Class 3 Road Bikes

[Oski1997]

Are Trek, Giant and Yamaha the only bike companies that sell Class 3 Road Bikes (meaning with drop bars, 700cc tires and a double chain ring) with a minimum of a 70nm torque mid-drive motor, a minimum of a 500 watt battery and at least a Tiagra group set (preferably with a 105 or Ultegra group set)?

I know these are very specific components. But it’s the only kind of ebike I ride. Thanks, in advance, for your recommendations.

 

[Alaskan]

Cannondale, and Specialized have very nice class 3 road bikes as well. There may be others but those two come to mind right away.

Topstone Neo Carbon 2

An e-gravel bike like no other. Already the most off-road capable and on-road comfortable gravel bike, we’ve now added a Bosch motor for more power.

www.cannondale.com

Turbo Creo - Specialized

www.specialized.com

 

[Oski1997]

Cannondale, and Specialized have very nice class 3 road bikes as well. There may be others but those two come to mind right away.

Topstone Neo Carbon 2

An e-gravel bike like no other. Already the most off-road capable and on-road comfortable gravel bike, we’ve now added a Bosch motor for more power.

www.cannondale.com

Turbo Creo - Specialized

www.specialized.com

None of the specialized road bikes have a min of 70nm of torque and they have less than 500w batteries. The older I get the more I’ll actually need a min of 85nm of torque. The Cannondale has 65nm of toque but it does have all of the other specs and is nicely spec’d. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Alaskan]

None of the specialized road bikes have a min of 70nm of torque and they have less than 500w batteries. The Cannondale has 65nm of toque but it does have all of the other specs and is nicely spec’d. Thanks for the suggestions.

The Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon series all have a gen 4 Bosch speed motor. The latest firmware update on that motor boosts the max torque to 85 Nm and a 500 watt power tube. I ride a Topstone Neo Carbon 3 which is the same bike, more gravel oriented with a lefty suspension fork, 650b rims, weighs 39 lbs. and a 1x11 drive train. The Neo Carbon 2 with its fixed fork, 700a rims and 2x11 drive train is a bit more of a road bike and weighs 36 lbs.

The turbo creo has way less torque but with the internal 320 watt battery plus the160 watt battery boost that mounts sits in the bottle cage at the bottom of the seat tube, the total battery wattage is 480. Also note the turbo creo is a full 8-15 pounds lighter than any of the others at 28 lbs. Clearly a bike oriented towards a fitter rider and not the hill eater that the Bosch powered bikes are, but it likely has the greatest range.

 

[Oski1997]

The Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon series all have a gen 4 Bosch speed motor. The latest firmware update on that motor boosts the max torque to 85 Nm and a 500 watt power tube. I ride a Topstone Neo Carbon 3 which is the same bike, more gravel oriented with a lefty suspension fork, 650b rims, weighs 39 lbs. and a 1x11 drive train. The Neo Carbon 2 with its fixed fork, 700a rims and 2x11 drive train is a bit more of a road bike and weighs 36 lbs.

The turbo creo has way less torque but with the internal 329 watt battery plus the160 watt battery boost that mounts sits in the bottle cage at the bottom of the seat tube, the total battery wattage is 480. Also note the turbo creo is a full 8-15 pounds lighter than any of the others at 28 lbs. Clearly a bike oriented towards a fitter rider and not the hill eater that the Bosch powered bikes are, but it likely has the greatest range.

I just started riding a bike recently. I am fit but the last time I was on a bike I was 10-years old And that is great news about the Cannondale. With a single chain ring, I’m sure the 85nm torque motor will compensate for the lack of a double chainring.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

And now I see there’’s an aluminum frame Class 3 Topstone in the US as well, 1X11, a simpler setup for considerably less money. Wandering Student (I think that’s his handle) has a post somewhere here about it in another thread. Looks like a very good option.

 

[WattsUpDude]

And now I see there’’s an aluminum frame Class 3 Topstone in the US as well, 1X11, a simpler setup for considerably less money. Wandering Student (I think that’s his handle) has a post somewhere here about it in another thread. Looks like a very good option.

Just looked that up. Really quite nice.

