Cell battery technology set to jump again-driven by another industry

[Ebiker33]

California is set to ban outdoor gas powered equipment starting in 2024 to 2028, many states and municipalities may follow all across North America.
Including lawnmowers, generators, pressure washers and chainsaws it's almost all outdoor gas type equipment, known in the industry as OPE
I doubt there will be much of gas powered anything at Lowe's and Home Depot in 2025.

California regulators voted on Thursday to ban the sale of new gas-powered leaf blowers and lawn mowers starting in 2024 and portable generators by 2028, the latest step in the state’s aggressive effort to reduce harmful pollutants and transition toward a carbon-free economy.

The new regulations by the California Air Resources Board require all newly sold small-motor equipment primarily used for landscaping to be zero-emission by the target dates, with some exceptions.

The agency’s decision is based in part on the belief that battery technology will improve and zero-emission gear will become more widely available before the requirements kick in — though there will be an annual review to determine whether they are on target and whether regulation needs to be altered or delayed.

The restriction applies to homeowners and commercial landscapers alike, and the ban also includes gas-powered weed trimmers, chainsaws and power washers. The regulation does not ban existing gas-powered equipment, however, which can continue to be used.

Combined, these small gas-powered engines create as much smog-causing pollution in California as light-duty passenger cars. There are approximately 15.4 million small off-road engines in California and they produce about 141 tons of smog-forming emissions per day, according to the agency.

The technology for better longer batteries has been moving along driven by consumer demand.
Now government laws tied together with commercial capital will be propelling the industry faster than ever, and of coarse any new battery technology that develops will filter over to the Ebike side sooner or later.

 

[AHicks]

A battery powered generator? Can't wait to see that technology. That should do REAL well...

Maybe a solar powered lift pump to fill a reservoir, that would in turn provide enough water pressure to spin a turbine, that would spin a generator? That sounds efficient, something I'd like to have around the next time a storm blows through and the power goes down....

Rube Goldberg, where are you when we need you?

Sure. Lots of thought behind any decision to eliminate gas generators.....

 

[Code54]

Yep, this will be interesting. Cant wait to see the bank of batterys I will need to replace my 22K generator I have run for over a week straight (several times) when the power goes down at our rural house in the dead of winter. Big ideas but we are FAR away from reality. It seems so many dont understand that not everyone lives in a city and can use a cute little 10" chain saw to play tree trimmer, or a little battery push mower to cut their grass. Can't wait to go the local Stihl power Eqpt dealer "Hi, I need a new electric chain saw, what do you have with a 28" bar and, say, 30 batteries, is there a package deal???"

 

[Ebiker33]

A battery powered generator? Can't wait to see that technology. That should do REAL well...

Maybe a solar powered lift pump to fill a reservoir, that would in turn provide enough water pressure to spin a turbine, that would spin a generator? That sounds efficient, something I'd like to have around the next time a storm blows through and the power goes down....

Rube Goldberg, where are you when we need you?

Sure. Lots of thought behind any decision to eliminate gas generators.....

I agree with you but Milwaukee has already come out with a small version of it.

Where I have problem with this thought process is California has been infamous for rolling brown outs where large segments of the populations lose power.
So when building a new home right beside the air conditioner is a generator as well, and it could run on propane, natural gas or standard gas.
Any emergency situation where power goes down is an issue.
Another example a tree falls on power lines, you need a chainsaw to cut it off, but if you run out your charge before the job is over where is your next charge up coming from?
Gas still has a place in emergency situations, but as for Joe home owner with all his gas OPE for doing his property upkeep on the weekend, yes he can go electric/cordless.

 

[Code54]

Gas still has a place in emergency situations, but as for Joe home owner with all his gas OPE for doing his property upkeep on the weekend, yes he can go electric/cordless.

