Couple geared front hub questions

I was very disappointed to see them discontinue my Grinfineon controllers, but agree the basrunners installed in a Shan Shan or Reention case are quite amazing.
You, and a lot of other folks Tom.

The BaseRunner setup has pleasantly surprised me in a couple of ways, first in performance, and the second in simplicity in packaging and wiring. I have what Grin calls their 21700 battery case (ShanShan/Hialong) with the integrated BaseRunner controller on two bikes (and I swap the 750w battery between the two bases). With the WP version of the Cycle Analyst there was very little "extra" wring and so worked out really well for minimal configurations such as the subject of this thread. It was almost as clean as one of your mid drives. 😉
 
You, and a lot of other folks Tom.

The BaseRunner setup has pleasantly surprised me in a couple of ways, first in performance, and the second in simplicity in packaging and wiring. I have what Grin calls their 21700 battery case (ShanShan/Hialong) with the integrated BaseRunner controller on two bikes (and I swap the 750w battery between the two bases). With the WP version of the Cycle Analyst there was very little "extra" wring and so worked out really well for minimal configurations such as the subject of this thread. It was almost as clean as one of your mid drives.
I've pretty much given up on mid drives and the newest build is a 9C RTR FDD and associated kit from Grin. I had a Grinfineon in my kit from two years ago that I never used. And I have an early version of the Baserunner. My "gofer" bikes MXUS 1000w FDD will be replaced with a MAC 12FET Infineon but dumbed down to 36V. A scratch build has been in process for far too long also another MAC this time RGD with the same overkill controller. I'm fully onboard with the who needs mid-drive builders these days. I got a kick out of one of Justin's recent videos where he sarcastically proclaims the CA3 to be old school. I've said it a dozen times, I like full-color LED in a TV but prefer information and utility to featureless color displays. Well they think they have features... 😉

I do have 2 2014 BBS01 350W on bikes used on shared bike/walking paths. They're set with a 15MPH limit.
And a 2021 BBS01A 500W that I should really flip.

My Grinspector is another very useful kit!
 
First post here as I'm looking into ebikes now. My wife and I each have this same Biria step-through, and it's great to see that it has potential for conversion, as it's a solid bike that we want to continue riding. Would you still endorse going this route? Any recommendation on what would be a workable front hub in today's market? What is the power output on the unit that you used? I'm plenty handy, including building up bikes and threading wheels in the past. Thanks.
I'm out camping and riding on the Olympic peninsula but I'll answer in a week or so. Bottom line is that it works great and my wife loves it

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First post here as I'm looking into ebikes now. My wife and I each have this same Biria step-through, and it's great to see that it has potential for conversion, as it's a solid bike that we want to continue riding. Would you still endorse going this route? Any recommendation on what would be a workable front hub in today's market? What is the power output on the unit that you used? I'm plenty handy, including building up bikes and threading wheels in the past. Thanks.
Back from my little vacation hiking and biking some in the Olympic Peninsula lots of fun but happy to be home.
To answer your questions I'd do the same conversion on a Biria easy boarding bike again in an instant, it is a solid and fun bike to ride. I put the geared front hub motor on my wife's Biria and a geared rear hub motor that on a lark I installed on an old mountain bike. Both kits were very inexpensive on Amazon. I bought the MXUS front motor already laced into a wheel several years ago when I was going to try to commute to work on a route with long steep hills (my employer was going to move my office from 26 miles away to one only 12 miles from home but then changed their mind when I told them my requirements for office space). Anyway the kit never really got used because, even though it did great on flat rides where I didn't need assist, it was completely gutless where I needed help on hills - so it sat in a shed unused and unloved. Motor is rated at 36v and I think 250w and came with a KT controller with 15a max rating. When I bought the rear hub kit, which I really didn't need at all, I used the KT 22a max controller that came with that kit on the MXUS and it changed everything. Excellent power, good power delivery (as opposed to what I read about some ready made cadence sensor bikes) and it handles the larger controller with no problems. I tested it in the Columbia Gorge on some hilly routes and it gave excellent assist and the motor never got more than minimally warm even pulling long steep grades. My wife also rides it on hilly routes and it is funny to watch as she pulls along side and passes much younger and more fit riders struggling with their serious looking road bikes on the hills while she cheerfully greets them. Maybe there is something wrong with the original controller but the 22a controller works great with this motor while the original controller did not.

The Amazon sourced no name geared rear hub motor that I put in my old Schwinn Sierra mountain bike also works great (although I almost never ride it) including on very hilly routes without overheating. But neither my wife nor I use a motor alone with throttle as I see many others do, only as an assist.

