Creo 1, 2 and Creo 2 road spec all back to back

[Dazmanturbo]

I got my Creo 2 carbon comp yesterday and wanted to ride the back to back so I had a really good comparison. I did a 2.5 mile loop which included a 10% hill so I could hear how the motor was.

First up was my Creo 1, which is heavily modified and light as the S-Works. This bike fits my extremely well and the loop was done with no fuss. Di2 worked flawlessly and motor pulled me up the hill but we audible. Time was 13.18 on this bike

Next up was Creo 2 as out the box with 47mm tyres. Rolled much better than I was expecting, but hard seat post has no give and made the ride hard as concrete. Tyres did damp damp some, but not to the same level as my Ergon seat post. Worth a mention is the Future Shock 3.0. This is the one without the adjustment and is a vast improvement over the 1.0 on the Roubaix. Was considering swapping that for the 2.0 on my Creo 1, but was so impressed, it will now stay. Coming from Shimano gears, the SRAM stuff is good, but not on the same level as Shimano. The brakes were ok and the gear change good. Lap time on this bike was an impressive 13.25, just 7 seconds shy of the Creo 1. Motor pulled well up the hill and very quiet.

Finally, I swapped out a few bit on the Creo 2. I took off the wheels and replaced with a set of Newmen R38 with 28mm tyres. This also had a set of SRAM Red rotors fitted and a Garbaruk 10 to 50 cassette. By swapping these wheels, it took 1.8kg off the bike, the difference is insane. I also swapped the seat post to my Ergon CF3. This now a different bike, extremely comfy rear and very rapid. Yes Specialized states min 38 mm tyre, but the bike feel fantastic with 28mm and did not explode or report itself to the Police !! The new motor is an absolute gem. No more mechanical gear noise, smoother clutch engagement and a very noticeable power increase on the hills. This bike did the lap in a time of 11.33 and I was easy able to pul gears one or two higher than the standard Creo 2. The higher grade discs also really improved the brake quality, so they were much more like Shimano.

I have few more changes to do on the bike. I have a Garbaruk 46T gold chainring on order to match the rear cassette, a Shimano HG+ chain to get the best changes from the Garbaruk cassette and some ceramic brake pads. I also need to decide on which of my handlebars I am going to use so I can get a really neat from end with just 2 cables on show. The dropper cable will be removed and I should be able to get the remote wires along side rear brake cable into the handle bar holes

 

[VoodooEx]

Thanks for sharing! I have 1 coming in a month as well. I am particularly interested in the 28mm tyres swap. Specialized says that the minimum width is 38mm if order not to drop the bottom bracket too low. May I know what is the length of the crankarm you are using and do you have any pedal strike when cornering?

 

[Twowheelxtc]

Helpful comparison… thanks. Just wondering if you’ve removed the dropper cable yet and if it’s pulls through easily without any dismantling. I’ve a Creo 2 that should be arriving soon and like you want to be rid of the dropper post. If it’s not a simple pull though I’ll get the shop mechanic to remove before I pick the bike up.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A question of interest: Does any of you guys complaining on the dropper seatpost ever rides singletracks? I'd love to have a dropper in sandy terrain or to ride down a dangerous descent on a singletrack...

Dazman, be honest: You needed a better road e-bike not a gravel one, didn't you?

 

[Twowheelxtc]

Your suspicions are right…I never ride single track! My Creo 2 use will be for touring so I’m hoping that the more relaxed geometry and longer wheelbase (very similar to traditional touring bikes) will make for a more stable comfortable ride. The mounting points on the forks will enable me to fit bags. Of course touring inevitably has tracks and trails on the routes. My passion has always been long distance European Touring but advancing years mean some assistance is helpful.
And like you I’m a Specialized fan. My road bike is a 8yr old Rubaix and I still love riding that too!

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Thanks for sharing! I have 1 coming in a month as well. I am particularly interested in the 28mm tyres swap. Specialized says that the minimum width is 38mm if order not to drop the bottom bracket too low. May I know what is the length of the crankarm you are using and do you have any pedal strike when cornering?

My bike is 58cm fitted with 175mm cranks. Rode it like my normal bike and this is not an issue. The main reason for the min tyre suggestion is to do the wheel circumference and getting wrong speed ready from TCU. My Garmin handles this for me, so it is not an issue

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Helpful comparison… thanks. Just wondering if you’ve removed the dropper cable yet and if it’s pulls through easily without any dismantling. I’ve a Creo 2 that should be arriving soon and like you want to be rid of the dropper post. If it’s not a simple pull though I’ll get the shop mechanic to remove before I pick the bike up.

Mine came all boxed up with seat post not fitted. I pop the post in to do the out the box ride, but did hot connect the cable. This would be a simple unhook. The Post end of the cable has a nipple which is clamped by a small allen key. Once you know that is there, removed is dead easy

 

[Dazmanturbo]

A question of interest: Does any of you guys complaining on the dropper seatpost ever rides singletracks? I'd love to have a dropper in sandy terrain or to ride down a dangerous descent on a singletrack...

Dazman, be honest: You needed a better road e-bike not a gravel one, didn't you?

