Brakes ?? what stopping Me? lol pretty lame I know But?
- Thread starter Granite
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
it could be a fair amount. I had one level below deore 2 pistion on our tandem and it sucked. chained to 4 piston deore and there was a large difference. but we do long steep decents and short really steep descents.
Jeremy McCreary
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Another data point for you: I weigh 195 lb and ride a 70 lb ebike (including battery and accessories) with 2-piston calipers,180 mm rotors, and hybrid tires front and rear. Ride non-technical offroad maybe 10% of the time. Lots of steep hills.
My bike's never once felt underbraked, but you have 25% more total weight to bring to a stop. Can't say how much you'll increase your margin of safety with the 4-piston calipers. But it's easy for others to encourage you to spend more money.
My bike's never once felt underbraked, but you have 25% more total weight to bring to a stop. Can't say how much you'll increase your margin of safety with the 4-piston calipers. But it's easy for others to encourage you to spend more money.
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
And another data point:
I ride 2 piston Shimano MT400 brakes and they're just fine.
My wife rides 4 piston Shimano BR-8120 (Deore XT) and they brake well, needing slightly less level pressure.
The Deore's also have finned brake pads, which is supposed to help cooling.
I'm about 190lbs, bike is about 65lbs. Bafang Ultra motor powered, so we go fast when we want.
Do you ride off-road? Do you ride long downhills? Those are situations where better brakes reveal themselves.
I ride 2 piston Shimano MT400 brakes and they're just fine.
My wife rides 4 piston Shimano BR-8120 (Deore XT) and they brake well, needing slightly less level pressure.
The Deore's also have finned brake pads, which is supposed to help cooling.
I'm about 190lbs, bike is about 65lbs. Bafang Ultra motor powered, so we go fast when we want.
Do you ride off-road? Do you ride long downhills? Those are situations where better brakes reveal themselves.
DaveMatthews
Well-Known Member
My bike has Tektro 203mm 4 piston front and rear and I really appreciate the stopping power and better heat dissipation.
I'm down to about 215lbs on a 53lb emtb.
I'm down to about 215lbs on a 53lb emtb.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
we did about 5 miles of decent on our tandem on a gravely road from 5 to 9% grade. had to use the back brake more to keep the front from sliding and when we went on a ride the next day the back was fairly mushy. I had to bleed it got a lot of dark fluid out. even with 203 rotors its way to overheat the setup.
How hard is it to swap out a new braking system? can you go from a 180 shimano to another brand that’s 203 mm and 4piston?are there bolt on replacements? I know some brands allow an option to upgrade when you order I am leaning towards th cryusher nitro right now mainly because the front fork has more travel which in my experience is important it’s also a double clamp style with longer tubes
steve mercier
Well-Known Member
You probably can go from a Shimano Deore xt 180 to 203 with an adaptor. I have done that on one bike and it was worth it. I have another bike that came with Magura Mt 4 203s. Both are good systems but I prefer the Magura brakes. I also bought a used bike with Tektro 180 brakes and they are better than I expected but for heavy loads and long descents I would recommend the 203s. Otherwise the main difference to me is the feel. All 3 of my bikes are 2 piston and I have no experience with 4 piston setups.
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
you have to ge the right adapter for it. but not all forks can handle larger rotors and they might not be able to take the extra torque.
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
Number of pistons on the caliper is only a small part of the total braking force equation. For instance, the most powerful brakes in my collection are the Formula Ones on my mtb, which are two piston brakes. They are just two giant pistons, designed for downhill racing. I have 4 piston Avid Codes on my emtb and they are pretty close but the Ones beat them.
Having run a huge variety of brakes over the last twenty years, I'd say that if you want more braking force, the best bang for your buck (by far) is to increase rotor size. New rotors and caliper adapters are relatively inexpensive and will increase braking force and fade resistance. You do need to confirm that your fork can handle them. I would hope that an 80lb bike comes with a strong fork.
After that its a higher bite brake pad. Stock pads often try and find a sweet spot between cost effectiveness, longevity and braking force. Sometimes an aftermarket pad can increase braking force.
Having run a huge variety of brakes over the last twenty years, I'd say that if you want more braking force, the best bang for your buck (by far) is to increase rotor size. New rotors and caliper adapters are relatively inexpensive and will increase braking force and fade resistance. You do need to confirm that your fork can handle them. I would hope that an 80lb bike comes with a strong fork.
After that its a higher bite brake pad. Stock pads often try and find a sweet spot between cost effectiveness, longevity and braking force. Sometimes an aftermarket pad can increase braking force.