 

[Alaskan]

You might want to take a look at Tern’s E-bikes at:

HSD | Tern Bicycles

Meet the HSD Enormously Useful. Surprisingly Smaller. The HSD is mighty but mini: It’s easy to handle, easy to share, extremely comfortable to ride, carries a whole lot of cargo—and all of this in a compact design that’s shorter than a standard bicycle.

www.ternbicycles.com

I just picked up an HSD S11 and it uses Bosch’s class 3 PerformanceLine Sport motor with assist up to 28MPH and 65nm of torque. Not sure if 20” tires is a deal-breaker but it’s the best e-Bike I test rode.

You might to move this comment to the appropriate thread. It is way off topic here. Just copy your comment, delete it and find a better, more on-topic thread and paste into a new comment there.

 

[Oski1997]

You might want to take a look at Tern’s E-bikes at:

HSD | Tern Bicycles

Meet the HSD Enormously Useful. Surprisingly Smaller. The HSD is mighty but mini: It’s easy to handle, easy to share, extremely comfortable to ride, carries a whole lot of cargo—and all of this in a compact design that’s shorter than a standard bicycle.

www.ternbicycles.com

I just picked up an HSD S11 and it uses Bosch’s class 3 PerformanceLine Sport motor with assist up to 28MPH and 65nm of torque. Not sure if 20” tires is a deal-breaker but it’s the best e-Bike I test rode.

I’m just keeping an eye out for my next road bike (700cc tires and a double chain ring are a must). But thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Oski1997]

And now I see there’’s an aluminum frame Class 3 Topstone in the US as well, 1X11, a simpler setup for considerably less money. Wandering Student (I think that’s his handle) has a post somewhere here about it in another thread. Looks like a very good option.

The Sora group set and the single chainring are a deal breaker. I‘m looking for at least a 105 group set with a double chain ring and a powerful motor (for my future purchase). I could only find the specs I want from Giant, Trek and Yamaha. I’m curious if those are the only bike manufacturers with these specs:

Road Bike with Drop Bars
700cc tires
double chain ring
a minimum of a 70nm torque mid-drive motor (ideally min. of 85nm)
a minimum of a 500 watt battery (ideally min. of 600 watts)
a minimum of a 105 group set (ideally with an Ultegra)

 

[jabberwocky]

Switching the groupset isn't that big a deal, especially as the crankset isn't something you need to worry about (since the arms are part of the motor assembly on ebikes). Full power road ebikes with doubles up front are definitely thin on the ground; it seems most mfgs think the future is in the creo-like machines for pure road bikes (lighter and lower power).

You already mentioned the Giant RoadE, Yamaha Civante (though Tiagra on this) and Trek Domane. I'd also look at the Canyon Grail-On and Niner RLT e9; both are geared towards gravel with single front rings and wide range cassettes but are class 3, 500whr batteries and come with high end components.

 

[nublar]

RLT e9 RDO E-Gravel Road Bike

The RLT e9 RDO is a multipurpose e-gravel bike for any adventure. We’re calling it our first e-gravel bike, but it’s more like a pedal-powered SUV.

ninerbikes.com

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The Sora group set and the single chainring are a deal breaker. I‘m looking for at least a 105 group set with a double chain ring and a powerful motor (for my future purchase). I could only find the specs I want from Giant, Trek and Yamaha. I’m curious if those are the only bike manufacturers with these specs:

Road Bike with Drop Bars
700cc tires
double chain ring
a minimum of a 70nm torque mid-drive motor (ideally min. of 85nm)
a minimum of a 500 watt battery (ideally min. of 600 watts)
a minimum of a 105 group set (ideally with an Ultegra)

There is one bike that comes very close to that description. It is more of a gravel bike than a road bike but the ride characteristics won't be too different.
It's the Diamondback current: https://crazylennysebikes.com/shop/diamond-back-current/
85Nm rated torque
Shimano gravel-specific GRX groupset.
500 Whr battery
700c tires - wider than road bikes
mounting points for rack and fender
Gravel- endurance geometry

 

[Oski1997]

There is one bike that comes very close to that description. It is more of a gravel bike than a road bike but the ride characteristics won't be too different.
It's the Diamondback current: https://crazylennysebikes.com/shop/diamond-back-current/
85Nm rated torque
Shimano gravel-specific GRX groupset.
500 Whr battery
700c tires - wider than road bikes
mounting points for rack and fender
Gravel- endurance geometry

Cool, thanks. I can’t tell if it has a double chainring but the rest of the specs look great.

