Completely new and seeking input/direction

[JoePah]

Hi All,

Just wanted to update. Over the weekend I put in an order for:
https://www.ebikekit.com/products/e-bikekit-heavy-duty-rear-lithium-48v

Rear with 20Ah battery and 7-speed. Found a discount code witch basically removed the tax/delivery fees. So came up about 1489. Should ship out in a few days I'm told.

I'll move on over to the next forum once I (inevitably) get stuck setting it up.

Thanks to all of you who replied and gave me your input. Truly appreciate the knowledge.

Good luck and have fun.. !

Please make sure you have someone tighten and true those wheels before you ride. I would get the most puncture resistant tire you can find for that rear wheel (I like Maxxis Excel) because changing a tube is a pain in the butt, esp on the road. Or perhaps a tire liner..

 

[JoePah]

Hello,
I'm not going to pretend I have any e-bike design knowledge, just a few gut feelings. I ride a Trek XM700 + and it's built
like a tank... For reference the bike is here...

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...tric-hybrid-bikes/xm700/xm700/p/1982140-2018/

There's a line in the XM700+ specification run down that reads.....

"This bike has a maximum total weight limit (combined weight of bicycle, rider, and cargo) of 300 pounds (136 kg). "

Most of the conversations on this thread have been about motor, power etc as it should be. I'm concerned about stopping.
I've never had a bike with disc brakes, it took me a little time to learn the correct way to 'use' disc brakes on a long steep decent as to
avoid heat fade and this is on a bike designed by some of the best bicycle engineers in the business.

As mentioned by others the frame stress on an ebike is significant. If Trek limits there maximum combined weight to 300 pounds
on the XM 700+ which is rock solid where does that leave us 'backyard builders ? And yes, to save the skeptics the bother of bringing
up that the 300 pounds came out of the Trek Legal department. I'm absolutely not suggesting for someone shouldn't go the kit route.
In this specific potential retrofit, with the weight limits expressed, braking and safety would be paramount on my mind...Just a thought.

John from CT

Yep Aluminum frame bikes have much lower weight limits, unless you buy a heavy duty model.. That's why I favor chrome moly bikes.. Steel is much more ductile, heaveir wall and can take abuse like no other material.

 

[tomjasz]

That's a good note John. I specifically got my bike as well for the expected weight limit (I'm pretty heavy) so It should be good to go with me and the added components. But breaking is a good point, part of this is that I wanted to implement regenerative breaking, if anyone has a good direction on that based on my final decision, I'd gladly take it.

Remember regenerative braking is only possible with a Direct Drive Hub Motor!

 

[poken1151]

Yup! That's what I ordered from e-bike kit: E-BikeKit™ Rear 500w Direct-Drive Hub Motor Conversion Kit

 

[jj25]

If you want a kit talk to us about what bike you want to convert, and what a realistic budget is.

I have a $1800 limit on motor and battery this includes shipping im thinking of going with a bbshd Luna kit and a 52v 24ah 14s9p battery from em3ev I'd love to hear feed back

 

[tomjasz]

I have a $1800 limit on motor and battery this includes shipping im thinking of going with a bbshd Luna kit and a 52v 24ah 14s9p battery from em3ev I'd love to hear feed back

Why not both from Paul, EM3ev. I bought my mids from him as well as the battery. Makes for a good relationship. He has a USA repair and service station that is fast and efficient should it ever be needed.

 

[jj25]

Why not both from Paul, EM3ev. I bought my mids from him as well as the battery. Makes for a good relationship. He has a USA repair and service station that is fast and efficient should it ever be needed.

also found them to be cheaper em3ev shrink wraps their battery I've heard negative comments about that but I love the fact

Why not both from Paul, EM3ev. I bought my mids from him as well as the battery. Makes for a good relationship. He has a USA repair and service station that is fast and efficient should it ever be needed.

I did more research on em3ev and they are reasonably priced on getting the kit from them I wanted to purchase the 50v 33ga but they are out of stock the next battery in my price range would be the 50v pf I'm not sure if I should wait until they have a the 33ga instock or if the pf has the same power and range

 

[tomjasz]

Negative comments about shrink wrap? IMO that makes no sense. Paul is very advanced in manufacturing. I’d not do the pf with a BBSHD. AGAIN. I had a pf with my BBSHD and it was not the right cell. At 20ah it was still a bi5 of a sagging battery. California ebikes and West Coast Electrics bothe have decent packs with LG and Sanyo packs. PF is a d3cent cell but better suited to 20A controller, IMO.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Yep Aluminum frame bikes have much lower weight limits, unless you buy a heavy duty model.. That's why I favor chrome moly bikes.. Steel is much more ductile, heaveir wall and can take abuse like no other material.