Long post but hope it helps, in summary:
- I only have hub motor experience with this front 250w rated MXUS and the no name 500w rated rear "ricetoo" motors, both were very inexpensive, both work great with the same 22a max KT controller. Both came laced into decent looking double wall rims with sturdy spokes. So I can't give a useful recommendation regarding which brand to buy or avoid. If I were to do it again I wouldn't hesitate to buy whatever brand on Amazon that came already laced into a wheel with a double wall rim as long as it came with a KT 22a controller and WP (waterproof) connectors.
- you could use either a front or rear hub motor on the Biria but I like the weight distribution with the front hub motor, some care needs to be taken on loose surfaces or grass because it is possible to get wheel spin on takeoff, especially on uphill grades.
- I would use a torque arm for a Biria front fork, even though it is steel I did notice some slight spreading of the dropouts when I ran it without a torque arm. And I'd definitely use a torque arm for the aluminum frame if a rear hub motor was chosen instead of a front motor.

Good luck with whatever you do choose with your Biria bikes, great fun (as a more serious cyclist friend from Ireland said when he rode my wife's bike in the Gorge "brilliant").
 
Oh, and I use inexpensive Amazon sourced lithium batteries on my DIY ebikes (couple Btrpower and couple no name) which have performed excellent and haven't exploded or burned my house down, yet.
 
Oh, and I use inexpensive Amazon sourced lithium batteries on my DIY ebikes (couple Btrpower and couple no name) which have performed excellent and haven't exploded or burned my house down, yet.
How many charges? How old are they. Don’t mistake my questions for criticism. We sold a few generic batteries like yours and all madd it past the one year warranty. But beyond that I have no data. I’m not being disingenuous
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I just looked it up
oldest is 36v 15ah QZF "brand" bought Oct 19
48v 15ah no name (supposed to have Samsung cells) bought Dec 2020
48v 10ah Btrpower LiFePO4 Apr '21
48v and 36v 10ah (each) Btrpower May '21

I can't say how many times each has been charged but except for the LiFePO4 it has been many times each with at least a few thousand miles of use between them.
The LiFePO4 is very heavy at 10# so I hardly ever use it but I did use it this past week for some of my rides as I brought all three 48v batteries with me. In mountainous terrain I only used two of the batteries (the LiFePo4 and the 48v 15ah battery), didn't touch the 48v 10ah battery (need to ride with it some tomorrow to drain charge). Used very little capacity of the two batteries that were used. Both 50v or higher residual. Rides totaled ~100 miles (I hiked some too, so it wasn't all bike riding on my mini vacation) including one stretch of ~13 miles with over 3400 feet of climbing where I used the assist the entire way. TSDZ2 48v 750w ridden mostly in level 3 of 5 power settings, few hundred yards of level 4 and level 5 was never touched.

In Sept I'm going to ride around Crater lake (done it a few times with non assist bikes but looking forward to enjoying it more with a Tongsheng assist bike) and maybe repeat a 175 mile route with ~8500 feet of climbing in eastern Oregon that I did in 2020. I'm going to leave the LiFePO4 at home for that. I'd fully trust my wife's Biria or my old mountain bike with the geared hub motors to do those rides also but I prefer my Schwinn hybrid with the tsdz2 (even over my BH gravel bike with yamaha PW-SE).
 
IMO a best buy if weight isn’t an issue. I live in a small city, my grocery runner would be fine with a lower Ah battery. I gave up building and repairing Li ion but won’t hesitate to build with lifepo4. 6-8Ah would be fine for 8 mile round trip runs and more than double service life.

Share your thought on yours?
 
unpacking my truck I checked the resting voltage of the 10ah LiFeSO4 and it was over 53 volts with 50 miles riding rails to trails and gravel roads. Not the biggest hills. The 15ah battery that did most of the heavy lifting was at 49.5v
The LiFeSO4 is in the blue front rack bag in the photo I posted above a few days ago. when used, the other batteries are carried in frame bag under the top tube. Besides working very well my only other impression is that it is pounds heavier than my other batteries.
Supposed to have more stable chemistry so that is a plus if true.
 
Ping batteries are highly respected but significantly more expensive. (Looks like he’s gone off line) :oops: I’m going to build an LiFePo4 with A123 style cells.


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Is that a LiFeSO4?
The cells in mine look like flat packets, sort of like giant foil tea bags.
Yes, I opened it up to look.

Edit
scratch that question, I see that they are
Easier to configure then pouches for me. I have the right tools and supplies. You inspired me. Thanks for the share!
 
Back from my little vacation hiking and biking some in the Olympic Peninsula lots of fun but happy to be home.
To answer your questions I'd do the same conversion on a Biria easy boarding bike again in an instant, it is a solid and fun bike to ride. I put the geared front hub motor on my wife's Biria and a geared rear hub motor that on a lark I installed on an old mountain bike. Both kits were very inexpensive on Amazon. I bought the MXUS front motor already laced into a wheel several years ago when I was going to try to commute to work on a route with long steep hills (my employer was going to move my office from 26 miles away to one only 12 miles from home but then changed their mind when I told them my requirements for office space). Anyway the kit never really got used because, even though it did great on flat rides where I didn't need assist, it was completely gutless where I needed help on hills - so it sat in a shed unused and unloved. Motor is rated at 36v and I think 250w and came with a KT controller with 15a max rating. When I bought the rear hub kit, which I really didn't need at all, I used the KT 22a max controller that came with that kit on the MXUS and it changed everything. Excellent power, good power delivery (as opposed to what I read about some ready made cadence sensor bikes) and it handles the larger controller with no problems. I tested it in the Columbia Gorge on some hilly routes and it gave excellent assist and the motor never got more than minimally warm even pulling long steep grades. My wife also rides it on hilly routes and it is funny to watch as she pulls along side and passes much younger and more fit riders struggling with their serious looking road bikes on the hills while she cheerfully greets them. Maybe there is something wrong with the original controller but the 22a controller works great with this motor while the original controller did not.

