Camping a felony? Tennessee Law

Mr. Coffee

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A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Tennessee is in the midst of passing new state laws, which while intended to help remove homeless people, seem to make it difficult to impossible for people who just want to go camping:


This bill makes it a felony to camp on any public property "unless otherwise indicated". Whatever the heck that means. From my read of this you could be a felon (with up to six years of imprisonment) if you park your RV safely off the highway for the night and sleep there. Or if you are bicycle touring and stealth camp. Or hiking on the Appalachian Trail. This is ridiculous and honestly bizarre.

So I'd recommend giving Tennessee a miss until they sort this stuff out. There are plenty of other states that don't make it a crime to go camping.

Also: apparently Tennessee has a two hour limit at all rest areas, which is the shortest limit in the country.
 
Tennessee is in the midst of passing new state laws, which while intended to help remove homeless people, seem to make it difficult to impossible for people who just want to go camping:


This bill makes it a felony to camp on any public property "unless otherwise indicated". Whatever the heck that means. From my read of this you could be a felon (with up to six years of imprisonment) if you park your RV safely off the highway for the night and sleep there. Or if you are bicycle touring and stealth camp. Or hiking on the Appalachian Trail. This is ridiculous and honestly bizarre.

So I'd recommend giving Tennessee a miss until they sort this stuff out. There are plenty of other states that don't make it a crime to go camping.

Also: apparently Tennessee has a two hour limit at all rest areas, which is the shortest limit in the country.
It's one of those states where you just keep driving and don't stop... If they're doing something this crazy I'm sure there are other insane laws already passed.
 
I'm probably about to cause this thread to be deleted. I'm sorry. I don't see this as explainable in any other terms than the right wing politicization of so many state legislatures. As a Tennessean this is, of course, embarrassing, This specific legislation may be unique to Tennessee but it's not particularly unusual across the country in a more general way. Look at Florida's "don't say gay" and book-banning activities. Look at Texas busing immigrants to Washington, DC. Look at all of the new laws around the country that attempt to make it harder for minorities and and other marginalized people to vote. Look at all of the idiots who perpetrate these laws and other stunts who, not coincidentally, also still think the 2020 election was rigged.

Don't be surprised at this and don't criticize Tennessee too much without looking at your own state legislatures and governors. We don't have the only state legislators doing to others as they can't imagine anyone would ever dare to do to them or anyone they know.

That said, as someone familiar for decades with the Tennessee legislature, I am not at all surprised that the genius members think the solution to homelessness is criminalizing it.

TT
 
Just one more way to drive division into the American citizenry. Never in my lifetime did I imagine a division like before the Civil War would ever happen again. But here we are. Laws and health decision have to be run through the court system to be implemented or denied. First lobbyists write the laws for the legislative branch and now the Judicial branch has to debate and decide a lawsuit by one political party has merit and decides if the law can stand. It's a disgrace!!!!
 
Ur right about culture warriors in these other states enacting equally dubious provisions. Witness my (VA) state’s new culture warrior as Governor who has instituted a tip line to complain about teachers. Tennessee has many fine qualities aside from reactionary politics. Nashville is my first thought
 
I think people over simplify things are calling them “right” and “left” just so they can attack people who oppose them. My political beliefs are based on my thoughts about each subject rather than a political direction. I think most people are brainwashed when it comes to politics anyway
 
This bill makes it a felony to camp on any public property "unless otherwise indicated". Whatever the heck that means
Haven't read the rule, but basically probably means "you can't unless it says you can".

At the risk of sounding like a douchbag, I really don't want people sleeping in my city parks. As a frequent van boondocker, it is my responsibility to know where I can and were I shouldn't.
 
Don't be surprised at this and don't criticize Tennessee too much without looking at your own state legislatures and governors. We don't have the only state legislators doing to others as they can't imagine anyone would ever dare to do to them or anyone they know.
Yeah, here in Washington it is illegal to sleep in an outhouse without the owner's permission.

More entertainingly: Highway 99 in Washington parallels I-5. It is designated as a US highway for most of its length, but certain sections are a state highway. In the 1930's for some reason there were attempts to designate that highway the "Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway" with dubious justifications. My own thought is if you want to name your highways after traitors you ought to go all in and name other highways after Benedict Arnold and Julius Rosenberg as well.

Anyway, there was an attempt to fix the nomenclature in 2002 that passed the state house of representatives but was deferred in the state senate. The sponsors of the bill received death threats (apparently from passionate Civil War buffs). At less insane time in 2016 the nomenclature was fixed and the highway is now the William P. Stewart memorial highway. William P. Stewart was an african-american civil war veteran and early settler in Snohomish, Washington.

Honestly one great thing about democracy is that we get all of these entertaining stories about the inanities and petty knaveries of our elected representatives.
 
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the political divisiveness which is rampant in the country today is dismaying and a huge problem. I’m sure it’s not the exclusive province of the right or the left, but when i become aware of a state or city enacting some of these hurtful and bigoted laws, i absolutely vote with my feet and dollars. it’s wierd how much energy some people put into preventing other people from doing things (often in the privacy of their own home!) that have nothing to do with them.
 
