Charging question - don't overcharge?

[tomjasz]

I agree with most of what has been said.
First and foremost... Using the battery as needed for full enjoyment of riding takes priority.
That said I can charge my battery to 85% and get my 20+ mile daily ride done and return home with 65%
This works well for me as I don't necessarily need to charge the next day to get another ride in and if I do charge back to 85%, it's done rather quickly.
Also if I get busy or rained out for a few days, especially in the winter... 65% is a pretty good storage state.
So for me on most days charging to 100% has no advantage. On longer rides charging to 100% early that morning from 85% is done quickly and easily without stressing me or the battery much.

Use it or lose it. I have quite a few lost dollars having overbought batteries when answering Luna support emails in 2016 and getting super pricing. I’m in the beat on it side from here. And decent batteries have really gotten less expensive. 21700. 50E now better priced than 35E and I’ve never had a pack with as low sag at below freezing temperatures.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Use it or lose it. I have quite a few lost dollars having overbought batteries when answering Luna support emails in 2016 and getting super pricing. I’m in the beat on it side from here. And decent batteries have really gotten less expensive. 21700. 50E now better priced than 35E and I’ve never had a pack with as low sag at below freezing temperatures.

Yes... Definitely enjoy yourself!
And I don't try to conserve battery to extend battery life.... But by using less battery that means I'm working harder so I use it as incentive to push myself.
So point being its not a one answer fits all. Charging to 100% would only allow more individual rides between charges... and that's not really much of a convenience for me.

 

[username00101]

OK, so let me try to understand this. Don't charge the battery at 100% or it shortens the # of cycles by 300%. f*ck. Why don't they have an option on the charger for what % to reach?

Maybe other e bike riders sit there and wait until it hits 80% and turn it off. By the time I get around to considering the e-bike it's long since at 100%.

So what to do. A timer or something?

 

[tomjasz]

No. Charging to 80% may extend your battery life. And yes, some use a timer and a multimeter to manage within a few percent of ideal.

 

[tomjasz]

Read this. Follow Ravi’s parts for good science.

 

[6zfshdb]

Why don't they have an option on the charger for what % to reach?

So what to do. A timer or something?

If you have the $$, consider a Grin Satiator programmable charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Cycle-Satiator-Programmable-Electric-Battery/dp/B00VB2BXGG

Yes, it's close to half the cost of a new battery but, if used properly, it could pay for itself by prolonging battery life. This is especially true if you have several batteries.

 

[AHicks]

Another thought/opinion on charging to 100%. From what I've read and experienced over the last 10-15 years (I use this type battery chemistry in radio control as well - same thing only not as big), it's about long term storage (over a week or so), with the unused battery sitting at 100%, that's not real "battery friendly". Many (most?) will tell you that they charge to 100% before a longer trip. I think that can happen 2-3 days before you leave without too much trouble. The thing to avoid is to fully charge then leave it sitting for a couple of weeks before you use it. A day or 2 isn't hurting a thing from a practical standpoint.

So my point is, if you are riding daily, or even several times a week, there's little downside to a 100% charge..... IMHO

 

[Zekeer]

This is to much nonsense to accomplish what ? Maybe over the life of the battery a couple extra charges ?? Or buying so many extra batteries they sit around ? That's not good either . It's almost akin to only riding your bike on 8 mile trips because it saves rubber wear They are bikes . If you ride enough to charge your battery 8 x a wk -32 times a month . Your battery will last 1 year . Most likely with that much use your bike would be in need of all kinds of maintenance .

Realistically if you rode 100 miles a week . WHich is still alot . You'd be charging to full enough your battery would last lets say 4 years . I know someone with I believe is a 2017 or 18 Vado 6 . He has 400 plus charges on his battery .

All these figures assume you are out riding every day of the year . Most riders -Even those really into it . Average around 5 -6 months of yearly riding . Just based on weather conditions alone .

I would guess the best way to conserve your batteries life . Would be storing it after every ride in average room temps . Just Saying

I need to go rake up some acorns . Unfortunately I have to stop after 2 hrs to extend the life of my rake And yes it is the same mentality

 

[tomjasz]

I know someone

Yeah sure. We all have anecdotes. Sadly we’ve morphed into a culture we’re a large percentage of adults trust anecdotes over science. Sad really. You experts know more then the best engineers. Really a shame you feed this to those asking an honest question.

Ahicks does make a good point, temperature and storage are also VERY important.

 

[username00101]

No. Charging to 80% may extend your battery life. And yes, some use a timer and a multimeter to manage within a few percent of ideal.

The data shows it extends the # of cycles by a factor of 300% or more by bringing it to 80%. versus 100%.

 

[tomjasz]

The data shows it extends the # of cycles by a factor of 300% or more by bringing it to 80%. versus 100%.

It indicates, that it's possible, but again, as @AHicks and others point out there are other mitigating circumstances. FWIW I have two and had a third but will never go to 72V so that one was sold. I've been using them since introduced and on 24V, 36V, 48V, and 52V batteries from 5 different builders and home built.

