Dallant
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
N.E. Iowa.wow nice background. Looks like Bilbo Baggins might live there. What state?
N.E. Iowa.wow nice background. Looks like Bilbo Baggins might live there. What state?
Sondors, Luna, and Bolton don't sell in Canada?
OK. I'll note that I think Haibikes current EMTB lineup is class 1 (or mostly class 1; I can't find anything other than class 1s on their website for the USA at least). Luna and Bolton seem to cater to the "rules don't apply to me" market, which, fine, but if the OP was in that market he wouldn't be trying to find actual class 1s over class 3s in the first place.My 2016 Haibike Full Seven is a class 3. Sondors sells class 2 with reprogramming for higher speed. Luna and Bolton sell eMTB that go faster than 20mph. "Pretty much all" is a broad statement.
I have a petition with the CPSC to preempt the 3-class legislation on the grounds that it violated interstate commerce laws. You can search for this petition on the EBR forum. Few care to take the time to really learn the facts of regulations (too busy watching the Kardashians or Duck Dynasty). Read HR727 and understand that was in place for over 12 years and no issues before PFBs started pushing the 3-class nonsense that has created problems. Learn what allowing the assist to continue past 20mph that would sustain a 170lb rider on a level surface at 20mph really means - it means an assist of 300-350W is allowed but that is quickly negated by aerodynamics above 20mph. All I can do is guide people to what the facts are ... I can not do the learning for them.I don't get the title of this thread, "A VANISHING BREED"?
"CLASS 1 EBIKES" pretty much the industry NORM and here to STAY.
(If the OP used CAPS, then surely I can too.)
After riding the trails for over a year the associated camp grounds opened for the first time since covid struck so I was able to talk to a ranger for the first time. The trails were all marked 20MPH and Class 2&3 prohibited. I have a Rad Rover ST and had always just unplugged the throttle prior to riding the trails which makes it function like a class1. I asked her if that was OK and she said it was. The one thing I forgot to ask her was why the 20MPH speed limit. The trails are 8' wide gravel with lots of sharp corners and hills and I don't think there was any place on them where it was safe to go that fast. In any case there are plenty of class 2 bikes out there which are easily converted to class 1 when necessary.I am contemplating getting an ebike with an "upright rider orientation." I really like the Cannondale Tesoro, the Specialized Turbo Vado SL, and the Kona DewE DL. I would like to be able to ride this bike on bike trails, most of which seem to have a 20 mph limit for ebikes. For the record, I think many riders can exceed 20mph on a regular bike, so I don't "get" the 20 mph ebike speed limit, but the law is the law nevertheless, regardless of how much sense it makes to me or how rigidly it is enforced. That being said, I'm trying to narrow my search exclusively to Class 1 20mph ebikes and that takes the Specialized Vados out of the running, as they are all Class 3 bikes. The Cannondale Tesoro, which is the one I was leaning toward, had an X3 model which was a Class 1 machine but I have now discovered that as of 2021, all Cannondale Tesoro ebikes will be Class 3s. That leaves the Konas, which are great bikes. But I am not real fond of the light green color. I know it shouldn't matter, but there it is. A Cannondale rep told me that some Cannondale Tesoros that were made for Canadian distribution (Canada also reportedly only allows Class 1 machines) might be floating around but I haven't found any. To sum up, I have two basic questions: anybody know of any other good Class 1 ebikes with an upright rider orientation and does anybody know if the laws regarding Class 3 ebikes have changed recently? Thanks for your help.
A good question for the ranger is why only Class 1? They'll mumble and stumble inarticulately. Does that ranger even understand that a cadence-assist ebike is essentially closer to a thottle-assist than what most of use consider a "pedelec" (there the priority programming logic is on crank torque)? Any engineer could explain to that ranger that it would be easy to design an assist system that power was controlled by the throttle but the throttle would only function if there was some crank cadence (ie the rider was required to be pedaling). I just get frustrated that people with little or know understanding of the tech are making decision policies that focus on trail access when the world needs a great urban mobility solution that simply will not happen if the industry prioritizes on Class 1 and Class 3 (which can't have a throttle yet is only allowed on the roads where every other vehicle has a throttle - not that is maybe the dumbest regulation of all).After riding the trails for over a year the associated camp grounds opened for the first time since covid struck so I was able to talk to a ranger for the first time. The trails were all marked 20MPH and Class 2&3 prohibited. I have a Rad Rover ST and had always just unplugged the throttle prior to riding the trails which makes it function like a class1. I asked her if that was OK and she said it was. The one thing I forgot to ask her was why the 20MPH speed limit. The trails are 8' wide gravel with lots of sharp corners and hills and I don't think there was any place on them where it was safe to go that fast. In any case there are plenty of class 2 bikes out there which are easily converted to class 1 when necessary.
I am not going to speculate about the motives of PFB or Bosch, but land managers need a reason to allow ebikes and face the inevitable complaints from walkers, runners, and horse riders. By banning some, but not all bikes, from trails they can seem to be doing something for each group.
The alternative is to just ban all ebikes.
I think OP is located in PA (my home state) and I know some localities are pretty strict about enforcement there, so its not unreasonable to try and find something legal (especially if you're just riding recreationally). To the OP, the big question is what brands your local shop that you like carries (if applicable). I know some of Cannondales entry level bikes use the Bosch active line motors which are 20mph limited. If you have a Giant dealer around, look at the Talon E (designed as a 29er hardtail, but with a tire swap would make a good path cruiser). Kona (also mentioned by OP) has two hardtail emtb models that are class 1 (El Kahuna and Remote) using Shimano motors. Any of the chinese hub motor brands (like Rad) could just have the throttle unplugged and removed too.I am not going to speculate about the motives of PFB or Bosch, but land managers need a reason to allow ebikes and face the inevitable complaints from walkers, runners, and horse riders. By banning some, but not all bikes, from trails they can seem to be doing something for each group.
The alternative is to just ban all ebikes.
Dude, could you maybe contain your personal crusade to one of the 50 threads you've started on the subject? The person who started this one is just looking for bike recommendations.stuff
Dude....he also asked if anyone knew if the Class 3 bike regulation had change recently.Dude, could you maybe contain your personal crusade to one of the 50 threads you've started on the subject? The person who started this one is just looking for bike recommendations.
We're almost neighbors!N.E. Iowa.
I was just visiting relatives in Decorah. But I made a 4 hr drive to Mankato to pick up my Trek Rail 5.We're almost neighbors!
Ah... that's my fault.Where is the OP located? I can't see any mention of Canada, though I could have missed that.
Also, OP stated he prefers to be legal, and specifically asked about class 1... Just saying .
Up until recently, I would agree with you.I have a Trek Allant 8s. I'm waiting for the day I get stopped on a bike path, the officer whips out a magnifying glass to read the bike serial number, types it in on his phone to see if it's class 1 or 3. IOW, not going to happen. I think manufacturers understand that for the USA market, these limits are in theory, not practice.
I'd like to hear of one example of someone riding a class 3 sanely on a restricted bike path that got stopped. Haven't heard of even one case.