I have to disagree there. I am a homeowner and this Pic below - saw had a 20" bar) was the last tree that came down and I had to cut it up. I have yet to see an electric chainsaw that would have "cut it" (no pun intended, well, ok, may it was).
I think that most city or subdivision people don't really grasp what happens outside the city on a normal basis. Once or twice a year I come home to a tree down over the road and have to cut it out to get home. Sure in some cases I can call the state and wait for 6-24 hrs for them to get out and cut it, or do what everyone here does, grab the saw and take care of the problem. Same with electric "leaf blowers" - the electric are a joke. I have a nice Dewalt one, it works great to dust the porch off, and clean out the shop. Now start into the yard blowing a few acres of leaves with piles 4 feet high and 50-60' long and it is a total joke. My big Stihl backpack struggles and I often get out the big 50hp tractor with a golf course blower on the 3pt hitch to get them moved.
As I said, not everyone lives the same way so saying gas has to go because electric is just as good, is far from true for everyone. If someone likes electric stuff and it works for them, great, but this no more gas eqpt by 20XX law stuff needs to go.

 

[DaveMatthews]

My gas lawn mower wouldn't start a couple of weeks ago. Sick of it.
So... I bought a 40v Ryobi battery powered 20" mower.
My lawn is not huge, but the Ryobi will do it twice/maybe 3 times on one charge.
Much quieter, less mess. Not sorry I switched.

 

[AHicks]

My gas lawn mower wouldn't start a couple of weeks ago. Sick of it.
So... I bought a 40v Ryobi battery powered 20" mower.
My lawn is not huge, but the Ryobi will do it twice/maybe 3 times on one charge.
Much quieter, less mess. Not sorry I switched.

That sounds like a city lawn. Not knocking it at all. Something like that fun to keep in near perfect condition, even edged! With a move out into the 'burbs though, where you are faced with an acre of foot tall grass because you were busy last week, and a diesel powered 60" rider starts looking pretty practical....

 

[DaveMatthews]

That sounds like a city lawn. Not knocking it at all. Something like that fun to keep in near perfect condition, even edged! With a move out into the 'burbs though, where you are faced with an acre of foot tall grass because you were busy last week, and a diesel powered 60" rider starts looking pretty practical....

Absolutely!
My lot is in a burb.
I'd be riding if I lived on a large lot.

 

[Surly]

 

[Mulezen]

Can't wait to go the local Stihl power Eqpt dealer "Hi, I need a new electric chain saw, what do you have with a 28" bar and, say, 30 batteries, is there a package deal???"

I went to my long-time local Stilh dealer who sold me both an electric chainsaw and pole saw. Many advantages to using these…I might have my big Stilh in the tractor bucket as insurance but its the powerful small electric that I mostly use working the fence line. But maybe I’m just getting older and weaker, and no longer in love with grease, oil, and noise.

 

[Ebiker33]

Here are some example of what's coming already available in Australia.

Makita 40V Chainsaw
Comments: These 40V series pack a punch, and they will have a 8amp/hr battery to go the distance if needed, 12" bar is short, but an 18" is coming out soon.
Milwaukee already powers it's 16" bar with just a HC 18V

And there is this guy double 40V for 80V power

The tech is growing fast, virtually all the big three R&D is going into cordless right now, gas and corded are on the way out.

 

[kmccune]

A battery powered generator? Can't wait to see that technology. That should do REAL well...

Maybe a solar powered lift pump to fill a reservoir, that would in turn provide enough water pressure to spin a turbine, that would spin a generator? That sounds efficient, something I'd like to have around the next time a storm blows through and the power goes down....

Rube Goldberg, where are you when we need you?

Sure. Lots of thought behind any decision to eliminate gas generators.....

