Carbon X vs. Dahon Unio E20

[BG213]

Hello all. I have narrowed down the search for my first ebike down to two candidates (for now at least): the Carbo X with 350w motor vs. Dahon Unio E20. I managed to test ride the Carbo and liked it quite a lot, but then later learned you can't add many accessories to it due to its carbon fiber frame by securely screwing them into the frame (though you could strap them on, this makes me less confident). From this I began looking around for an alternative and discovered the Dahon. No local Dahon dealer has the Unio in stock but the nearest one to me has offered to order one and let me try before committing to buy.

I should say here the purpose for my ebike is urban and suburban transportation where there are fair number of real hills (so hill climbing is a major consideration in the decision). I am comfortable shifting gears and am not really looking for an e-scooter type bike with throttle. Absolute speed is not a requirement. The "e" is more to help climb hills and lessen the fatigue of riding a peddle bike. It will be integrated into local transit systems (bus/train) and must be carried up and stairs each day so must be a lightweight folder.

I will list below the advantages and disadvantages of both as I see it. Let me know what insights and observations you all have to help me decide.

Carbo, pros:

• Was fun to ride, Dahon I don't know yet.
• 350w hub motor vs. 200w mid drive.
• Marginally lighter weight (I have heard multiple things about this, but suffice the say the Dahon is at best 2-3lbs/1-1.5kg heavier, if that).
• Bafang motor vs. I don't know what is on the Dahon. If the motor ever needs to be repaired or replaced seems to me the Bafang has more standing behind it.
• Other parts like brakes, shifters etc. are name-brand vs. the Dahon's seemingly proprietary parts (?).
• 6.7a, 10a and even a 4.4a supposedly "airplane friendly" battery options all available direct from Carbo's website. The airplane battery would be nice for traveling with the Carbo, however the 350w motor couldn't be taken to Europe AFAIK. The Dahon has a 8.7a battery that nowhere on the Dahon website can I find an extra/replacement unit (battery has only so many charge cycles in it after all!). Maybe these seat-post batteries are a more-or-less universal part I could buy one from Carbo and swap it into the Dahon, but who knows?
• Carbo lists the battery as using Samsung 18650 cells, Dahon is once again radio silent on specifics.

Dahon pros:

• Alloy frame allows better attachment of accessories.
• Alloy frame theoretically more resilient to being knocked around (carbon fiber can develop cracks, even hard to spot or internal ones, which can prove dangerous and require a write-off of the entire frame).
• Dahon is a more established name.
• Much wider dealer and service network behind Dahon. My nearest Dahon dealer is half an hour away. The nearest Carbo dealer, which I assume I would need to get it serviced, is three hours away!
• Mid drive is more bike-like and less intimidating to non-ebike bike mechanics, increasing servicing options even further (not that there is a lack of mechanics listed by Dahon in my area).
• The 200w can be taken on a trip to Europe vs. the Carbo's 350 hub drive motor, albeit the 8.7a battery cannot fly (see battery discussion above).
• The Dahon is $500 less if you put the 350w motor, rack and fenders on the Carbo. Price is an issue for me.
• Dahon has a lower horizontal frame bar, making it more of a "step through" to the Carbo's "step over" and thus a bit easier as a commuter bike.

FWIW the guy in the below review thinks the Dahon climbs as well as 350w hub motor bikes he's ridden (18:00):

And before anyone asks, no, I cannot afford to buy both and compare.

 

[Dewey]

The Dahon Unio looks good. At 35lb it’s featherweight for a 20” wheel size folding ebike. The seatpost battery is also used on Qualisports brand folding ebikes so it would be worth asking Dahon what their seatpost diameter is so you can check if it’s the same 56mm diameter as the Qualisports 36v packs. The main issue with seatpost batteries is security, however recently Qualisports have begun selling a locking seatpost collar to keep the battery secure on the bike, would be worth checking if this might also work on the Dahon. Qualisports 20” bikes are mostly over 50lb so the Dahon Unio really is lightweight by comparison. I enjoyed the Dahon folding pedal bike I rented a few years ago visiting Pensacola, the folding action was intuitive and there were thoughtful touches like magnets to keep the bike together when folded. Electric Bike Action magazine reviewed the Unio and mentioned the motor is from Tongsheng, they are a well known brand in the DIY community where the TSDZ2 motor is a popular choice because unlike Bafang BBS motors Tongsheng fit a torque PAS sensor, and that appears to be the case here on the Unio. Plus if you’re hill climbing I’d rather have the gears of the Dahon vs the single speed of the Carbo X.