 

[Johnny]

The Sora group set and the single chainring are a deal breaker. I‘m looking for at least a 105 group set with a double chain ring and a powerful motor (for my future purchase). I could only find the specs I want from Giant, Trek and Yamaha. I’m curious if those are the only bike manufacturers with these specs:

Road Bike with Drop Bars
700cc tires
double chain ring
a minimum of a 70nm torque mid-drive motor (ideally min. of 85nm)
a minimum of a 500 watt battery (ideally min. of 600 watts)
a minimum of a 105 group set (ideally with an Ultegra)

Funny my gravel with PW-SE satisfies most of these (if you remove speed limiter).
The 2x11 105 groupset is crisp, have a good range and keeps the chain line straight (for an ebike ultegra is not really bringing anything over a 105 because the weight savings are not that important and they are very similar otherwise, di2 is a different story though).

I think you are focusing on the max torque at the crank too much.

A question, what cadences are you riding most of the time?

 

[Oski1997]

Funny my gravel with PW-SE satisfies most of these (if you remove speed limiter).
The 2x11 105 groupset is crisp, have a good range and keeps the chain line straight (for an ebike ultegra is not really bringing anything over a 105 because the weight savings are not that important and they are very similar otherwise, di2 is a different story though).

I think you are focusing on the max torque at the crank too much.

A question, what cadences are you riding most of the time?

1/3 of the time we ride fast. My cadences are 75-105 because my friends with non-electric bikes like to ride 25-29mph for about an hour of our ride. One hour is steep hills, and the last hour is usually 14-18mph. I’m the only one with an ebike so I need the torque and the double chainring for the steep hills and the speed.

 

[Johnny]

1/3 of the time we ride fast. My cadences are 75-105 because my friends with non-electric bikes like to ride 26-29mph for about an hour of our ride. One hour is steep hills, and the last hour is usually 14-18mph.

At those cadences no mainstream mid drive, even when they peak, provide 85nm at the crank. This max torque is available until usually 65rpm, which may be beneficial to mtb riders but not road cyclists(you can take a look at the torque/cadence graph attached).

Moreover that is the peak value, not sustainable for long periods, it is meant to be for short bursts. Again for mtb this makes sense when you are dealing with an obstacle but not on the road where you need continuous power with somewhat stable/high cadences.

 

[Oski1997]

At those cadences no mainstream mid drive, even when they peak, provide 85nm at the crank. This max torque is available until usually 65rpm, which may be beneficial to mtb riders but not road cyclists(you can take a look at the torque/cadence graph attached).

Moreover that is the peak value, not sustainable for long periods, it is meant to be for short bursts. Again for mtb this makes sense when you are dealing with an obstacle but not on the road where you need continuous power with somewhat stable/high cadences.

View attachment 82041

I go pretty slow going up the steep climbs. So the torque really only helps me on on climbs. I didn’t know that. THANKS. So if I’m climbing for an hour at 30rpm, the 85nm or torque would be there to assist me theoretically until the battery dies. Correct? THANKS for the graph!! I’ve never seen that

 

[Oski1997]

At those cadences no mainstream mid drive, even when they peak, provide 85nm at the crank. This max torque is available until usually 65rpm, which may be beneficial to mtb riders but not road cyclists(you can take a look at the torque/cadence graph attached).

Moreover that is the peak value, not sustainable for long periods, it is meant to be for short bursts. Again for mtb this makes sense when you are dealing with an obstacle but not on the road where you need continuous power with somewhat stable/high cadences.

View attachment 82041

I found some power curves for the Yamaha SE motor. Do these graphs tell us anything about the Yamaha motor providing a consistent 70nm of torque? I read somewhere that the peak power of the PW-SE motor is 72rpm. Does that mean that with a cadence of 72, this motor can consistently supply the full 70nm of torque?

 

[Johnny]

I found some power curves for the Yamaha SE motor. Do these graphs tell us anything about the Yamaha motor providing a consistent 70nm of torque? I read somewhere that the peak power of the PW-SE motor is 72rpm. Does that mean that with a cadence of 72, this motor can consistently supply the full 70nm of torque?

These graphs are weird. I know the blog, but he does a poor job of explaining how the graphs should be read. He also talks about tuning the motor (rewinding with thicker wires).

What you need is a power vs cadence (or torque vs cadence which give the same information).

To supply 70nm at 72rpm motor output has to be outputting 530W continuously. That is way over the stated nominal 250W and most likely not sustainable for long periods.