kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
Nope. I've got that Taiwan sticker.
Class 1 alternative to Vado SL?
- Thread starter Calcoaster
- Start date
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Who knows? At what speed do you get the motor cut-off?
kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
I've never really considered it. So next time I ride I will try and determine that.
are these volunteers sworn? are they properly trained In all aspects of radar gun use? are they regularly retrained? do they submit supporting depositons? are they required to show up in court?
I'd be pretty reluctant to pay that fine w/o a fight.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I hope your motor will cut off at 28 mph
If not, your Specialized dealer is obliged to reprogram your Creo to the U.S. conditions.
kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
Is it that easy to REPROGRAM the speed limit? I know you had to buy separate "chips" to de-restrict your bike(s).I hope your motor will cut off at 28 mph
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The dealer will use their Turbo Studio software and will set the Creo for the U.S. region. It is easy for the dealer, impossible for J. Doe.
P.S. A Specialized dealer in EBR Forum once explained the only thing the dealer must not do is setting anything illegal, at the cost of his dealership.
kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
I don't want to really derail this thread but I guess my question is kind of applicable to the issue of e-bike class power.
In Post #40 above, I posted a picture of a label found under my top tube near where is joins the seat tube. The label says that my US purchased Creo is set for a "Maximum Assistance Speed: 25km/h". I don't know if that is true or not as I have never really checked any limitations while riding. But now I'm curious if others with either the Creo or other SL and maybe other bikes have a similar label and what it might show. And this question would apply to any Specialized e-bikes either from Europe, the US, Canada or Asia. Again, from the above thread, I cannot find any label on my Creo specifying its CLASS.
Thanks for taking part and replying.
In Post #40 above, I posted a picture of a label found under my top tube near where is joins the seat tube. The label says that my US purchased Creo is set for a "Maximum Assistance Speed: 25km/h". I don't know if that is true or not as I have never really checked any limitations while riding. But now I'm curious if others with either the Creo or other SL and maybe other bikes have a similar label and what it might show. And this question would apply to any Specialized e-bikes either from Europe, the US, Canada or Asia. Again, from the above thread, I cannot find any label on my Creo specifying its CLASS.
Thanks for taking part and replying.
rochrunner
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Rochester Hills MI
If your bike was built in 2019, it might have been before the e-bike "class system" was formalized in the U.S. Also, I believe that the 25kph limit applied (and still applies) to Canada (really a shame since that's only 16mph)! When the motor was replaced (under warranty) on my Vado 4.0 in 2020, I rode it home from the shop and immediately noticed that I wasn't getting a boost at 20mph let alone 28. So I took it right back and they found that it hadn't been reprogrammed from its original configuration, which was for Canada. Big difference!
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Guys, let me explain.
- To keep it simple, U.S. Class 1 is 20 mph, and Class 3 is 28 mph. (Let us leave Class 2 aside).
- The Canada allows only 32 km/h (20 mph) e-bikes.
- Europe limits e-bikes to 25 km/h (it is 15.5 mph for the UK). L1e-B "mopeds" (up to 45 km/h and 4 kW) are allowed under strict conditions. (It is different in Switzerland that allows Speed E-Bikes easily, hence Stromer).
- Australia is 25 km/h.
- Japan is 24 km/h.
- New Zealand is very liberal: 32 km/h off-road and 45 km/h on-road.
- There exist several mid-drive motors optimized for speed. These are mostly used in Euro S-Pedelecs.
- With the full power (250 W nominal) mid-drive e-bikes, the speed limit is just set by regional distributor to follow the country's law just by setting a software switch. It is because the full power e-bikes are powerful enough to become Class 3 vehicles. The same Vado 5.0 will be 28 mph in the United States but only 25 km/h in Europe, and 32 km/h in Canada.
- With low power e-bikes such as Specialized SL ones, the rules of speed restriction remain the same, only an upright low power e-bike such as Class 3 Vado SL won't reach 28 mph because of too low power (a Creo might do that thanks to the aero riding position).
