Bosch range boost - questions

[Kevmk81]

I'm curious about Bosch's range boost for those that have them. I've been dreaming up some long distance rides (100+ miles) and I'm wondering what the charging process is like for the whole 80% charge thing.

When you have both the powertube battery in the frame and the range boost attached, how does charging work?

- Does the single port that's on the frame charge both batteris?
- Does 1 battery (i would assume the main powertube) charge to 100% then continue to charge the boost battery?
- OR do both batteries charge at the same time? If so - how do you charge both to only 80% - since both are completely different amp hours or watt hours or whatever - I would imagine the time it takes to reach 80% would be different for both. Even at that - different 625 powertube batteries might even be different - not much different I imagine - but still charge at slightly different rates depending on overall battery health.
- Silly question and not as important as the above questions - but what's the total weight of the boost battery plus the rest of the equipment to install to the frame and whatnot (the 'holder', etc..)?

Thanks!!!

 

[BlackHand]

See This post from @William - Bosch Team that addresses most of your questions.

I don't have a Trek so I can't speak to the weight question...

 

[William - Bosch Team]

I'm curious about Bosch's range boost for those that have them. I've been dreaming up some long distance rides (100+ miles) and I'm wondering what the charging process is like for the whole 80% charge thing.

When you have both the powertube battery in the frame and the range boost attached, how does charging work?

- Does the single port that's on the frame charge both batteris?
- Does 1 battery (i would assume the main powertube) charge to 100% then continue to charge the boost battery?
- OR do both batteries charge at the same time? If so - how do you charge both to only 80% - since both are completely different amp hours or watt hours or whatever - I would imagine the time it takes to reach 80% would be different for both. Even at that - different 625 powertube batteries might even be different - not much different I imagine - but still charge at slightly different rates depending on overall battery health.
- Silly question and not as important as the above questions - but what's the total weight of the boost battery plus the rest of the equipment to install to the frame and whatnot (the 'holder', etc..)?

Thanks!!!

Hello!

This can end up being a fairly complex topic due to multiple sources of parts/pieces, so I'll start with a few definitions:

Dual-Battery: Bosch's solution for incorporating (2) Bosch eBike Systems batteries on a single Bosch-equipped eBike. This either comes from the OEM's factory with the second Bosch mount installed on the eBike, or it comes with the second Bosch mount in the box. Y-cable included. OEMs will ship with (1) or (2) batteries depending on their product plan [shipping with (1) battery takes the retail price down considerably, making the eBike more accessible. Second battery added later on, at eBike owner's discretion.]

Range Extender/ Range Boost/ Etc.: Multiple names from several different OEMs that created their own solution for incorporating (2) Bosch eBike Systems batteries on a single Bosch-equipped eBike. The landscape has change a lot in the past few years (when I started with Bosch ~3 years ago, I think the only option was Bosch Dual-Battery).



A single charger connected to the eBike will provide charge for both batteries. In the past, it charged both in alternating increments until it got to roughly 80-90%, at which points it chargered both. I just found out a few minutes ago that we have changed it, and now it charges the first battery to roughly 80-90%, then the second battery to 80-90%, and finally both batteries simultaneously the rest of the way to 100%. For more control, you could charge (1) battery "off-bike" with a second charger.

Discharge is still in much closer increments as before.

Trying to stop charging at a point short of 100% may cause a discrepancy between the (2) individual battery pack charge levels, and it may also interrupt the internal balancing of the (40) cells that each battery does. A battery pack with unbalanced cells is not a good thing. If you start charging, and need to ride somewhere before finished, it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

The Bosch System use battery packs that are very "intelligent," and regulate their own charge/discharge/balancing/etc. The best way to charge them is to let them 'do their thing'.

It is important to be mindful of the capacity at which a battery is repeatedly stored, but also consider:

- Quality of cells/ cell manufacturer
- Age of cells at initial assembly/production
- Quality/capability of battery management system
- Charge rate



Total weight of add-on components will vary depending on OEM design.

 

[Kevmk81]

Hello!

This can end up being a fairly complex topic due to multiple sources of parts/pieces, so I'll start with a few definitions:

Dual-Battery: Bosch's solution for incorporating (2) Bosch eBike Systems batteries on a single Bosch-equipped eBike. This either comes from the OEM's factory with the second Bosch mount installed on the eBike, or it comes with the second Bosch mount in the box. Y-cable included. OEMs will ship with (1) or (2) batteries depending on their product plan [shipping with (1) battery takes the retail price down considerably, making the eBike more accessible. Second battery added later on, at eBike owner's discretion.]

Range Extender/ Range Boost/ Etc.: Multiple names from several different OEMs that created their own solution for incorporating (2) Bosch eBike Systems batteries on a single Bosch-equipped eBike. The landscape has change a lot in the past few years (when I started with Bosch ~3 years ago, I think the only option was Bosch Dual-Battery).



