Completely new and seeking input/direction

[poken1151]

Hi All,

I've been going back and forth on getting an ebike upgrade kit for my current bike (mountain bike for the city) and took my first ride today on someone else's bike and decided it's for me.

I'm around 325lbs, 6'4'' , and live in the Seattle WA area, downtown (that is, lots of hills) and thought getting an eassist addition would help me out here.

So far, what I've discovered through some reading online is:
- Though front wheel motors are ok, for my weight and the hills here, rear wheel is what I'll need.
- For the weight to be carried, between the bike and myself, I should aim for 500W (or 750W?).
- This can get expensive.

What I'm trying to understand is the power/voltage that'd be best, torque and also, a big question, if there's anyway I can get an e-assist system for the rear that still enables me to use the gears on my bike (it's a standard 21 speed).

If that is possible, what kind of kits would anyone point me to? What kind of money would I be looking at, if it's high is it better to buy an ebike built from scratch as opposed to doing an upgrade? Ah... an yea, my budget's not super high, for a kit, hoping to stay under 1k. Is that realistic for all I've mentioned, is it realistic (or does one exist) if I add in the wishlist of regenerative breaking (taking advantage of the hills here).

I wouldn't be doing any thing consistant like riding to work, but more for leisure and assisted working out.

Any and all input and guidance would be welcome, and appreciate some of the info I've already garnered looking through the forums.

 

[JoePah]

I think its great that you want to upgrade your bike and your range with an ebike kit.


If I were you i'd contact ElectricRider in texas.. You can actually speak to them on the phone! They will probably recommend a Direct drive hi torque motor and a battery that deliver high amperage..OR maybe a mid drive kit. They have been in business for over 10 years.

Even if you dont' buy from them they will give you an honest assessment of what your options are.
Plan on spending close to $1800 for the kit alone.

Whatever you do you should keep your bike since you seem to like it.

this is the kit I'd recommend but you should talk to an expert. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Have fun!

 

[poken1151]

Thanks JoePah, I've sent them an email referencing your advice. The price on that kit seems doable, but am I missing additional components there?

Any other recommendations are also very welcome!

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Rad Power bikes is in Seattle and has a store/showroom in Ballard. They don't sell kits but their bikes retail from $1500-$1600.

I'd suggest paying them a visit, talking to them about what your needs are, and perhaps try out their bikes.

 

[Chris Hammond]

For learning about ebike conversions grin technology is probably the best site I have visited. http://www.ebikes.ca/
They also sell complete kits that are completely customizable to your needs. They also have a motor simulator that can give you some realistic expectations about both performance and range of a given motor/ battery/ bike combo.
My 2 cents, considering your weight and the hilly terrain, you are going to want either a mid-drive or a geared hub with a low speed motor wind for improved low speed torque. Also due to your weight, I'd recommend at least a 48V battery, preferably 52V. You will likely be disappointed with the performance and range of a 36V system.
If you decide to go with a mid-drive, Luna cycles, https://lunacycle.com/, is a good resource and place to order kits. The new BBSHD mid-drive motor was designed to make conversion simple for most bikes. (Just need to know your bottom bracket width and type). The biggest downside to a mid-drive is the increased wear and tear on the drivetrain components. The big upside is better hill climbing capability as the motor can use the bikes rear cassette gearing to improve low speed performance. (You will loose for front 3 speed chainring set). A rear hub motor will enable you to keep your entire 21spd drivetrain. Also if you do a rear hub, get 2 "torque arms" considering your weight to ensure long term reliability.

Lastly EM3EV, https://em3ev.com/ , is probably the best place to get an inexpensive reliable battery. You can order an entire hub motor kit there, but you need to know exactly what you want, as their site provides far less info than Grin.

 

[J.R.]

@poken1151

E-BikeKit is a company in Philadelphia, PA. I have a friend with one of their kits. Powerful geared hubs, rated at 500 watts, but he installed a watt meter and peaks at more than 1000 watts. They build their wheels in the US. Pedal assist with throttle over-ride. Several battery packs to choose from.

Court has a few reviews, none of their most current kits though. Should give a sense of the quality. They've been around for awhile.

https://electricbikereview.com/?s=Ebikekit

https://www.ebikekit.com/collections/bicycle-kits

1.866.882.3245

 

[poken1151]

Thanks for all the information everyone! I'm going to take this all and start my research. Still no response from the folks in Texas, but will be looking around. Found out the lil ebike that carried me up Seattles slight inclines was only a 250W rear hub! I'm really curious what a 500~1000w motor can do and that one from ElectricRider is looking tantalizing now what I know what can carry me....