Lol - Stefan you are completely correct, road is my main. UK is so built up, we have no gravel....unless you count the crappy roads. I have have no use for the dropper and is did make bike pretty damn uncomfy and the Trans X on on the Comp has zero flex

 

[Twowheelxtc]

Dazman what do you think about the Ergon seatpost? I was considering the Specialized Terra but now you have me wondering.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Dazman what do you think about the Ergon seatpost? I was considering the Specialized Terra but now you have me wondering.

The Ergon Cf3 / Canyon VCLS 15 (same post) is the best. I have the post on my Creo 1, 2 and Roubaix. The split leaf carbon spring gives a similar compliance to the future shock and make the post much comfy. The dropper has zero flex, the Terra will be better but it does not movement of the Ergon. The Creo 1 came with a similar post to the Terra and was an S-Works one and I swapped to the Ergon, again to big comfort improvement. My favourite post for sure.

 

[Twowheelxtc]

Thanks for that info….much appreciated. Ergon it is! . This bike is costing me a fortune

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Thanks for that info….much appreciated. Ergon it is! . This bike is costing me a fortune

That is way I went for the Comp as I knew I was changing much of groupset. To be fair, I did already have some of the parts. I now have all I need the update and just waiting for the last few bits to arrive. I have Garbaruk 46T gold chainring, Garbaruk gold derailleur pulleys and a Sram bleed kit so I can swap over to my Coefficent RR bars. I am loving the bike so far and this will make it complete......for the meanwhile - lol Bikeinn (Tradeinn) had the Ergon post for £169, cheapest I have seen and they do international postage

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Lol - Stefan you are completely correct, road is my main. UK is so built up, we have no gravel....unless you count the crappy roads.

Interesting! I could not fail noticing the road bike was the most popular bicycle type I could spot in the UK! Poland is very much diversified in this respect.

There is one thing that makes me think related to your Creo 2 and narrow road tyres. The e-bike system has the motor cut-off speed hardcoded for a single wheel/tyre size (it is a very much complicated matter that an experienced Bosch user had explained to me very well). It means that your Creo 2 on 28 mm tyres should cut the motor off well before 15.5 mph?

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Interesting! I could not fail noticing the road bike was the most popular bicycle type I could spot in the UK! Poland is very much diversified in this respect.

There is one thing that makes me think related to your Creo 2 and narrow road tyres. The e-bike system has the motor cut-off speed hardcoded for a single wheel/tyre size (it is a very much complicated matter that an experienced Bosch user had explained to me very well). It means that your Creo 2 on 28 mm tyres should cut the motor off well before 15.5 mph?

I did consider the cut off point of the motor, but the difference will be tiny. I was looking at the Kids Levo to get hold of the 1.2 motor and they is coded to 24" wheels and that would have more of marked difference. One of the hacks they tried to use for by passing the speed restriction is increasing the wheel size, but they go way bigger.

The issue I have at the moment, the motor is so smooth, I can't tell when it cuts

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One of the hacks they tried to use for by passing the speed restriction is increasing the wheel size, but they go way bigger.

The Bosch user, I think it was @wildtrak told me the reality, and it does not matter if the motor is Bosch, Brose or Mahle.

The first tier is the hardcoded wheel size, and no dealer can change it. If Specialized had coded the Kids Levo to 24" wheel, 24" it is.
The second level is the display speed and distance. The dealer (or a hack) can change it but it would not affect the actual motor cut off speed.

Now, as the Kids Levo is programmed for small wheels, I think installing its motor and TCU in an adult e-bike would mean a far higher cut off speed than 15.5 mph (am I wrong?)

The only practical way to combat the speed restriction is installing a dongle but the more I'm riding the more negative I become to the idea.

P.S. An afterthought: Specialized may have the wheel size hardcoded but the speed limit is just geofenced. That's why the same Creo can be sold in the U.S., Canada or Europe/Australia with a different speed limit.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

The Bosch user, I think it was @wildtrak told me the reality, and it does not matter if the motor is Bosch, Brose or Mahle.

The first tier is the hardcoded wheel size, and no dealer can change it. If Specialized had coded the Kids Levo to 24" wheel, 24" it is.
The second level is the display speed and distance. The dealer (or a hack) can change it but it would not affect the actual motor cut off speed.

Now, as the Kids Levo is programmed for small wheels, I think installing its motor and TCU in an adult e-bike would mean a far higher cut off speed than 15.5 mph (am I wrong?)

The only practical way to combat the speed restriction is installing a dongle but the more I'm riding the more negative I become to the idea.

P.S. An afterthought: Specialized may have the wheel size hardcoded but the speed limit is just geofenced. That's why the same Creo can be sold in the U.S., Canada or Europe/Australia with a different speed limit.

After testing mine tonight, the motor assist cuts out at 16.5 mph. My Previous Creo 1 was at 16.3mph, so similar numbers.

With the Levo Kids, I though the same as you, that the cut off would be higher, given it thinks it on 24" wheels. From my understanding, the dealer can alter the wheel size to match the bike via the software link they have. As for the Speed limits, I have always wondered how this was applied. I would be surprised if it was geo location as not everyone rides with Mission Control, I know I don't. I am sure it is coded into the TCU to say what the cut of is. If that was the case, get an American TCU from the higher speed states and unlock speed??