They already exist-Power banks, just like gas you have to refuel, plus you do not have to worry about monoxide,I suppose you are talking about regional blackouts.There are solar-powered deep well pumps that do a fine job. There was one thing that was always on my mind, a micro pumped storage the upper reservoir could be a "koi pond" I am very seriously considering converting all my small gas powered things to electric power.It would do well to have a small backup system in most homes, Steven Harris went into quite a lot of detail about this subject( doesn't have to cost a mint)
One needs to power- prioritize, first thing you want is lights(easy), second refrigeration or pressurized water, the list goes on, simply put the main thing after lights that one needs is usually heat which does not have to come from electricity( keep a spare cylinder of propane around and you can eat hot meals for a good many days, there are a few solar powered deep freezes around( check out what the Amish in PA do) lastly the new EVs( more than one model can be used as a power bank) If the grid is down for more than a week,liquid hydrocarbons will soon be in short supply. One should put their efforts into creating a small backup system and lobbying for "grid hardening".
P.S If you invest in a total house backup generation system, get one that runs on LP or natural gas( few fuel storage issues) the only two things I think that sound worse than ICE powered back up generator are ATVs and string trimmers( Harleys and loud muscle cars are in the mix as well) JMT

 

[AHicks]

They already exist-Power banks, just like gas you have to refuel, plus you do not have to worry about monoxide,I suppose you are talking about regional blackouts.There are solar-powered deep well pumps that do a fine job. There was one thing that was always on my mind, a micro pumped storage the upper reservoir could be a "koi pond" I am very seriously considering converting all my small gas powered things to electric power.It would do well to have a small backup system in most homes, Steven Harris went into quite a lot of detail about this subject( doesn't have to cost a mint)
One needs to power- prioritize, first thing you want is lights(easy), second refrigeration or pressurized water, the list goes on, simply put the main thing after lights that one needs is usually heat which does not have to come from electricity( keep a spare cylinder of propane around and you can eat hot meals for a good many days, there are a few solar powered deep freezes around( check out what the Amish in PA do) lastly the new EVs( more than one model can be used as a power bank) If the grid is down for more than a week,liquid hydrocarbons will soon be in short supply. One should put their efforts into creating a small backup system and lobbying for "grid hardening".
P.S If you invest in a total house backup generation system, get one that runs on LP or natural gas( few fuel storage issues) the only two things I think that sound worse than ICE powered back up generator are ATVs and string trimmers( Harleys and loud muscle cars are in the mix as well) JMT

Thinking more along the lines of practical. Compare the price of a "power bank" to a small gen set big enough to supply lights and heat in the winter time. Now justify those prices, keeping in mind you may go years between uses. Maybe just me, but I find one of them MUCH easier to justify........

 

[indianajo]

California is set to ban outdoor gas powered equipment starting in 2024 to 2028, many states and municipalities may follow all across North America.

Certainly let California kill some of the last manufacturing jobs left in USA. Briggs & stratton. Those workers need to be making coffee flipping burgers, growing & selling marijuana.
I need a 120 vac electric chainsaw: they are ALL made in the country that jailed 800000 people that look like 6 criminals. Plus hid the covid19 epidemic for 2 months and held a city banquet in Wuhan the 3rd week to spread it around.
The tarriff the previous President set against imports from that country caused exactly zero manufacturing jobs to be started in this country. Instead jobs moved to Viet Nam etc.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

So indianajo, your objection is to the (so-called) free market capitalist system then. There is no reason why American manufacturers cannot retool to produce electrically powered machines, is there? A machinist can machine other things than what s/he has been machining all this time, no? It does require the will and determination to do so. It does require some investment and commitment to creating/keeping jobs in country. It also requires the consumer to choose domestically produced goods even if they cost more because the workers are earning a living wage here. Unfortunately, too many consumers will go for the lowest price, be it from Malwart or from cheap Chinese goods on Amazon.

 

[chunk]

Anytime I can use an electric (battery powered) tool I do, over corded electric or gasoline powered. Although not economically feasible yet, I can see a day in the not so distance future that a large battery bank recharged by grid power and renewable's is coming. It's just progress, I imagine the horse and buggy manufactures had a lot to say about that new fangled ICE horseless carriage contraption. For the time being though, I'll hang on to my Yamaha 6.5 KW and 2.5 KW Generac. Summer's almost here and I can count on Edison to cut the power at least a few times this season.