 

[Dewey]

I'm around 325lbs, 6'4'' , and live in the Seattle WA area...anyway I can get an e-assist system for the rear that still enables me to use the gears on my bike (it's a standard 21 speed).

There's a nice introduction to various systems on the Reddit ebikes wiki. You can spend as little as $700 to get a basic 1,000W direct drive rear hub motor, 48v battery, and freewheel or cassette so you can keep using your gears, but you'll be getting it from China and might not get great after sales service. I had a good experience buying a Bafang BBS mid-drive motor from California ebike as Doug Snyder keeps a good stock of spare parts and I've been able to repair my motor and keep on the road, but as others have pointed out you would lose your front chain rings. Given Washington state's 1,000W/20mph legal limits to qualify as an "electric-assisted bicycle" I would recommend the E-BikeKit heavy duty rear hub motor, they build great wheels using thick spokes for heavy duty applications, and offer after sales support (though you should look for a good local bike shop to service your bicycle brakes, tighten spokes, true wheels, etc.), and they use 22A controllers so the peak power of their 48V system would be 48x22=1,056W which is more or less the legal limit for your state.

 

[MisterM]

Thanks JoePah, I've sent them an email referencing your advice. The price on that kit seems doable, but am I missing additional components there?

Any other recommendations are also very welcome!

From what I've seen from kits, you won't save much (any?) money over buying a purpose-built ebike. A purpose-built ebike should have frame/components designed to handle higher speed/weight of an ebike. Plus kits have zip-ties everywhere - cables are either too long/short and they look amateurish to my eyes - you don't have to settle for that. You're not a feather-weight rider and need a bigger motor/battery. I'm similar height/less weight- the 500w motors I tested seemed underpowered - quickly ruled out kits as didn't see value-for-money vs the hassle of building a kit. Do a search for ebikes near your price range and I suspect you'll come to similar conclusion as I did.

 

[poken1151]

Thanks Dewery for the notes on the local limits. I had no clue! Especially since I have a co-worker with a purpose built bike that goes up to 28! But I'll keep this in mind in my search.

And appreciate the notes MisterM, so you're definitely not wrong on the maintainance. I did initially decide to grab a purpose built bike after noticing (way back when, so maybe it's different with my new info) that kits seemed to be giving me similar prices as a brand new, sleek bike. However I did debate it and went back to the idea of using a kit to keep this bike I've had. I think the term's called "Escalation of commitment". But may reconsider given the new info I've been garnering, for now I'm still on the lookout for a nice kit.

 

[surfstar]

Crazy Lenny's has Haibike Hardnine on closeout for $999. Only 55cm, which is frame size XL left, which would fit you. (I think that includes shipping, but not sure) Top speed is only 20mph if that matters.
Or a Stromer V1 Elite is only $1400 right now. 20" frame might be a little small on you, though. Not sure what sizes they had in the V1 non-Elite (which should be even cheaper!)

Also, https://www.randombikeparts.com/collections/complete-bikes/haibike?sort_by=price-ascending has some great deals.
By needing an XL frame, you can actually find some really good deals on expensive bikes that haven't sold.
For $1600 those are some great city featured Haibikes. The mid-drive will help on hills for sure, lots of torque. (Haibikes lack a throttle, if that is a deal-breaker, though. I found it actually was for me)

As I've been searching for a bike, I have a pretty good recent idea of all the 2017 price closeouts. They may be over your budget, but will hold their value by much more than a DIY conversion, when it comes time to sell/upgrade...

 

[JoePah]

Poken did electricrider get back to you? If not I will not suggest them again

 

[JoePah]

Crazy Lenny's has Haibike Hardnine on closeout for $999. Only 55cm, which is frame size XL left, which would fit you. (I think that includes shipping, but not sure) Top speed is only 20mph if that matters.
Or a Stromer V1 Elite is only $1400 right now. 20" frame might be a little small on you, though. Not sure what sizes they had in the V1 non-Elite (which should be even cheaper!)

Also, https://www.randombikeparts.com/collections/complete-bikes/haibike?sort_by=price-ascending has some great deals.
By needing an XL frame, you can actually find some really good deals on expensive bikes that haven't sold.
For $1600 those are some great city featured Haibikes. The mid-drive will help on hills for sure, lots of torque. (Haibikes lack a throttle, if that is a deal-breaker, though. I found it actually was for me)

Haven't been searching for a bike, I have a pretty good recent idea of all the 2017 price closeouts. They may be over your budget, but will hold their value by much more than a DIY conversion, when it comes time to sell/upgrade...

Great bikes but they won’t work for him.