A single charger connected to the eBike will provide charge for both batteries. In the past, it charged both in alternating increments until it got to roughly 80-90%, at which points it chargered both. I just found out a few minutes ago that we have changed it, and now it charges the first battery to roughly 80-90%, then the second battery to 80-90%, and finally both batteries simultaneously the rest of the way to 100%. For more control, you could charge (1) battery "off-bike" with a second charger.

Discharge is still in much closer increments as before.

Trying to stop charging at a point short of 100% may cause a discrepancy between the (2) individual battery pack charge levels, and it may also interrupt the internal balancing of the (40) cells that each battery does. A battery pack with unbalanced cells is not a good thing. If you start charging, and need to ride somewhere before finished, it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

The Bosch System use battery packs that are very "intelligent," and regulate their own charge/discharge/balancing/etc. The best way to charge them is to let them 'do their thing'.

It is important to be mindful of the capacity at which a battery is repeatedly stored, but also consider:

- Quality of cells/ cell manufacturer
- Age of cells at initial assembly/production
- Quality/capability of battery management system
- Charge rate



Total weight of add-on components will vary depending on OEM design.

Thanks for the info!

 

[tpete61]

I'm curious about Bosch's range boost for those that have them. I've been dreaming up some long distance rides (100+ miles) and I'm wondering what the charging process is like for the whole 80% charge thing.

When you have both the powertube battery in the frame and the range boost attached, how does charging work?

- Does the single port that's on the frame charge both batteris?
- Does 1 battery (i would assume the main powertube) charge to 100% then continue to charge the boost battery?
- OR do both batteries charge at the same time? If so - how do you charge both to only 80% - since both are completely different amp hours or watt hours or whatever - I would imagine the time it takes to reach 80% would be different for both. Even at that - different 625 powertube batteries might even be different - not much different I imagine - but still charge at slightly different rates depending on overall battery health.
- Silly question and not as important as the above questions - but what's the total weight of the boost battery plus the rest of the equipment to install to the frame and whatnot (the 'holder', etc..)?

Thanks!!!

I have the range boost and I never weighed it. It is similar in weight to the main battery. The hardware and mount probably weigh less then 2 pounds.

 

[benjamintiger12]

can anyone provide the model of the battery that works with range boost? I'm looking to get another one while the range boost is being installed

 

[William - Bosch Team]

can anyone provide the model of the battery that works with range boost? I'm looking to get another one while the range boost is being installed

The Bosch battery model may vary based on the OEM design. The shop that is installing the range boost option should be able to tell you what you need for your particular eBike model.

 

[Dallant]

Dumb question time to William from Bosch...
Is it possible to plug my spare Powertube battery I’m carrying like the picture into my Allant+7 and have them both power the bike like Range Boost option?

 

[tpete61]

I’m not the Bosch guy but I did install my own range boost kit rather then the dealer.
It’s basically a “Y” cable coming off the motor.
You would have to purchase the “Y” cable if it’s available to purchase by itself. You would then need to lengthen it and obtain the plug that mates to your extra battery.
On my range boost when it is installed it shows the total range for both batteries as one number rather then two separate numbers. If memory serves me correct it draws down the range boost battery first then the main battery.
Having two batteries works very well for me as many of my weekend rides exceed the capacity of just one battery.

 

[Dallant]

I’m not the Bosch guy but I did install my own range boost kit rather then the dealer.
It’s basically a “Y” cable coming off the motor.
You would have to purchase the “Y” cable if it’s available to purchase by itself. You would then need to lengthen it and obtain the plug that mates to your extra battery.
On my range boost when it is installed it shows the total range for both batteries as one number rather then two separate numbers. If memory serves me correct it draws down the range boost battery first then the main battery.
Having two batteries works very well for me as many of my weekend rides exceed the capacity of just one battery.

So where did you get your “Y” cable and obtain the plug that mates to your extra battery?
And isn’t there some programming of the system involved? Do you have any pictures of your setup?

 

[benjamintiger12]

Dumb question time to William from Bosch...
Is it possible to plug my spare Powertube battery I’m carrying like the picture into my Allant+7 and have them both power the bike like Range Boost option?
View attachment 68762

Totally unrelated but love the nautical navy. Should there be some kind of grommet on the part of the bike where the range boost cord goes to meet the motor? To prevent rain and degree from going down there? I just got my bike back from the bike shop with the range boost and just noticed that there is not a grommet down there and don't want to have any issues in the future.

little frustrating because they said they would put the range boost on for free since I just bought the bike but then wanted to charge me 80$ when I picked it up. Not a big deal but a little off putting. I told them I would meet them half way and pay 40$.

 

[opimax]

It should be doable . The plug is directly above the motor, I believe the cable is available, ($73 comes from memory but memory not good ) but attaching to the motor may be above the avg diy , check you tube , pay local tech for that part ? i believe it took tech longer then expected when he installed mine , might be running the wire internally was the issue , once attached your would be a custom run

i don’t know if he dropped the motor , think he did and if he did run wire for upgraded display at the same rime might be a cost saver if you plan on upgrading the display.

