Complete Details of Zen Mid-drive Motor - 500W (900W peak) power, 120Nm torque

[Gionnirocket]

@Ravi Kempaiah really looking forward to an update on this new motor and delivery schedule...

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hey guys,
Apologies for the delayed response. Google suite (Gmail, G-drive) doesn't work in China and all our company email and documents are on Google cloud. So, I had to use VPN using spotty mobile data connection and for a week, my Canadian phone data was not working. So, it was challenging for me to respond to email messages.
Coming back,
I visited Ananda yesterday and it was impressive to see their growth in the last 3 years.
We discussed at length on the performance of this new motor M6100, customization to make it US-market friendly. Below, you see the difference in the controller used in the regular 48V motor (uses a 63V capacitor) and 52V motor (uses a 80V capacitor). The firmware is also different on both. we are one of the rare few that use 52V system.
The motor armature is also bigger and allows for larger current - 30A than 20A on the regular M100 motor. So, this motor has tremendous potential and what we found is that it requires some update on the programming side and it would be a clear winner. It is smoother and lighter than M620 motor from Bafang. So, we have decided to work with them to fine tune this motor further.

I am flying back to Canada tomorrow and will share more details of our visit to Ananda, Bafang, and frame factories.

 

[Gionnirocket]

One thing that caught my eye if I'm reading the board correctly is that the 48v is marked UART whilst the 52V is marked CANbus

Safe travels. . .

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

One thing that caught my eye if I'm reading the board correctly is that the 48v is marked UART whilst the 52V is marked CANbus

Safe travels. . .

You have very sharp eyes!
Because our BMS and charger all communicate on CANbus, we have to use this. When you have CAN, the charger can precisely show SoC and stop the charging process once it reaches the desired voltage and error rate is much smaller.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You have very sharp eyes!
Because our BMS and charger all communicate on CANbus, we have to use this. When you have CAN, the charger can precisely show SoC and stop the charging process once it reaches the desired voltage and error rate is much smaller.

No one gonna slip it in the CAN_bus on me!

I'd think the benefits would be multifaceted with the higher level of communication between the display as well being able to convey such info as charge cycles, cell V, temperatures(battery/controller).. etc, and facilitating a more accurate range prediction...etc.

 

[CincyKid]

Hey guys,
Apologies for the delayed response. Google suite (Gmail, G-drive) doesn't work in China and all our company email and documents are on Google cloud. So, I had to use VPN using spotty mobile data connection and for a week, my Canadian phone data was not working. So, it was challenging for me to respond to email messages.
Coming back,
I visited Ananda yesterday and it was impressive to see their growth in the last 3 years.
We discussed at length on the performance of this new motor M6100, customization to make it US-market friendly. Below, you see the difference in the controller used in the regular 48V motor (uses a 63V capacitor) and 52V motor (uses a 80V capacitor). The firmware is also different on both. we are one of the rare few that use 52V system.
The motor armature is also bigger and allows for larger current - 30A than 20A on the regular M100 motor. So, this motor has tremendous potential and what we found is that it requires some update on the programming side and it would be a clear winner. It is smoother and lighter than M620 motor from Bafang. So, we have decided to work with them to fine tune this motor further.

I am flying back to Canada tomorrow and will share more details of our visit to Ananda, Bafang, and frame factories.

View attachment 176834

View attachment 176833

What is the benefit to a non-techy like me?

you see the difference in the controller used in the regular 48V motor (uses a 63V capacitor) and 52V motor (uses a 80V capacitor)

The motor armature is also bigger and allows for larger current - 30A than 20A on the regular M100 motor.

I understand words like "more power" 160nm vs 120nm, faster charging?, longer life span?, more distance?

 

[Gionnirocket]

What is the benefit to a non-techy like me?

Quoting lord Ravi "Higher the voltage, lower the current, and higher the torque.
All smart BMS is designed to work well with 52V system."
Additionally the lower the current, the less heat generated losses

I understand words like "more power" 160nm vs 120nm, faster charging?, longer life span?, more distance?

The motor is more robust delivering more power whilst still being reliable.

 

[Ebiker33]

Very interesting, I am sure other Canadians want to know if you will supply the Ananda M300 to our market once you have the issues worked out, maybe Q4 2024?

I keep saying this, I NEED higher watts not for speed, but for torque to climb large hills, I lock my controller in at the legal 32Km/hr
The laws for watts in Canada are so archaic, enforce the speed limits not the watts.
It's like cars we don't ban high horsepower cars that can go 250Km/hr but we enforce the speed limit on those same cars, they same should be done with Ebikes.
If you go super fast and crash, just like in a car that is the users fault not the suppliers.

The revision of the law should be the Ebike comes set at 32Km/hr from the suppler and this is locked with a password, so simple to fix really.
And the ones going to the USA can be unlocked

 

[scrambler]

"Higher the voltage, lower the current, and higher the torque."

I am confused / not sure about that

Typically my understanding is that Torque is driven by phase amps, and speed by phase voltage...

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Very interesting, I am sure other Canadians want to know if you will supply the Ananda M300 to our market once you have the issues worked out, maybe Q4 2024?

I keep saying this, I NEED higher watts not for speed, but for torque to climb large hills, I lock my controller in at the legal 32Km/hr
The laws for watts in Canada are so archaic, enforce the speed limits not the watts.
It's like cars we don't ban high horsepower cars that can go 250Km/hr but we enforce the speed limit on those same cars, they same should be done with Ebikes.
If you go super fast and crash, just like in a car that is the users fault not the suppliers.

The revision of the law should be the Ebike comes set at 32Km/hr from the suppler and this is locked with a password, so simple to fix really.
And the ones going to the USA can be unlocked

This feature will enter the market later this year. We saw the new displays from Bafang and they have dual battery options, Class 1,2,3 can be changed on the display and tune the torque and power curves using the App.
This is possible because all peripherals communicate via CANbus.
This will help cater to wider section of the market and enable full use of motor's power.

 

[Ebiker33]

This feature will enter the market later this year. We saw the new displays from Bafang and they have dual battery options, Class 1,2,3 can be changed on the display and tune the torque and power curves using the App.
This is possible because all peripherals communicate via CANbus.
This will help cater to wider section of the market and enable full use of motor's power.

View attachment 177279

So you program what the legal limits are at shipping, then the consumer can adjust it later if they want.
The only bottleneck I see is the controller amps then, what are they for this new motor, I would think 25-30