Hello 'JoePah, You bring up an excellent point regarding aluminum vs chrome moly. In the case of my Trek XM700+ the 300 lbs
max capacity for bike, rider and any added gear stated by Trek is perfect for me...46 lbs for the bike and 200 for me. I'll never carry any tour gear etc. so all should be ok. Trek has done wonders engineering the aluminum frame, it's rock solid.

Something that doesn't seem to get much 'press' here on the forum is braking and or brakes. I'm 100% confident with my bike as a whole, but
when I cruise down a long hill at 20 to 25 mph +, stopping the total weight of the bike and myself , 255lbs , the disc brakes have their work
cut out for them. There's not a lot 'left' should I have to lock them up and that's with 160 and 180mm rotors. I'm guessing braking system
enters into the 300 lb total rider, bike gear spec.

As mentioned prior, it took me a little trial and error to learn to modulate braking pressure on a long steep decline to avoid overheating
the rotors. I did notice a bit of fade early on, but have since gotten the feel of the discs.

I will say the 46 lb weight of the bike is 10 plus pounds less then most comparable e-bikes which I really appreciate.

John from CT

 

[John from Connecticut]

Negative comments about shrink wrap? IMO that makes no sense. Paul is very advanced in manufacturing. I’d not do the pf with a BBSHD. AGAIN. I had a pf with my BBSHD and it was not the right cell. At 20ah it was still a bi5 of a sagging battery. California ebikes and West Coast Electrics bothe have decent packs with LG and Sanyo packs. PF is a d3cent cell but better suited to 20A controller, IMO.

Perhaps the batteries have shrink wrap applied to provide a tad more cushion, 'protection', and also to snug them up nicely
in the plastic battery case ? The shrink wrap in addition to the tack welded conductor can provide additional support to
hold the batteries together as a unit ? Just a guess.

John from CT

 

[jj25]

Negative comments about shrink wrap? IMO that makes no sense. Paul is very advanced in manufacturing. I’d not do the pf with a BBSHD. AGAIN. I had a pf with my BBSHD and it was not the right cell. At 20ah it was still a bi5 of a sagging battery. California ebikes and West Coast Electrics bothe have decent packs with LG and Sanyo packs. PF is a d3cent cell but better suited to 20A controller, IMO.

Thank you yeah em3ev is out of ga packs and have no timeline when or if they are getting more

 

[jj25]

Thank you yeah em3ev is out of ga packs and have no timeline when or if they are getting more

Those two sites you mentioned dont have the entire kit I'm looking for I'd like to take your advice and and stick with em3ev and get the motor and battery from them I'd still like a high volt and amp battery so my last two options are a 30q and 35e

 

[Nova Haibike]

Yep Aluminum frame bikes have much lower weight limits, unless you buy a heavy duty model.. That's why I favor chrome moly bikes.. Steel is much more ductile, heaveir wall and can take abuse like no other material.

While steel is more ductile, wall thickness is really dependent on the design of the tube or frame in question; not every aluminum frame is built like a soda can. If anything, many if not most aluminum tubes are thicker walled than steel tubes. As for abuse, aluminum is more than up to the task. If it were not, there would not be aluminum handlebars, seatposts, rims, etc. For me, the real beauty of (top quality) steel is that smaller diameter steel tubes has more spring than stiff, larger diameter aluminum tubes...steel frames generally have a nicer ride quality. Aluminum is king now though; only niche manufacturers use steel tubes anymore.

 

[tomjasz]

Those two sites you mentioned dont have the entire kit I'm looking for I'd like to take your advice and and stick with em3ev and get the motor and battery from them I'd still like a high volt and amp battery so my last two options are a 30q and 35e

Both are very popular, especially the 30Q with a number of resellers.

 

[tomjasz]

Perhaps the batteries have shrink wrap applied to provide a tad more cushion, 'protection', and also to snug them up nicely
in the plastic battery case ? The shrink wrap in addition to the tack welded conductor can provide additional support to
hold the batteries together as a unit ? Just a guess.

