Charging Procedure

[Slaphappygamer]

Ravi
How is the average rider/bike owner know which is what type of BMS/chargers are?

A great question. I contacted Ride1Up about the BMS. I specifically asked what its rating was. I got no answer because, I believe, A) they don’t know or B) they know I’m looking to modify my bike in some way. Either way, I got no answer. This leads me to believe that most sellers are selling the bike to you, then it’s all up to you for any needs.

 

[il Munduato]

Ravi
How is the average rider/bike owner know which is what type of BMS/chargers are?

Good question.
My Zen battery and charger came with no information or instructions.
When specific questions were asked... They went unanswered.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Good question.
My Zen battery and charger came with no information or instructions.
When specific questions were asked... They went unanswered.

We now have a detailed manual for every bike.
All our batteries and chargers are UL-certified. In fact, for the charger, we had to work with them to introduce a transceiver to be able to setup a handshake with the BMS.
Please drop an email and we can send you the PDF.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi
How is the average rider/bike owner know which is what type of BMS/chargers are?

We have taken apart dozens of E-bike batteries, and most BMS come with a rudimentary BMS and charging circuit. It is safe to assume that most of the batteries don't have pre-charge or pre-discharge circuits.
It is a shame that the E-bike industry is so focused on marketing that critical technical information is left out. Please keep the questions coming so we can build a robust battery/charger safety document.

 

[snipechief]

Never plug in or un-plug under power. This has always worked for me no matter.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Never plug in or un-plug under power. This has always worked for me no matter.

The manual for my Specialized Vado SL 5.0 — a well-engineered ebike by any standard — says unequivocally that the charger should be plugged into the wall first, then the bike. Once done charging, the battery end should be disconnected first.

They know their battery/BMS/charger system better than anyone here, so I'll be doing it their way.

 

[PCeBiker]

Never plug in or un-plug under power. This has always worked for me no matter.

It depends on the BMS and charger combination.

I have three batteries, and with one of them, if I connect the battery to the charger before the charger is plugged in, I get One HELL Of A Crack/Spark that scares the beJesus outta me.

The other two batteries are fine to be connected that way, and one is Supposed to be connected that way.

 

[snipechief]

It depends on the BMS and charger combination.

I have three batteries, and with one of them, if I connect the battery to the charger before the charger is plugged in, I get One HELL Of A Crack/Spark that scares the beJesus outta me.

The other two batteries are fine to be connected that way, and one is Supposed to be connected that way.

Ya, that is scary. I guess one must read the Man U L ;-)>

 

[il Munduato]

Yes all things Specialized are the pinnacle of engineering and knowledge which is instantly transferred to the owner at the moment of purchase.

 

[PCeBiker]

I managed to take some close up pictures of my charge port on my battery.

The pitting on the contact terminal is from metal that got vaporized.

I had Huge Sparks about 6 times when I forgot to plug the charger in first.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yes all things Specialized are the pinnacle of engineering and knowledge which is instantly transferred to the owner at the moment of purchase.

I'm never joining that cult.

If I ever had a Specialized ebike, I'd remove the ♥ lungs, and and install non-proprietary components.

 

[il Munduato]

If I ever had a Specialized ebike... I'd be a . . . .

 

[PCeBiker]

I knew of a guy that owned a Lamborghini. He lived at home with his parents and spent every penny he had to pay for the car.
He never could the afford insurance and never once drove the car.

Another guy that owned a Harley but never had a license to ride it.
He spent all his free time polishing the motorcycle in his driveway.

 

[il Munduato]

Well a Specialized isn't a Lamborghini... but don't try to tell someone who rides one

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I saw a Lamborghini today. It was in traffic, doing 2 mph because of horrible traffic. Then I thought “cool car to sit in traffic in. But why though?”

 

[PCeBiker]

I decided to do one final spark test using my UL listed Das-Kit charger.
(I named that battery Sparky )

I'm supposed to plug the battery in first as per the instructions with my Das-Kit ebike but this battery doesn't like to be connected that way and YELLS at me when I do so.


The charger specifically states "Backfeed Protection", so I felt comfortable enough to plug the battery in first, followed by plugging in the charger.
(I did lean WAY off to the side and ducked though. )

NO SPARK !!!@?

The charger also says "Do Not Open", but I did to turn it down to ~53 volts, (that's as far as I can turn it down) so now I use it to partially charge my batteries after a ride, then I fully charge my batteries right before a ride.


Then to further test everything I plugged and unplugged everything every possible way to see what would happen.

Everything way fine except a tiny bit of "fuzz" when I plugged the charger into the outlet.
You can tell by the sound and light show how much energy is involved, and the sparking at the outlet is barely noticeable.

As mentioned here before, I'd rather replace an outlet or cord than replace my charge port on my battery, and I'd rather have some sparking at the outlet than in my battery.

Chargers usually come with a standard replaceable cord that plugs into the charger unless you perhaps have a Very SPECIAL charger with the cord wired directly into the charger.
Then you get to buy a new charger when your cord needs to be replaced.

So,.. I'm quite happy with my UL listed charger.
It appears to be well designed and can work with any battery, no matter how you plug things in.
I'm sure that's all part of being UL listed.
Mistakes always happen, so why not make a proper charger that prevents mistakes.

I'm sure @Ravi Kempaiah 's UL listed chargers are safe to use no matter how tired or drunk or stoned the end user might be.

I do wonder what would happen if my charger was plugged into a 36 volt battery?
The battery's BMS had better be a proper and safe design.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yes all things Specialized are the pinnacle of engineering and knowledge which is instantly transferred to the owner at the moment of purchase.

Not necessarily the pinnacle but a pretty competent and experienced manufacturer.

So practically speaking, who should I bet on here — the Specialized manual, or EBR members with unknown credentials in these matters?

We have fairly compelling evidence from @Ravi Kempaiah and others that ebikes differ WRT proper charger connection and disconnection sequences. In the absence of very strong evidence to the contrary, the manual is the better bet by far.

 

[il Munduato]

Not necessarily the pinnacle but a pretty competent and experienced manufacturer.

So practically speaking, who should I bet on here — the Specialized manual, or EBR members with unknown credentials in these matters?

We have fairly compelling evidence from @Ravi Kempaiah and others that ebikes differ WRT proper charger connection and disconnection sequences. In the absence of very strong evidence to the contrary, the manual is the better bet by far.

If you search on here you'll see this discussion many a time... and I've always said just follow the manufacturer instructions. For most here with the more advanced batteries this is a non issue and I've only had this issue with the most basic of batteries. 1 of 3 types I've owned.
Though Ravi is an expert... my Zen came without instruction and multiple inquiries on battery function went ignored.

 

[PCeBiker]

Though Ravi is an expert... my Zen came without instruction and multiple inquiries on battery function went ignored.

My guess is that it doesn't matter so it doesn't need to be mentioned in the manual?

Then again the Zen e-bikes do come with a very strange shifter and no documentation on how to operate it??

 

[Chargeride]

The spark is the capacitors discharging, I can tell you something interesting from my telecom days.
A long cable acts as a capacitor, in fact you can store power in a drum of two core wire.
This has the effect of rounding the edges of a digital signal, but the constant 0 an 1s discharge this effect, but if too many Os or 1s are produced in succession it charges up the cable and degrades the signal, so then the software flips the output until another run and then flips it back.

See, you learn a new thing every day.