 

[BG213]

Thanks for the response! Having slept on it overnight since posting this and reading what you wrote I am 99% sure of the Dahon now. FWIW the Carbo seatpost is IIRC 34mm, so who knows what Dahon uses. I will call their CS phone number tomorrow and ask. My answer to the battery security issue would be to simply remove it and carry it with me when not with the bike (in a backpack for instance). Good to know the motor is from a good brand.

 

[Dewey]

You may wish to also ask Dahon which model # of motor is fitted to their bike. The official motor manufacturer website is http://www.tsbicycle.net/. You will be relying on Dahon to supply parts during the warranty period, but it helps to know for the future. Also ask if the Unio’s battery is interchangeable with Qualisports 36v battery packs?

 

[TrevorB]

If buying for airtravel do some research on what batteries airlines will let you carry. Ask airline as they decide if you fly with your battery not bike manufacturer. Best get answer in writing to show check in at airport.

Europe is both power (250w) and speed limited (25kmh). While bike may not be legal in europe not sure if customs would care or even know to check. Others on forum may have some experience here.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You can carry only a 160 Wh battery with an airplane.

 

[antboy]

Thanks for the response! Having slept on it overnight since posting this and reading what you wrote I am 99% sure of the Dahon now. FWIW the Carbo seatpost is IIRC 34mm, so who knows what Dahon uses. I will call their CS phone number tomorrow and ask. My answer to the battery security issue would be to simply remove it and carry it with me when not with the bike (in a backpack for instance). Good to know the motor is from a good brand.

On the specs page Dahon lists the following:
Seatpost DAHON Custom 6061 Aluminum,57 mm x 560 mm

If the dealer can get the Dahon, he might be able to find out if they're using name brand cells.

The "travel to Europe" issue is a whole other thing. Personally I would say "forget about it"

Unless you're moving to Europe or doing a 2+ month long vacation I'd say scrap that whole idea and just rent an e-bike. It'll be cheaper, and less hassle, than dealing with shipping the bike separately (or taking the bike on the plane, but shipping the battery separately).

For example, you can rent a Zoomo bike in multiple countries on a weekly basis, with no long term commitment...

Zoomo | World-Class E-Bikes: Rent, Buy and Aftersales Service

Check our reliable electric bikes and enjoy flexible lease plans in Australia, US, UK, France and more soon!

www.ridezoomo.com

They're about the equivalent of US $60/week (as long as you get the $10/w insurance, unless you want to live on the edge and be on the hook for the deposit), so a month long Euro vacation would be cheaper than shipping, and less headache.

I can't vouch for the company, beyond that for the past 18 months or so, they've become a very popular brand for bike food couriers here in Toronto, and I've even seen Zoomo branded "battery cozies' to keep them warm in the winter, so the company seems to know something?

Zoomo is international, but it wouldn't be difficult to look up local rental outfit in destination countries, as well.

 

[harryS]

You found a Carbo store? Wow. I thought they were order online only, Nice bike, but pretty expensive for a hub motor and has been reputed to have long delivery times.
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I'm a 20" folder enthusiast, having owned four rear motor folders last summer, but back down to three now. I really like that Dahon Unio. I'm sure they're using quality cells. Qualisports uses Samsung.
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The 20" tires give a mechanical advantage for either hub motors or mid drives. Pulling wheelies like the Dahon video is more a matter of rider skill, not motor power. . As it is, my 20" rear drive has often surprised me on hills an slight upgrades, when my weight gets over the rear wheel, making it possible for the combined motor/pedal power to lift the front wheel.





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