The Amazon sourced no name geared rear hub motor that I put in my old Schwinn Sierra mountain bike also works great (although I almost never ride it) including on very hilly routes without overheating. But neither my wife nor I use a motor alone with throttle as I see many others do, only as an assist.

Long post but hope it helps, in summary:
- I only have hub motor experience with this front 250w rated MXUS and the no name 500w rated rear "ricetoo" motors, both were very inexpensive, both work great with the same 22a max KT controller. Both came laced into decent looking double wall rims with sturdy spokes. So I can't give a useful recommendation regarding which brand to buy or avoid. If I were to do it again I wouldn't hesitate to buy whatever brand on Amazon that came already laced into a wheel with a double wall rim as long as it came with a KT 22a controller and WP (waterproof) connectors.
- you could use either a front or rear hub motor on the Biria but I like the weight distribution with the front hub motor, some care needs to be taken on loose surfaces or grass because it is possible to get wheel spin on takeoff, especially on uphill grades.
- I would use a torque arm for a Biria front fork, even though it is steel I did notice some slight spreading of the dropouts when I ran it without a torque arm. And I'd definitely use a torque arm for the aluminum frame if a rear hub motor was chosen instead of a front motor.

Good luck with whatever you do choose with your Biria bikes, great fun (as a more serious cyclist friend from Ireland said when he rode my wife's bike in the Gorge "brilliant").
Thanks very much for the feedback/review. I'll be keeping my eyes open for an available motor set.
 
Thanks very much for the feedback/review. I'll be keeping my eyes open for an available motor set.
California ebike has a really sweet MXUS kit. Listed. As 900w, I think. But it can run on 36v, 48v, and 52v batteries using KT Kunteng controller and display. Impressive kit. Several old timers here with lots of experience love KT components. High quality at decent prices.

 
Thanks very much for the feedback/review. I'll be keeping my eyes open for an available motor set.
My quick check of amazon and ebay didn't locate any cheap kits but if you are mechanically inclined and willing to take a risk there are other options.
In a moment of irrational weakness I bought one of these front hub motors on ebay several months ago, someday I'll probably use it on a winter boredom project. I think I made an offer that was accepted so it cost only ~$60 shipped


It is a new Bafang motor in a wheel I think from some out of business bike share venture.
But:
the rim isn't machined for rim brakes and it isn't disc brake compatible either as it has a roller brake interface
strangely, the way it is laced the rim doesn't sit centered in the forks - I think I could center it by changing spoke tension but not entirely certain of that

I was thinking of putting it in a cruiser bike that didn't come with a front brake anyway but decided to put a tongsheng mid drive on that bike instead.
If you are adventurous you could lace it into your existing front wheel with new spokes and buy a controller/display kit and minus battery be into it for ~$200 more or less.

EDIT:
I see that some cyclists use non-machined rims with rim brakes, I'd be concerned that rims not designed for rim brakes might be thinner at the pad contact area and be more susceptible to wear, but maybe not as it seems others do this apparently without an issue. I might have to give it a try.

this controller kit isn't exactly what I'd want but it at least come with everything
 
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I run, not walk away from many budget kits. A decent MXUS motor and good wheel build is all that much more. And will bd less of an adventure to install.
 
Ping batteries are highly respected but significantly more expensive. (Looks like he’s gone off line) :oops: I’m going to build an LiFePo4 with A123 style cells.


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I've used these exact cells in radio control, where they are considered top shelf stuff. Sometimes hard to locate A123....
 
I'm putting the $60 bafang front geared front hub motor on my Dahon Jack folder. Scavenging the controller and peripherals from my mountain bike. Need to get torque arms and lawyer lip spacers then see how it does. Might bring this bike for my upcoming crater lake ride along with the stock front wheel to switch out and have a lighter non assist bike to ride.
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I'd take a good close look at the front dropouts. If they look good (nice and thick and undamaged) I'd consider filing out the lawyer lips and getting a good solid pair of the tabbed washers like these instead - https://ebikes.ca/tabwasher.html. This way you'd have a nice solid and perpendicular surface for the outside washer/bolt to stay in contact with (providing a good solid clamping effect). I've always found that the washers that build up the lawyer lips never seem to end up with a perpendicular surface, plus they take up some valuable axle space.
 
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