 

[AHicks]

Hey Al, you use a similar, but different chemistry in those LiPo packs for RC. There are significant differences. I appreciate that experience but perhaps we’re better off being clearer about the differences?

Granted, minor differences in chemistry, and when in use, WAY bigger loads on each cell in an RC battery. The much higher performance expectations on the RC batteries also demand that multi cell packs be kept in balance. That's something the e-bike batteries don't need to be too concerned with.

Properly maintained RC batteries (those utilizing "best practices") can last quite a while. While those stored long term at 100%, run way down, charged too fast, etc. will puff up to about 20% bigger in size and become dangerous to use.

Bottom line/the bigger point, is that the battery "best practices", are exactly the same (e-bike battery vs. those used in RC).

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks Al!

 

[Gionnirocket]

This is to much nonsense to accomplish what ? Maybe over the life of the battery a couple extra charges ?? Or buying so many extra batteries they sit around ? That's not good either . It's almost akin to only riding your bike on 8 mile trips because it saves rubber wear They are bikes . If you ride enough to charge your battery 8 x a wk -32 times a month . Your battery will last 1 year . Most likely with that much use your bike would be in need of all kinds of maintenance .

Realistically if you rode 100 miles a week . WHich is still alot . You'd be charging to full enough your battery would last lets say 4 years . I know someone with I believe is a 2017 or 18 Vado 6 . He has 400 plus charges on his battery .

All these figures assume you are out riding every day of the year . Most riders -Even those really into it . Average around 5 -6 months of yearly riding . Just based on weather conditions alone .

I would guess the best way to conserve your batteries life . Would be storing it after every ride in average room temps . Just Saying

I need to go rake up some acorns . Unfortunately I have to stop after 2 hrs to extend the life of my rake And yes it is the same mentality

You know I've yet to see a single person that agrees with the science to only charge to the level necessary and to stay below maximum when possible also suggest to cut your rides short or to not use your ebike to its full enjoyment. Yet there's always a handful of know_nothing_at_alls that suggest that that's what we are saying and assert that they know better.
Just judging from the likes you got is proof enough for me that you know not much. Might I suggest you take a handful of those acorns and stuff them in your ears as that could only increase your understanding.

 

[dodgeman]

I have a timer and just guess to charge it in the 80% to 90% range. I also charge it to 100% at times thinking it may balance the battery. There was no mention in the Trek or Bosch literature about charging to less than 100% but there was about long term storage by having it less than 80%. Like someone else said, it’s a shame to cut your ride short because your forget to charge to 100%, I just have to think ahead.

 

[pmcdonald]

I started a thread a little while back to try and solicit some real world stats on charging patterns and battery degradation. You can draw your own conclusions from the limited sample pool. Mine (as a pretty religious 80/20 charger) is that it's probably not worth the effort for all but the most high mileage riders.

 

[Taylor57]

I was monitoring charging with my ebikes for awhile and finally just decided to plug them in and max em out. Ride em and charge em. I was doing the same thing with my Ecar. Only charging to 89% etc and worrying about getting below 20%. Now I charge it to 100% and drive it. Life is too short to try and babysit a fluckin battery...

 

[J.R.]

While I was commuting year round, I was riding more than 6,000 miles a year. New to ebiking in 2014, I had one ebike and one battery, 576 watt hour. Nobody was talking about 80/20 back then. I would put the bike on charge before I went to bed, to wake up to a charged battery. Winter riding really cut down on range, 20°F/-6°C and lower. There wasn't the experience there is here today to draw on. Range was always a concern, I was riding 34+ miles a day. That 2014 pack can still get me a 20 to 25 mile ride today.

Better bikes, several packs, I treat them better. I don't have to drain them, I just take a spare. I can easily do 60 miles at 7 watt hour per mile. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. I also never go to bed with packs charging, can't believe i did that. Often I'll charge to 90%, but most often 100%. I used to worry about state of health, I don't anymore. It might seem like complacency, but experience has led me to believe the concern is often over stated.

Of course - your mileage may vary This time that phrase fits the topic!

 

[Axis]

I agree with virtually everything that has been said. I ride alot. I charge to 100% every single time. I know it does degrade the battery faster but I honestly don’t care. The bike mechanic was likely hedging bets that you will not ride your ebike as much as you think you will (most don’t) so he gave good middle of the road advice. I bought my vado in march and never went back to the shop. Because nothing ever really went wrong. I am a competent bicycle mechanic and after 2000 miles i just replaced the chain, brake pads, and tires myself. Check out these brand spanking new pathfinder tan wall tires! As Queen sang “get on your bike and ride”!

 

[username00101]

The data does clearly show a massive difference between charging to 60-80% versus charging to 100%.

One solution is to buy a bike that has a built in second battery pack so that one can still ride 50+ miles on an 80% charge and triple the number of cycles they get as a result.