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
@Calcoaster (and I think @timacn might be interested).
@Brendon@TBSM: Could you -- as a dealer -- answer this question:
Vado SL is U.S. Class 3. Some users would like to buy that e-bike under the condition it were downgraded to Class 1. Are you, as a dealer, allowed to downgrade a given e-bike to Class 1 and attach the Class 1 sticker?
Another question: @timacn was interested in Class 1 e-bikes of high torque mid-motors (say, 70-90 Nm). Any suggestions?
@Brendon@TBSM: Could you -- as a dealer -- answer this question:
Vado SL is U.S. Class 3. Some users would like to buy that e-bike under the condition it were downgraded to Class 1. Are you, as a dealer, allowed to downgrade a given e-bike to Class 1 and attach the Class 1 sticker?
Another question: @timacn was interested in Class 1 e-bikes of high torque mid-motors (say, 70-90 Nm). Any suggestions?
rochrunner
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Rochester Hills MI
As I said earlier, my Vado 4.0 was "temporarily" a Class 1, 20mph e-bike after the replacement motor was installed until the dealer reprogrammed it to proper U.S. (28mph) Class 3 configuration. I'm sure that process could be reversed, but not sure of Specialized policy on that matter, although the literature that came with my bike did include a Class 1 sticker!
Dewey
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Arlington, Virginia
Thank you Stefan, this is the way. In those states that have adopted the People for Bikes 3-class model ebike legislation the standard wording permits dealers to do just this and apply a new Class sticker.
Last week Giant launched a Class 3 cargo ebike the Momentum PakYak, and this liability issue is the thing that makes me hesitate to recommend it. I have ebike liability insurance from Markel but there is an exclusion clause that requires the rider follow local regulations and both the local county and Park Service Regs around here say only Class 1 & 2 can ride on the local paved trails, over the river in Washington, DC, it’s even stricter as Class 3 ebikes are not permitted to ride on-street bicycle infrastructure including PBL’s.
Last edited:
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
Hey Stefan,
You can change the Vado/Como to either 32kph or 45kph but there's no sticker that's available. I haven't messed with the SL's all that much but I suspect it's the same. For a Vado AL class 1 alternative check out the BMC Amp bikes, can be in the low 30's weight wise, Shimano class 1 pedal assist, pretty cool!
Alpenchallenge AMP City - E-Bike AMP - Models
www.bmc-switzerland.com
Calcoaster
Active Member
- Region
- USA
(I’m the o.p.) My friend asked her local Specialized store if it is possible to restrict the Vado SL to meet class 1 standards and was told no, it can’t be done. She then emailed Specialized corporate with the same question and was told Yes, it is an easy process that can be done at the local store. She bought one and hasn’t decided if she will have it restricted, but has written confirmation that it can be done if she chooses.
My class 3 stickers for the Vado SL and Creo are up a few inches higher on the seat tube very close to the interface with the motor housing. I have water bottle/RE Battery holders installed so they are typically covered up. Not sure if they were placed there by the factory or the LBS. I like the location. If I'm ever riding where class 3 bikes are not allowed it will be hard to find them and/or I can claim ignorance.
Calcoaster
Active Member
- Region
- USA
My Vado sl 4.0 sticker is on the seat tube, just below the water bottle mount. “Class 3, 240 W, 28 mph”
Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
Search Youtube for "45mph 3000w Carbon Electric Bike". This is what people had in mind when they created the laws, not something like a Creo. One of the videos is a 45mph test ride down a Cali beach path passing walkers.
kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
Okay, I went out riding today. I found a flat almost straight-away section and started pedaling furiously. I had the bike to about 22 mph in Eco (30/60, I think) when the path started to curve. I still felt the motor in the mix. It was not like when you Press/HOLD the Power Sector Button (and the motor drops out). In a RESTRICTED bike would the motor simply drop out like the Press/Hold or would it resist the pedaling higher speed. Again, my label (USofA bike) shows the 25km/h limit so would it have dropped out at around 15mph if it were restricted?
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