Charger question - feedback

[Ravi Kempaiah]

There are a lot of E-bike chargers varying in price and quality.
There are chargers that cost $320 and there are chargers that cost $40 and everything in between.
I wanted to know if any of you have used Luna Smart Charger and if you care to share your experience, I would be eager to learn more.
Also, what feature you value the most in a charger?
Is it fast charging or smart charging, please do share !

 

[tomjasz]

why Stromer charger cost $349 ?

Because they can.

 

[opimax]

I have a charger that does 2-4-6-8-10 amp charging along with 80-90-100 % and I have a charger that does 4 amp only 100%. The one I use the most by far is the quiet one , the 4 amp. I would do some 90% 2 amp as my normal if it was quiet. I have 2 of each chargers for currently 5 batteries although mainly 3 at a time. I use 2 of the quiet ones and charge 3 batteries 2 at a time And then the 3rd battery before I sleep.

it is nice to have fast charging the few times I have needed it but it is rare currently. I can’t remember the last time I charged while actually out on my bike. I prefer to carry extra batteries on trips. If/when I start traveling on my bike I will use fast charging i am sure.

 

[tomjasz]

Also, what feature you value the most in a charger?
Is it fast charging or smart charging, please do share !

One charger for all my batteries. 36v, 48v, and 52V
Being able to set whatever percentage I want and data tracking to follow battery usage and lifespan. I have an early Satiator, a 72V(sold), and the latest 63V max version.

I rarely use the 5A-8A but it's nice when it's urgent to top off. Typically I charge at 1A. Three new batteries will allow me to charge long and slow.

I have several older Luna chargers and they both died within months. I do also have 3-4 liitokala fanless cheap chargers I use outdoors occasionally in the warm weather.

Currently on sale! The price has gone up. Probably the last chance at this price. $269 delivered.

 

[George S.]

If the sun is out, and it's fairly warm, I use a Boost MPPT solar charger that comes out of China. You can set the voltage, so you don't have to do a full charge. I use 56v for my LFP packs, 53 for the standard cells. I have a couple of these units. Some were $30. They will handle 300 watts, but it you want to slow charge just hook up fewer panels. In the winter I use this converter from Amazon. I set the voltage I want, and the amps. It needs a heat sink for big amps, but the ones I looked at were as much as the module. So I set it for 70 watts. I hook it to my 140 amp hour LFP set, 12v from ancient CALB cells. Probably from some bus somewhere. I don't know why people don't know how you charge lith cells, the whole CC-CV 4.2V thing. It's nuts. Charge from power supplies, charge from cheap lithium packs, whatever. Some of these prices are nuts.

Amazon.com

 

[tomjasz]

if Grin does not have 72V in stock

They are available. The 2nds sold out. 25% off until the 31st.

If anyone wants a 72V Satiator charger, HillEater has on in stock.

$397 Canadian ($311.61 USD) C$444.64 with tax in CA.

it's on sale. That's not a great price! $324 CA, shipping $20 or a bit less. From Grin.

Subtotal	USD$339.00
Discount (Christmas 25% Off Satiator Promo)	-USD$84.75
Order Total Incl. Tax	USD$254.25
Order Total Excl. Tax	USD$254.25

What do you mean by that?
Are they available or sold out?

Sheesh, 2nds were $200 they are sold out. They had waterproofing issues.
But the fully functional is still on sale. See their pages.

Some of these prices are nuts.

Fortunately the unwashed don't go this route. Using Meanwell high-quality power supplies, as you know, is quite common. But I dare say not suitable for most here.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Along with our batteries, we also plan to warranty our chargers for 3 years.
So, we are carefully evaluating the market.
I think there is a need for a high-quality charger that will work reliably for 5+ years. Something that is quiet with adjustable voltage and current.

 

[Solarcabin]

There are some dangers with fast charging and it results in higher temp and more likely to cause a burn out and fire.

In General a 2-3 amp charger will charge fast enough for most users and not over heat the battery,

I have 3 ebikes and charge from a 400 watt off grid solar system with a 500 watt inverter.

I only charge when I am around to watch the battery in case of a fire and I prefer to charge outside when possible.

If someone finds those explosion proof bags at a reasonable price I would get one of those and put the battery inside when charging.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Why don't you just sell Grin Satiator?
You can sell generic chargers from AliExpress or Alibaba chargers, which is fine.

But Juiced Bikes, HillEater, and I'm sure other ebike companies sell Satiator charger.

We are looking to sell a high-quality charger for $149 and offer a 3-year warranty.
We don't want it to cost any more than $150. I think that is a sweet middle ground.
$40 chargers are not rugged enough to be used in varied conditions. $300 chargers serve only a small % of the market. A good example is yourself. You have not bought the $320 charger because you are happy with what you got for $50.

 

[Art Deco]

I personally charge the battery on the bike outside or in the garage, so not interested in an expensive charger that's just another thing to need to lock up.

 

[theemartymac]

I bought the Luna charger you pictured (Grin Satiator was backordered when I tried to order one), and like it a lot. 1.5 yrs use with many dozens of cycles and no issues, although I have read that reliability can vary. It has the right basic features for me in that it has the 80/90/100% selector, amp output choice for rate of charge, and a little LED that gives basic voltage, etc.. I still would like to grab a GRIN at some point as I'm techy and would like to have the history, etc.

I'd also like to see a "travel" sized fanless charger that is tiny and light to take with me for say 3amp top ups on the road.

The perfect charger for me would have all that, and be useful on multiple batteries from 36-60v with just another selector. Maybe even with dual battery outputs for smart charging 2 at a time. I have one of those for my 12V AGM boat batteries (Pro Mariner) for my trolling motors, and it's nice to have one unit mounted on the wall that does 3x 6v-24v in all battery types. As a guy with multiple bikes, I'd appreciate that type of unit as well....

