Consumer Reports: Ebike Fires

[Dorkyman]

This is easy to fix.

The problem is with junk cells. Simply require UL certification for all ebike battery packs. Limits for over and under-voltage, shorts, and temperature extremes. And apartment complexes will include in their leases that only UL certified ebikes and other mobility devices will be allowed, either indoors or on the property.

Ever considered the enormous amount of energy there is in a 5-gallon container of gasoline? Yet fires are extremely rare because the risk has been engineered out and gasoline storage is not allowed in non-certified containers. Same thing needs to happen with ebikes.

 

[6zfshdb]

This is easy to fix.

The problem is with junk cells. Simply require UL certification for all ebike battery packs. Limits for over and under-voltage, shorts, and temperature extremes. And apartment complexes will include in their leases that only UL certified ebikes and other mobility devices will be allowed, either indoors or on the property.

Ever considered the enormous amount of energy there is in a 5-gallon container of gasoline? Yet fires are extremely rare because the risk has been engineered out and gasoline storage is not allowed in non-certified containers. Same thing needs to happen with ebikes.

Definitely a step in the right direction but regulation does not necessarily ensure compliance. This is especially true with foreign made products shipped directly to consumers in the US. It seems these imported products are the major source of these fires.

 

[tomjasz]

This is easy to fix.

How are consumers fixed? Seriously, no sarcasm intended. We see comments constantly defending the budget crap battery resellers. UN38 and UL certification is expensive and as long as Amazon, eBay, and their ilk continue to offer and ship cheap packs the incidents will just increase until there’s a serious accident. It seems there have to be a bunch of deaths before anyone has the stomach to push for a fix.

i think it’s obvious when looking at brand name cordless tool makers and high end proprietary motor system batteries that safety can be engineered into our eBike batteries. I was recently very disappointed to learn my newest batteries from what I thought was a good builder actually uses sub standard connections, nickel coated steel rather than nickel, counterfeit Anderson connector, and will argue the steel ribbon is OK.

Chineses companies remain insulated from any financial and/or moral responsibilities for dangerous goods. Shipping is another dirty little industry secret. We just look away a go for the cheapest solution.

 

[Gordon71]

"It seems there have to be a bunch of deaths before anyone has the stomach to push for a fix." Hmmmm, not so far in the firearm industry.

 

[Asher]

Definitely a step in the right direction but regulation does not necessarily ensure compliance. This is especially true with foreign made products shipped directly to consumers in the US. It seems these imported products are the major source of these fires.

False. These bikes are not being shipped directly to customers. They are going to distributors/retailers of some kind, who are overwhelmingly in NYC. Shipping one-off e-bikes from Alibaba is more than trouble it's worth for virtually all consumers. Buying a whole shipping containers worth is very different, and much more financially viable.

We largely solved this problem with hoverboards ten years ago. We can do it again - and the problem is far more concentrated this time. Go after the distributors and make restaurants/delivery apps check the batteries of their deliverers.

 

[6zfshdb]

False. These bikes are not being shipped directly to customers. They are going to distributors/retailers of some kind, who are overwhelmingly in NYC. Shipping one-off e-bikes from Alibaba is more than trouble it's worth for virtually all consumers. Buying a whole shipping containers worth is very different, and much more financially viable.

We largely solved this problem with hoverboards ten years ago. We can do it again - and the problem is far more concentrated this time. Go after the distributors and make restaurants/delivery apps check the batteries of their deliverers.

This is likely true for assembled bikes but I was mainly referencing batteries & chargers.

 

[Gordon71]

Not Ebike but.... $25,000 fine seems low considering the damage.

Lithium ion batteries ignite three garbage truck fires in California

Lithium-ion batteries, improperly disposed of by an electronics company in Campbell, California, caught fire in three garbage trucks.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Asher]

This is likely true for assembled bikes but I was mainly referencing batteries & chargers.

These are likely coming from the same channels of back alley/dodgy distributors. You start with an Alibaba bike from a neighborhood shop (not a standard bicycle shop), and you can then only find compatible batteries at similar shops selling off brand wares.

There's a chain of shops selling Alibaba e-bikes in New York City, called Fly E-Bikes. They also have a record of selling stolen used wares. The kind of shop you'd expect to sell batteries that explode...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424921645483966466

Not Ebike but.... $25,000 fine seems low considering the damage.

Lithium ion batteries ignite three garbage truck fires in California

Lithium-ion batteries, improperly disposed of by an electronics company in Campbell, California, caught fire in three garbage trucks.

www.yahoo.com

That is nuts. They should be charged with criminal negligence - this is their whole job so they can't claim ignorance (any electronics worker knows you don't just throw out li-ion), and they did it several times. If you want to commit lazy arson, do it as a business and you'll get a slap on the wrist.