All above is my opinion, check all steps before spending any money

Ben I paid list price for the kit when I purchased the bike and it was installed a week or so later when it arrived. They did not do the crap to me , did not even mention more money when it took longer then expected, major turn off to any retail establishment that pulls stunts like this!

 

[opimax]

Dallant, Just realized you may be asking if the SL style for bottle style cable can used rather than the dbl battery connector I have Installed , don’t know. My response was using the cable which I have currently Installed.

 

[tpete61]

So where did you get your “Y” cable and obtain the plug that mates to your extra battery?
And isn’t there some programming of the system involved? Do you have any pictures of your setup?

The "Y" Cable comes with the range boost kit. The kit includes all necessary parts to install the battery. You have to drop the motor. The range boost comes with an installation booklet. This installation is doable for an average skilled mechanical person. The biggest difficulty is stuffing excess wire in behind the motor. There is very little room above the motor for the excess wire. There is no reprogramming anything. The second battery is recognized immediately after it is installed.
I believe you can download the install manual on Trek's web site. It does show photos of the components in the range boost kit.

I was going to purchase a regular second 625wh battery but decided against it after talking to the LBS. The reasoning is that they behave as one battery when connected and I don't need to carry the heavy spare battery somewhere on the bike. The range boost is always ready to go. When charging on the bike you just plug in the charge cable as normal and it will charge both batteries at once.

 

[benjamintiger12]

It should be doable . The plug is directly above the motor, I believe the cable is available, ($73 comes from memory but memory not good ) but attaching to the motor may be above the avg diy , check you tube , pay local tech for that part ? i believe it took tech longer then expected when he installed mine , might be running the wire internally was the issue , once attached your would be a custom run

i don’t know if he dropped the motor , think he did and if he did run wire for upgraded display at the same rime might be a cost saver if you plan on upgrading the display.

All above is my opinion, check all steps before spending any money

Ben I paid list price for the kit when I purchased the bike and it was installed a week or so later when it arrived. They did not do the crap to me , did not even mention more money when it took longer then expected, major turn off to any retail establishment that pulls stunts like this!

I was considering just not paying it but didn't want to get the worker in trouble. People make mistakes! Just frustrating. It also only took them an hour and a half. I work in retail management so I was a little more forgiving. Definitely little bitter taste in mouth for sure!!!

 

[opimax]

This same scenereo happened to me on my last and I do mean last purchase of a battery from a well known Wisc dealer when they added shipping to me on the battery purchase when it arrived at their shop. I asked about it when purchased a couple months earlier. I also noted to myself it was not marked with lithium shipping info, thought that was required

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Dumb question time to William from Bosch...
Is it possible to plug my spare Powertube battery I’m carrying like the picture into my Allant+7 and have them both power the bike like Range Boost option?
View attachment 68762

My apologies for the delayed response...

Unfortunately, not advisable. The Y-cable is a restricted purchase item, so you'd have to get it as part of a range boost kit from your dealer. You'd also need to find a way to keep the plug attached to the battery while in use. Constant wiggling and shifting due to a loose connection will cause power cut-out, error codes, and very likely irreversible damage to the power cable and/or battery itself.

I hope you don't mind me using this as an example (please tell me if you do mind and I will delete this portion), but this is part of the reason Bosch does not offer the Y-cable for general purchase. There is no way of assuring this type of setup or modification would be safe, reliable, etc., and it may negate some portion of the safety testing that Bosch/OEM has done for these components and/or the complete bicycle.

 

[rich c]

I don't understand the need to have 2 batteries plugged in at the same time with a DIY "Y" cable setup. At 50 miles I would be way more than ready to get off the saddle and take a rest. The 1 minute it would take to swap out a second battery would not disturb my ride or my snack time for refueling me as well as the eBike.

 

[Dallant]

My apologies for the delayed response...

Unfortunately, not advisable. The Y-cable is a restricted purchase item, so you'd have to get it as part of a range boost kit from your dealer. You'd also need to find a way to keep the plug attached to the battery while in use. Constant wiggling and shifting due to a loose connection will cause power cut-out, error codes, and very likely irreversible damage to the power cable and/or battery itself.

I hope you don't mind me using this as an example (please tell me if you do mind and I will delete this portion), but this is part of the reason Bosch does not offer the Y-cable for general purchase. There is no way of assuring this type of setup or modification would be safe, reliable, etc., and it may negate some portion of the safety testing that Bosch/OEM has done for these components and/or the complete bicycle.

Just a thought, not a plan. That said, it is bothersome that Trek/Bosch design a great looking RIB system that requires an ugly attachment like the Range Boost to utilize an additional battery.

 

[opimax]

Rich, having bikes of both, only difference to me is knowing it better on the batteries but no real difference in use. I actually take a spare so I travel with 3, 2 external 1 in the frame. I tend to swap the fresh one in when I stop for my 1st fruit break, 20 miles or so. I am not sure what is the best way to rotate to save battery health with the 3 batteries