 

[mschwett]

I got my Creo 2 carbon comp yesterday and wanted to ride the back to back so I had a really good comparison. I did a 2.5 mile loop which included a 10% hill so I could hear how the motor was.

First up was my Creo 1, which is heavily modified and light as the S-Works. This bike fits my extremely well and the loop was done with no fuss. Di2 worked flawlessly and motor pulled me up the hill but we audible. Time was 13.18 on this bike

Next up was Creo 2 as out the box with 47mm tyres. Rolled much better than I was expecting, but hard seat post has no give and made the ride hard as concrete. Tyres did damp damp some, but not to the same level as my Ergon seat post. Worth a mention is the Future Shock 3.0. This is the one without the adjustment and is a vast improvement over the 1.0 on the Roubaix. Was considering swapping that for the 2.0 on my Creo 1, but was so impressed, it will now stay. Coming from Shimano gears, the SRAM stuff is good, but not on the same level as Shimano. The brakes were ok and the gear change good. Lap time on this bike was an impressive 13.25, just 7 seconds shy of the Creo 1. Motor pulled well up the hill and very quiet.

Finally, I swapped out a few bit on the Creo 2. I took off the wheels and replaced with a set of Newmen R38 with 28mm tyres. This also had a set of SRAM Red rotors fitted and a Garbaruk 10 to 50 cassette. By swapping these wheels, it took 1.8kg off the bike, the difference is insane. I also swapped the seat post to my Ergon CF3. This now a different bike, extremely comfy rear and very rapid. Yes Specialized states min 38 mm tyre, but the bike feel fantastic with 28mm and did not explode or report itself to the Police !! The new motor is an absolute gem. No more mechanical gear noise, smoother clutch engagement and a very noticeable power increase on the hills. This bike did the lap in a time of 11.33 and I was easy able to pul gears one or two higher than the standard Creo 2. The higher grade discs also really improved the brake quality, so they were much more like Shimano.

I have few more changes to do on the bike. I have a Garbaruk 46T gold chainring on order to match the rear cassette, a Shimano HG+ chain to get the best changes from the Garbaruk cassette and some ceramic brake pads. I also need to decide on which of my handlebars I am going to use so I can get a really neat from end with just 2 cables on show. The dropper cable will be removed and I should be able to get the remote wires along side rear brake cable into the handle bar holes

this is a cool experiment... but without keeping very careful tabs on how hard you're pedaling, how much power the motor contributed, and the wind or other local conditions, the time differences aren't too meaningful. there is really no way (like not even close!) that changing the wheels, tires, cassette, rotors, make a bike ridden with the same power levels 14% faster. i could believe that for a fat bike to a road bike, but the same bike with different wheels and tires, no. it would be really interesting to see the tcx/gpx/etc file for these rides and understand how much power you and the motor contributed! the higher speeds will usually lead to a lot higher power usage, some of which would be offset in this case by the more aero, better rolling wheels and tires.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

With the Levo Kids, I though the same as you, that the cut off would be higher, given it thinks it on 24" wheels. From my understanding, the dealer can alter the wheel size to match the bike via the software link they have.

I think the dealer can change the wheel size in the software, which would only change the display speed and distance.

As for the Speed limits, I have always wondered how this was applied. I would be surprised if it was geo location as not everyone rides with Mission Control, I know I don't. I am sure it is coded into the TCU to say what the cut of is. If that was the case, get an American TCU from the higher speed states and unlock speed??

I was imprecise and used the incorrect word "geofencing". A batch of e-bikes is sent to the U.S. where the regional distributor makes them programmed for Class 3. (For Bosch, a batch of motors is hardcoded at the factory for a given region).

I could be wrong in both cases, though. Specialized is not Bosch.

 

[Twowheelxtc]

That is way I went for the Comp as I knew I was changing much of groupset. To be fair, I did already have some of the parts. I now have all I need the update and just waiting for the last few bits to arrive. I have Garbaruk 46T gold chainring, Garbaruk gold derailleur pulleys and a Sram bleed kit so I can swap over to my Coefficent RR bars. I am loving the bike so far and this will make it complete......for the meanwhile - lol Bikeinn (Tradeinn) had the Ergon post for £169, cheapest I have seen and they do international postage

Dazman…thanks for the info on Bikeinn price for the Ergon Allroad seatpost. £169 delivered AT and customs included. An amazing price, at least £50 cheaper than buying in UK! Still a crazy price just for a seatpost….many people would flinch at the idea of paying that for a whole bike!!

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Dazman…thanks for the info on Bikeinn price for the Ergon Allroad seatpost. £169 delivered AT and customs included. An amazing price, at least £50 cheaper than buying in UK! Still a crazy price just for a seatpost….many people would flinch at the idea of paying that for a whole bike!!

Ahh did not see you were the UK like me. Bikeinn transports the goods from Spain to UK wearhouse and therefore bypasses the customs. Delivery is a bit longer, but the savings are worth it