Sounds very draconian, but I feel sorry for everyone trying to fix the homeless/vagrant/druggie/mentally ill problem that plagues the modern US. I understand where those TN legislators may be coming from in passing such an ordinance, but in Washington State it would be shot down for all the unenforceabilites (a new word I think I just invented) and opportunities for abuse which it would give rise to.

But homeless/vagrant/druggie/mentally ill people are a serious problem. Any ideas on how to fix it?
 


Most homeless are from out of State

this is an often repeated trope by people in most big cities or states with temperate climates. it usually isn’t true.

hawaii’s housing affordability index is lower than california, florida, texas, etc, with low wages and high housing costs. everyone wants to think their homeless problems are imported, but only a minority are typically.

for example, approx 20% in this case in hawaii:

According to the Institute for Human Services, more than 20% of residents in its men's shelter recently relocated to Oahu

hardly “most,” unless you consider the fact that 46% of ALL hawaiians are from out of state.
 
But homeless/vagrant/druggie/mentally ill people are a serious problem. Any ideas on how to fix it?

It sure would be easy to fix (well, more precisely easier to fix) with infinite money. I think the kicker is that the dollar cost to fix it is going to be uncomfortably large and a lot of people are going to scream bloody murder about it.

Beyond that, I'd suggest a triage system. Some of the interventions are pretty straightforward, some aren't. Some will require legal changes.

If a homeless person still has a job, and has lost their housing because of some recent drama, intervene early and provide temporary housing to get them on their feet again and keep them working. If a working person loses their housing for some reason, they are at high risk for losing their job. Intervening before more damage is done is money well spent.

In the same vein, identify people who are employable if they were not homeless, and hook them up with services to get a permanent address and a phone number so they can get a job. Again, this is expensive but less expensive than letting that person's situation worsen and require more expensive interventions down the road.

Now it gets more complicated and you'd likely need legal changes far beyond my expertise. It would help if there were laws in place that allowed authorities (not necessarily police) to temporarily detain homeless people for mental health and substance abuse screenings. Ideally during that process they would be relocated as well (more on that below).

Provide camps where we relocate still-homeless people to. Ideally those camps would be far from population centers and indeed any population at all (if you inspect a map you can find quite a few good candidates). Those who need mental health care, substance abuse care, or regular health services would be offered them. Everyone there would be under shelter, adequately fed, and adequate provisions for hygiene and sanitation would be provided. People who wanted to work would be offered jobs. Before I make this sound too much like paradise I'm basically describing a refugee camp. I'd expect spartan conditions. At the same time everyone brought there would be free to leave under their own power after say 48 hours -- long enough to get some square meals, a shower, medical checks, and have their clothes washed.

As a last-ditch measure, we need to update our rules on institutionalizing the mentally ill. A lot of the reason we have this huge, festering homeless problem is that we made it from very difficult to impossible to institutionalize homeless people in the 1970s. We closed our mental hospitals for the most part. But we didn't fund the network of outpatient services we'd need to substitute for those mental hospitals. We need to bring back institutionalization in some form.

So if people don't want to stay in the camps, say after the third time they've been detained they can be involuntarily committed at a mental institution.

Note that this will require a deep pocketbook and some strong stomachs. It is likely that conditions both in the camp and institutions would be appalling by our standards. But we need to be realistic and remember that "living" under a pile of blue tarps in a wal-mart tent and pooping in the bushes in Roanoke Park is pretty appalling too.

Another axis of this problem to consider: we need a PR campaign to discourage people from giving money directly to homeless people on the street and to discourage homeless people from begging. In India begging is basically industrialized, and they will blind or maim children so they are more profitable beggars. So we need to encourage people to help homeless people not by directly giving them money, but rather by donating to well-ran organizations that help them. We might consider a voucher system where you can buy a coupon book and give the coupons to homeless people. That keeps the money from being funneled up the chain to some small-time crime lord or spent on drugs or alcohol.
 
Homelessness is of course a complex issue with multiple layers. Here I’m thinking of the working poor often living in their car to be near their employment. Some cities have priced even the middle class out. I’m sure there are other wrinkles requiring their own remedy
 
But homeless/vagrant/druggie/mentally ill people are a serious problem. Any ideas on how to fix it?
Bus them to Tennessee ?? Obvious Some of the issues mentioned are not understood.. Texas is being inundated with Illegal's Hundreds of thousands... They bused them out To alleviate the costs associated with an open border policy. Think maybe the ones that dont see the problem should open there homes to this problem... Might see things in a new light. I keep harping my kids that choices have consequences...Open borders allow Riff Raff in... Whats wrong with doing it legally and legitimately? Like the ones before them? IF they Follow the rules we have and are able to become citizens then its the way it was meant to be.. As for the Don't Say Gay Bill ? there is no such bill.. What is wrong with a parent having control over there kids education and sexual discussion? Isnt that the way it should be? I know I wouldnt want anyone else talking to my kids about sex or sexual orientation without my consent... This used to be common sense..
 
But homeless/vagrant/druggie/mentally ill people are a serious problem. Any ideas on how to fix it?
Bring back the institutions/group homes/Itinerant housing that cared for the mentally ill and treat veterans with PTSD.
Sadly group homes that took over from the closed state mental institutions are closing due to a lack of workers and funding. Society gets the rabble it pays for?
 
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