Jeremy McCreary
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Totally understandable that a tandem with both riders onboard would have serious brake requirements But OP has a lot less weight to stop.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
Now I went from 2 piston magura on my first bosch powered bike to 4 piston xt's because I wanted the same single finger braking I had on our tandem. yes they were stronger then the magura's but it was not a huge difference. but I could brake with one finger. I can brake our tandem fully with 1 finger. thats the part I really like.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I Use Magura MT5e brakesets pretty much exclusively. Mostly because they are strong, good for extreme use and trouble-free. You install them once, they align perfectly on their own the first time and you don't have to touch them again until its time to install new pads, which adhere and place themselves in part because the calipers are magnetized and the pads jump to their location (with positioning perfected by the bridge bolt running thru them). The pads self-center in the caliper around the rotor so you never need to re-adjust, even if you are detaching and reattaching wheels, say after a flat or if you chuck the bike into your trunk with the front wheel off.
I don't use the Magura rotors, which are 2.1mm thick, so they last longer than the usual 1.8mm or less standard issue bike brake rotors (because Maguras are meant for thicker rotors, you are not supposed to use them with thinner standard rotors). Instead I use Tektro Type 17 downhill MTB rotors, which are 2.3mm thick. They are also cheap at around $28 a pop for a 203mm. They used to be hard to find until Tektro realized they were good for ebikes. They now advertise as ebike rotors and are easy to find. A thicker rotor has more material to sink heat into, is harder to warp and seems to last almost forever even in really hard use. Here is just one of many places to buy them.
www.trekbikes.com
Be sure to get the for reals Type 17 because they look just like another Tektro model that is 1.8mm thick.
MT5 calipers are identical to MT7's, which means as soon as you wear out the Type 9 2-piece pads, you go to the Type 8 4-piece pads and gain a big torque increase. I used to chuck the Type 9's into a bag and upgrade straight to Type 8's, but at some point I looked at all the pads in a bag and decided to use them up. Now I'm almost out and I never felt like I was missing anything using them. A set of Magura branded pads are typically around $35, but Rose Bikes in Germany sells them for like $12. The ship cost to USA is around $25 so I buy 3 or 4 sets at a time and still end up saving quite a bit. You can also get lucky and some of the Type 8 AliExpress pads for $8 a wheel are decent. But some aren't so its a crap shoot.
The 5e's include a much bigger, beefier brake lever that is moped-legal for the EU, but it simply is a really excellent lever. On the one bike I have that does not have cutoffs, I just silicone taped the cutoff cables to the brake hose and forgot about them. On the one bike where I have just MT5's with the smaller Magura standard levers, they still work fine with one finger.
When installing, ALWAYS buy the Magura adapter for your calipers. Do not mix and match. Magura adapters always are a perfect fit to the rotor. People think different sized adapters are universal but they are not. For example Avid adapters assume you are using their mounting bolts, which include semi-hemispherical washers underneath, so Avid adapters are shorter to take this into account.
I don't use the Magura rotors, which are 2.1mm thick, so they last longer than the usual 1.8mm or less standard issue bike brake rotors (because Maguras are meant for thicker rotors, you are not supposed to use them with thinner standard rotors). Instead I use Tektro Type 17 downhill MTB rotors, which are 2.3mm thick. They are also cheap at around $28 a pop for a 203mm. They used to be hard to find until Tektro realized they were good for ebikes. They now advertise as ebike rotors and are easy to find. A thicker rotor has more material to sink heat into, is harder to warp and seems to last almost forever even in really hard use. Here is just one of many places to buy them.
Tektro TR-17 2.3mm 6-Bolt Disc Brake Rotor - Trek Bikes
Be sure to get the for reals Type 17 because they look just like another Tektro model that is 1.8mm thick.
MT5 calipers are identical to MT7's, which means as soon as you wear out the Type 9 2-piece pads, you go to the Type 8 4-piece pads and gain a big torque increase. I used to chuck the Type 9's into a bag and upgrade straight to Type 8's, but at some point I looked at all the pads in a bag and decided to use them up. Now I'm almost out and I never felt like I was missing anything using them. A set of Magura branded pads are typically around $35, but Rose Bikes in Germany sells them for like $12. The ship cost to USA is around $25 so I buy 3 or 4 sets at a time and still end up saving quite a bit. You can also get lucky and some of the Type 8 AliExpress pads for $8 a wheel are decent. But some aren't so its a crap shoot.
The 5e's include a much bigger, beefier brake lever that is moped-legal for the EU, but it simply is a really excellent lever. On the one bike I have that does not have cutoffs, I just silicone taped the cutoff cables to the brake hose and forgot about them. On the one bike where I have just MT5's with the smaller Magura standard levers, they still work fine with one finger.
When installing, ALWAYS buy the Magura adapter for your calipers. Do not mix and match. Magura adapters always are a perfect fit to the rotor. People think different sized adapters are universal but they are not. For example Avid adapters assume you are using their mounting bolts, which include semi-hemispherical washers underneath, so Avid adapters are shorter to take this into account.