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

But what are you offering for $150, other than 3 year warranty?

One could change the voltage and current just like any programmable charger.
Also, it would be fanless (some of these fan chargers are obnoxiously loud). Overall a very sturdy design that would last many years.
Currently, we are exploring features like an LCD panel and bluetooth connectivity.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

36-60v with just another selector.

Thank you for sharing your experience. That is exactly what we want to achieve. A fine granularity in voltage and current settings.

We could actually source the exact charger that you bought but we have also heard about the reliability concerns.
Once we hit $300, that's almost like an EV charger territory and I think we could do better than that.

LECTRON 240-Volt 40 Amp Level 2 EV Charger with 18 ft Extension Cord J1772 Cable & NEMA 14-50 Plug Electric Vehicle Charger EVCharge14-50-40A - The Home Depot

The Lectron EV Charger surpasses your standard factory-issued charger, cutting total charge time by 7.5 times . It features an LED display which notifies you of any charging faults, and an extra long 18 feet cable to better ensure reachability. NEMA 14-50 EV charger (SAE J1772 compliant) is...

www.homedepot.com

If it is just voltage and current variation, that's easy to do but making very UI/UX friendly takes time.

 

[tomjasz]

But if I were you, I'd rather just sell Grin Satiator that's already been proven on market.

But you’re not. And all the opinions are based on Google searches and zero experience. You’re a helpful fella but it’s mostly reiterating your search results.

 

[theemartymac]

Is there demand for bluethooth connectivity? Is this for programming?

I wouldn't expect this at the $100-150 price point, but as an option for a luxury charger the ability to leave it plugged in full-time and manage/monitor the battery live would be useful for some. For daily commuters, there could be huge value if the charger could be programmed to wait until say middle of the night to start and then the battery could be topped up to 100% just an hour or two before your normal departure time.

Kind of like how my iphone 'learns' and manages my charge cycle to only top up over 80% in the early hours before I usually leave for work. Should help battery longevity.

For those of us who prefer to keep the battery at <80% until we decide to ride, a bluetooth/wifi connected app could allow you to remotely start it for a quick top up when the weekend urge strikes and get a reminder when it's at say 90 or 100% so you can start to get geared up. It could also give you stats and warnings like high temperature, balance and maintenance status, expected lifespan (estimated # of charge cycles remaining, etc.). For a guy like me who has multiple batteries and tries to rotate them, knowing the actual cycle count is useful to distributing the use evenly across them all.

 

[theemartymac]

Actually, yeah... I am not sure if this is possible with that price point.

Unless Ravi knows how to do this himself, production cost of app is, well last time I heard minimum of $30,000 - $40,000 for simple ones and north of $500,000 for very complex ones.

I also don't care about starting in the middle of the night, you can just switch it to 1A charging rate, instead of going 5A and fast charging it right at the end.
I would like to be able to charge it overnight, as many people do with EV cars, EV motorcycles, cellphones, laptops, etc... oh yeah, and ebikes.

That's what I usually do. I remove it and slow charge at 2amp to 80% after use unless I know I'm riding the next day for sure, and then I'll top up a fresh battery right on the bike to 100% with the stock charger, and use the Luna for the 80% slow charge on the 2nd.

 

[Johnny]

@Ravi Kempaiah

Idk about the Luna charger.

If this is going to be a charger you will be bundling with your bikes then what matters is, it should work with the voltage range of the supplied batteries. If you have decided on using only 48V I don't see the point of a variable Voltage one.

It would be good if it can:

1. Give cut off options like %85, %90 at which it automatically stops charging for increasing longevity of the battery.
2. Rated current should be enough to charge your largest batteries in 4-5 hours from a completely depleted state to %100.

If someone wants more let them get Satiator.

I think around $100 should be a sweet spot.

 

[theemartymac]

And I would expect a little built-in future-proofing for an upgrade or 2nd charger at or above the $100 price point. 36v bikes are becoming rarer, and even 48v is quickly being replaced by 52v. It's also fully plausible to use a 52v battery on a 48v bike with a compliant controller, or even on a dual battery bike as they draw independently. Some retailers actually state right on their website FAQ's that you can use either voltage on the bike (But you must have a voltage-matched charger, or appropriate smart charger to recognize the battery cutoffs):

Can the 52V battery be used with a 48V bike?

As long as you are using a Juiced Bike with an LCD display the 52V battery can be used The 52V battery pack is designed to be interchangeable with that of the

support.juicedbikes.com

So as a core bundle, I would only expect the $30 fixed unit like we see now. But I also think the ability to upgrade to a better unit at time of purchase, and/or buy a second unit if you plan on having spare batteries is quite reasonable.

 

[Johnny]

Many people on EBR have more than one ebike.

And all of those bikes come with their own chargers. IMO Those people should invest in a better charger themselves. Moreover the batteries from mainstream brands will not even play with a custom charger.

On the other hand for someone who want to own only Ravi's bike, paying a couple hundred $ may not be desirable. Those couple hundred dollars can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[mclewis1]

Another Luna Advanced charger owner here. 16 months of experience with a 52v 14.5amp 21700 based battery. Like Marty has mentioned above I also normally charge at 2amps to 80%, and then if I need the full capacity I set the charger to 100% and charge just before I ride. If I'm short on time I might also bump up the amperage rate, so I've sometimes given the battery the last 10-20% at 3-5 amps. (my battery/bms is rated to charge at up to 8 amps)

The flexibility of the Luna charger is what really impresses me. Two simple and easy to understand controls and the display gives me the charging flexibility I need with the understanding of what's going on.