 

[tomjasz]

Not Ebike but.... $25,000 fine seems low considering the damage.

Lithium ion batteries ignite three garbage truck fires in California

Lithium-ion batteries, improperly disposed of by an electronics company in Campbell, California, caught fire in three garbage trucks.

www.yahoo.com

My former shop's insurance had to pay out $50,000 for a Unit Pack Power fire. The customer we sold to, resold it on eBay. There's no mechanism to attach any responsibility to UPP so the mom-and-pop shop ate it.

 

[Kayakguy]

If you note my post, I didn't say a small device couldn't burn down a house, just less likely.

Everybody probably remembers how Boeing had to shut down production of their so-called "Dreamliner" a few years ago due to fires in their big lithium batteries. I see they are in production again, but I don't know how or whether they resolved the battery issue. Though with the cultural reset (from a safety/quality mindset to a profit at any cost focus) following their merger with McDonnel Douglas, I'm not sure they bother to track plane crash statistics anymore.

 

[tomjasz]

Interested in statistics of EBR members experiencing fire /explosion on their ebike's battery, I changed my charging habits because of threads like this. Sheesh guys I charging my ebike's battery now inside a metal filing cabinet bottom drawer.
I probably need to move it away from all my solar inverters and the bedroom window.
On the other side I have propane tank.
I think I'm going to dig a hole in the GF's rain garden and line it with concrete slabs.
Nah just kidding around. That rubbish can is a good candidate though if you bury it, this way if explosion occurs it will shoot up like pyrotechnics.

Charge before toking… just saying…

 

[tomjasz]

Go fucking you self.

Atta boy… have another hit.

 

[scottsdalecommuter]

I only charge when I can see the battery, seems to take about four hours so either right when whe I get home from work or at the office. This is one of my wife’s biggest hang ups about a Tesla is she doesn’t want it charging in the garage and starting our house on fire, not sure how real the risk is but I’ve never been worried my ice car will start on fire in the garage.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Looks like another report involving moped-style Ebike

E-bike battery explodes and torches Huntington Beach apartment; such disasters can be avoided, officials say

The e-bike had been left charging for days when it's lithium-ion battery blew up, waking a family of three who escaped their apartment through a window.

www.latimes.com

 

[Gordon71]

Looks like another report involving moped-style Ebike

E-bike battery explodes and torches Huntington Beach apartment; such disasters can be avoided, officials say

The e-bike had been left charging for days when it's lithium-ion battery blew up, waking a family of three who escaped their apartment through a window.

www.latimes.com

Left charging for days???? Kind of like reading a story that went like: Family home catches fire after the family starts to cook dinner but decides to go on vacation leaving it cooking on the stove.

 

[Asher]

Looks like another report involving moped-style Ebike

E-bike battery explodes and torches Huntington Beach apartment; such disasters can be avoided, officials say

The e-bike had been left charging for days when it's lithium-ion battery blew up, waking a family of three who escaped their apartment through a window.

www.latimes.com

Can someone ID that make and model? Looks like a scrambler type but not sure who the maker is.

Everyone should be charging their devices on a timer that cuts power after X hours, eg 4-8 hours.

Left charging for days???? Kind of like reading a story that went like: Family home catches fire after the family starts to cook dinner but decides to go on vacation leaving it cooking on the stove.

You and I know that but most people don't. You need these devices to be idiotproofed or you get innocent victims having their house burned down (family members, neighbors).

 

[Gordon71]

Can someone ID that make and model? Looks like a scrambler type but not sure who the maker is.

Everyone should be charging their devices on a timer that cuts power after X hours, eg 4-8 hours.



You and I know that but most people don't. You need these devices to be idiotproofed or you get innocent victims having their house burned down (family members, neighbors).

You can't idiot proof anything. You can try but there will always be a bigger idiot to thwart the effort.

 

[tomjasz]

You and I know that but most people don't.

I'm with @Gordon71 No stove, auto, and many other potentially dangerous products are idiot-proof. All that needs to happen is to insist on a testing standard. EVERY OEM manual and now every battery maker has a manual that insists batteries not be charged unattended.

 

[Asher]

You can't idiot proof anything. You can try but there will always be a bigger idiot to thwart the effort.

Toyota is a $200 billion dollar proof otherwise. Or antilock brakes or any number of other inventions.

Poka-yoke - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It would be more honest to simply say you want to see people punished with death, injury or great misfortune for making dumb mistakes.

 

[Gordon71]

Toyota is a $200 billion dollar proof otherwise. Or antilock brakes or any number of other inventions.

Poka-yoke - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It would be more honest to simply say you want to see people punished with death, injury or great misfortune for making dumb mistakes.

I never said that at all. Antilock brakes aren't going to help someone who makes the decision to drive in a blizzard or the guy who decided to have loaded gun in his car and was killed when his dog stepped on the trigger.