much Calcoaster - that works perfectly well. Exactly what I was looking for - brilliant. Checking today, fully charged my internal battery is reading 293Whr, after 236 charge cycles. If it started at the advertised 320Whr - that's around 8% decrease over that time (around 16 months) and that many charge cycles. I think that's probably ok, and certainly not impacting on my rides or range in any obvious way at this stage. Ideally maybe I should have been only charging the battery every 2nd ride (or so) as I've only used more than 50% of the battery in 19% of rides - but I can't help but like to have a fully charged battery at the start of every ride (plans change sometimes ...). Anyway, something I can now monitor, so thanks again.

GO ! Charge it full, get everything you paid for and ride ! GO !

 

[Mike_V]

I have had my Creo SL Expert for a bit over a year now - and it still remains one of the best bikes I've ever had. I charge the battery pretty well after every ride (range anxiety ...), so that's in excess of 200 charge cycles now. My question is how to measure the remaining total capacity of the internal (or RE) battery. I realise that with time and charging cycles the original 320Whr will deteriorate somewhat - but by how much? Having the Expert model with Mastermind TCU, using the Blevo app is not possible unfortunately (as far as I know). The Mission Control app reads the battery health as "100%" but I don't believe that is telling me anything specific about remaining battery capacity. Any thoughts? I should add that I have not noticed any change in apparent battery range, but then again I rarely use more than 50% and I ride more and more with the motor off, so it's very hard to compare now to when I first started with the bike.

You know it runs better with full voltage you ( like everyone else ) can feel it .
Right ?
Am I right ?

 

[gpburdell]

GO ! Charge it full, get everything you paid for and ride ! GO !

Not really the best advice for all circumstances IMHO. Lithium ion batteries see an improved service life if they are stored at between 20-80% charge.

If using sufficient battery to bring a full charge below 80% before storing then there's no reason not to charge fully. On the other hand, if one uses the Creo battery sparingly - such as to take the edge off hills but moving to zero assist on much of the ride - it can be helpful to not charge fully. e.g. my lunchtime 13.4 mile ride yesterday used only 21wh.

You know it runs better with full voltage you ( like everyone else ) can feel it .
Right ?
Am I right ?

Haven't seen that on our bikes. Which makes sense since Li-ion battery discharge voltage curve is pretty flat through most of the capacity.