John from CT

Absolutely, that's the positive. I understood the poster to say someone was negative about the construction using shrink wrap. I can almost guess who said that.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Good luck and have fun.. !

Please make sure you have someone tighten and true those wheels before you ride. I would get the most puncture resistant tire you can find for that rear wheel (I like Maxxis Excel) because changing a tube is a pain in the butt, esp on the road. Or perhaps a tire liner..

I'm so glad JoePah mentioned tires, especially quality tires. Tires seem to be the forgotten stepchild of the forums and with
heavy e-bike they are all the more important.

I like the Schwalbe product line which came on my bikes. I just replaced the original tires on my commuter with Schwalbe Marathon Plus, because I got two flats last fall, both times the rear tire, a huge chunk of glass and a chunk of steel.

As JoePah said, changing a tube, especially the rear with disc brakes is very difficult out on the road. The short time I've been riding the Marthon Plus they ride extremely well. I really like them. The additional internal rubber within the tire used for puncture protection cushions
the road 'buzz' vibrations that are normally present....Now you have a couple good tire choices...

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/Marathon_Plus_HS440

John from CT

 

[tomjasz]

I like Maxxis as well, i never cheap out on tires. Marathon as well as several other models are great. Doing some searching on zgoogle can find some great deals. However, 6 bikes , 4 on mediocre tires and no flats in 4 years. I must have hit the tire lottery.

 

[poken1151]

For learning about ebike conversions grin technology is probably the best site I have visited. http://www.ebikes.ca/
They also sell complete kits that are completely customizable to your needs. They also have a motor simulator that can give you some realistic expectations about both performance and range of a given motor/ battery/ bike combo.
My 2 cents, considering your weight and the hilly terrain, you are going to want either a mid-drive or a geared hub with a low speed motor wind for improved low speed torque. Also due to your weight, I'd recommend at least a 48V battery, preferably 52V. You will likely be disappointed with the performance and range of a 36V system.
If you decide to go with a mid-drive, Luna cycles, https://lunacycle.com/, is a good resource and place to order kits. The new BBSHD mid-drive motor was designed to make conversion simple for most bikes. (Just need to know your bottom bracket width and type). The biggest downside to a mid-drive is the increased wear and tear on the drivetrain components. The big upside is better hill climbing capability as the motor can use the bikes rear cassette gearing to improve low speed performance. (You will loose for front 3 speed chainring set). A rear hub motor will enable you to keep your entire 21spd drivetrain. Also if you do a rear hub, get 2 "torque arms" considering your weight to ensure long term reliability.

Lastly EM3EV, https://em3ev.com/ , is probably the best place to get an inexpensive reliable battery. You can order an entire hub motor kit there, but you need to know exactly what you want, as their site provides far less info than Grin.

Hey @Chris Hammond , so I'm curious, how do I fit two torque arms on the hub? They all seem to be closed rings and I have no idea how to get it over the wire on the other side. Or would they stack together on the same side?

 

[Chris Hammond]

Poken, I don't think there's much point putting 2 on one side, unless you have a thin/ small arm. The idea is to distribute the torque force to the frame more evenly without putting excess strain at the hub mount. Here's a link to Grin Tech's torque arm page, http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/torque-arms.html Here's a quote from Grin's page about putting on a second arm, "
For the torque arms we make with the thick ¼" axle plate, one is almost always more sufficient, but of course it never hurts to have two. Installing a 2nd torque arm will be tricky if you have a hub where the cable exits the end of the axle, as you'll need to cut the connectors off the wire and then reattach them.If you are using a 3rd party torque arm that is made from thinner 1/8" (3mm) metal plate, then we'd recommend doubling up and installing 2 arms."
FWIW, if you are using a rear hub 1 arm will be fine.

 

[John from Connecticut]

As I've mentioned prior, I have no e-bike kit design/build skills and don't pretend to , but a gut feeling... The combined weight
of the rider and future 'kit' bike will approach 400 pounds, 325 lbs for the rider / 55 ish lbs for the bike. In my opinion considering
the total gross bicycle weight this is not 'science project' time.....Buy a purpose built quality e-bike.

Safely stopping and controlling nearly 400 lbs in motion ( 20 mph + ) is a real concern.......

John from CT