 

[indianajo]

So indianajo, your objection is to the (so-called) free market capitalist system then. There is no reason why American manufacturers cannot retool to produce electrically powered machines, is there?

The US leaves the employer to pay for medical care. Any business with significant investment could be unionized, as the car plants are, with massive benefits. Multi-million dollar plants can't sit idle while the employees strike. Jobs have to be at low investment businesses like stores & restaurants, marijuana growers in California, leader of our nation. Medical care insurance is hitting >$20000 anually per employee, or higher if the employer manages so badly as to have employees over age 30. One reason most jobs even in warehousing & retail (auto supply customer service) require the employee to stand up all the time, to get rid of those not 100% healthy (or over 30).
All the countries where manufactured goods come from either provide no medical care at all, (Mexico, China, Viet Nam, Thailand) or have government mandated medical care (Taiwan, Japan, Germany).Look up the details of the settlement the workers got in China when the screen etching process blew up in their face and blinded a half dozen.
If a US resident buys anything mail order or internet, he is not allowed to know where it was made until he opens the box. Most technical items are not stocked in stores. Even appliances now, friends tell me you have to pay for it first and maybe have it delivered in 6 months. 90% of the things I need these days, except food, are only sourced from China. China invented the 3 phase AC electric bike(as far as I can tell), and at least the kits I bought (used motors lately) allow me to avoid importing oil at $200 a barrel. Gas+diesel went up $.25 a gal twice this weekend.
Another complaint, patented batteries on portable equipement. There aren't any mowers or saw or weedeaters that have generic batteries as my ebike does. I have a whole collection of useless Ryobi power tools because they won't sell that kind of battery anymore. I'm supposed to buy a whole new suite of Ryobi tools; the old ones are more than 10 years old and should be hauled to the dump. Same as ****ing cars, inevitable check engine disease at 11 years. Even with 20000 miles on it, check engine disease due to wire harness+contact corrosion. I don't buy cars anymore for my personal use. However much my knees hurt.

 

[Mulezen]

Another way the new batteries will affect tools, bikes, car etc.

The Next Challenge for Solid-State Batteries? Making Lots of Them

Startups like Solid Power are beginning to roll out solid-state batteries that meet the needs of EVs. But hurdles remain for manufacturing them at scale.

www.wired.com

 

[JES2020]

I have to disagree there. I am a homeowner and this Pic below - saw had a 20" bar) was the last tree that came down and I had to cut it up. I have yet to see an electric chainsaw that would have "cut it" (no pun intended, well, ok, may it was).
I think that most city or subdivision people don't really grasp what happens outside the city on a normal basis. Once or twice a year I come home to a tree down over the road and have to cut it out to get home. Sure in some cases I can call the state and wait for 6-24 hrs for them to get out and cut it, or do what everyone here does, grab the saw and take care of the problem. Same with electric "leaf blowers" - the electric are a joke. I have a nice Dewalt one, it works great to dust the porch off, and clean out the shop. Now start into the yard blowing a few acres of leaves with piles 4 feet high and 50-60' long and it is a total joke. My big Stihl backpack struggles and I often get out the big 50hp tractor with a golf course blower on the 3pt hitch to get them moved.
As I said, not everyone lives the same way so saying gas has to go because electric is just as good, is far from true for everyone. If someone likes electric stuff and it works for them, great, but this no more gas eqpt by 20XX law stuff needs to go.

The same old NIMBY complaint.

 

[JES2020]

California is set to ban outdoor gas powered equipment starting in 2024 to 2028, many states and municipalities may follow all across North America.
Including lawnmowers, generators, pressure washers and chainsaws it's almost all outdoor gas type equipment, known in the industry as OPE
I doubt there will be much of gas powered anything at Lowe's and Home Depot in 2025.


The technology for better longer batteries has been moving along driven by consumer demand.
Now government laws tied together with commercial capital will be propelling the industry faster than ever, and of coarse any new battery technology that develops will filter over to the Ebike side sooner or later.

It's inevitable. Either we stop polluting the world, or we die.