 

[poken1151]

Poken did electricrider get back to you? If not I will not suggest them again

They haven't gotten back to me as yet, about to call them actually. Is there a reason you wouldn't suggest them?

And yea, overall buying a new bike is tempting, but looking at all options. For reference, this is what I currently have by way of my model:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-3700-...d-Brown-Aluminium-Mountain-Bike-/142402445195

It's nothing spectacular or expensive, just a fair bit of investment in it.

 

[JoePah]

They haven't gotten back to me as yet, about to call them actually. Is there a reason you wouldn't suggest them?

And yea, overall buying a new bike is tempting, but looking at all options. For reference, this is what I currently have by way of my model:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-3700-...d-Brown-Aluminium-Mountain-Bike-/142402445195

It's nothing spectacular or expensive, just a fair bit of investment in it.

If they are not responding I can’t recommend them

 

[Dewey]

Thanks Dewey for the notes on the local limits. I had no clue!...I'll keep this in mind in my search.

Stop Press those limits just changed! On Tuesday night Washington state passed the 3-tier ebike model legislation that permits <20mph and <750W Class 1 and 2 ebikes to ride on sidewalks and bike paths - if you want to legally be able to do this consider the BBS02 motor with a 48V battery and the controller current tuned down to 15A so peak power is 48x15=720W, you will still get good climbing performance, you can get this kit for $400 and a 48V shark, dolphin, or bottle battery pack for $400 from Luna Cycle, ask them to program the controller current setting to 15A and fit matching electrical connectors on the motor and battery cables. Even paying a local bike shop to help you remove your bottom bracket and fit a new chain and make the gearing work, you'll meet your budget.

 

[poken1151]

Also, as far as fully built bikes, a lot of them seem to be pretty up there once I consider the motor wattage. I will give RadPower a visit after work tomorrow as others have suggested as well, since their bikes are competitive to some kits I'm seeing (with battery) and get some more hands on ifo. Many options, and still excited to pick a setup and go!

Stop Press those limits just changed! On Tuesday night Washington state passed the 3-tier ebike model legislation that permits <20mph and <750W Class 1 and 2 ebikes to ride on sidewalks and bike paths - if you want to legally be able to do this consider the BBS02 motor with a 48V battery and the controller current tuned down to 15A so peak power is 48x15=720W, you will still get good climbing performance, you can get this kit for $400 and a 48V shark, dolphin, or bottle battery pack for $400 from Luna Cycle, ask them to program the controller current setting to 15A and fit matching electrical connectors on the motor and battery cables. Even paying a local bike shop to help you remove your bottom bracket and fit a new chain and make the gearing work, you'll meet your budget.

Wow! Good catch! Thanks for that, it must be from the new city ebikes as they are all 250W I think. So that's good to know. And after all the comments I did decide to wholly consider a mid motore. So, I'm headed to RadPowerBikes today to see if I can try one out, and after I've done that, will be making a decision and order this weekend.

You all have been awesome!

Also, @JoePah I checked and sent the email to the wrong address, so I literally just sent another email to the correct address.... with more questions.

Also, @Dewey , do you think I could do the tuning myself? I'm pretty comfortable doing my own mods etc. Would like to tune it depending on the day/context.

 

[Dewey]

after all the comments I did decide to wholly consider a mid motore. So, I'm headed to RadPowerBikes today to see if I can try one out, and after I've done that, will be making a decision and order this weekend.

@Dewey , do you think I could do the tuning myself? I'm pretty comfortable doing my own mods etc. Would like to tune it depending on the day/context.

Radpower only offer direct drive hub motors on their ebikes, but on their website they do say their Controllers are set to 750W so you might like to ask what is the controller current setting - it needs to be no more than 15A on a 48V system, greater than that would push peak power above 750W.

Yes you can program the BBS02 controller settings yourself. Turn off/disconnect the battery and download software to a laptop USB and connect the programming cable to the computer and the controller cable that is color coded green.

 

[poken1151]

Oh, thanks. I thought I saw a mid-drive option. I might check out Seattle E-Bikes instead as my office is closer. But their costs easily double over Radpower. I'm still buying a kit, but that would mean that they'd probably be less cool with me test driving a bike, especially if I'm not buying.

 

[Dewey]

they'd probably be less cool with me test driving a bike, especially if I'm not buying.

There's got to be hundreds of Bafang BBS kit converted ebikes in Seattle, some riders I'm sure would be happy to let you test ride their ebike, try posting a message in a local forum. Seattle e-bikes appear to be selling eRad kits which are simply a rebranded Bafang BBS, same for Luna branded mid-drive kits, etc. Biktrix and Hi-Power Cycles use BBS motors so you could try asking if they have any dealers local to you.