Bosch mid drive bikes (Haibike) vs Hub motor bikes (ST2, Turbo)

[Jerry Wang]

Hi All,

I am new to electric bikes and have found the site to be super helpful.

I am looking to buy a premium urban bike (preferably with some offroad capability) and have narrowed down my choice to these. My main objective is for it to be powerful and fast. It'll probably be an expensive toy but i may use it for NYC commuting. (do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?)


The choice is mainly between a bike with the Bosch mid drive system (Haibike, Felt, Grace Mx2) and a hub motor bike (St2, turbo).

I have tried the ST2 and it seems decently powerful. From what I read, I am a little afraid that the bosch bikes are not going to feel as powerful(on flat streets).

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Brambor]

you could probably test drive both system either at Propel Bikes or at the NYCEWheels and see what it feels like.

I figure if the streets are flat then if one of the systems did not feel as powerful it wouldn't really be an issue because the streets are flat.

 

[Mike leroy]

Hi All,

I am new to electric bikes and have found the site to be super helpful.

I am looking to buy a premium urban bike (preferably with some offroad capability) and have narrowed down my choice to these. My main objective is for it to be powerful and fast. It'll probably be an expensive toy but i may use it for NYC commuting. (do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?)


The choice is mainly between a bike with the Bosch mid drive system (Haibike, Felt, Grace Mx2) and a hub motor bike (St2, turbo).

I have tried the ST2 and it seems decently powerful. From what I read, I am a little afraid that the bosch bikes are not going to feel as powerful(on flat streets).

Thanks in advance for your help!

How fast do you want to go in mph? (I will buy HPC Revolution in near future. Capable of 45mph on and off road)
Exactly how far do you want to go? (Has 26 Amp hour NMC battery for 100 mile range at 20 mph)
How much are you willing to spend ? (Costs $9000)

Contact me via a private conversation for more details. I am not selling but had, major conflict with @Brambor who responded to your post, too

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

Do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?

Oh hell no! Especially an ST2. I would only leave a rusted out $50 beater on the streets of NYC, something I can afford to lose and that nobody would want or be able to sell for crack. Good luck! -S

 

[Brambor]

yeah. do that Jerry. Mike lives in lalaland (silicon valley), does not own an electric bike, never has ridden an electric bike but he will give you an expert advice for sure. You'll get tons of graphs and spreadsheets and then you'll get all excited to spend $9000 on an electric moped that will be very popular in NYC (sarcasm)... until police impounds it because those types of bikes are illegal in New York City. (mike has not researched that far)

 

[Mike leroy]

yeah. do that Jerry. Mike lives in lalaland (silicon valley), does not own an electric bike, never has ridden an electric bike but he will give you an expert advice for sure. You'll get tons of graphs and spreadsheets and then you'll get all excited to spend $9000 on an electric moped that will be very popular in NYC (sarcasm)... until police impounds it because those types of bikes are illegal in New York City. (mike has not researched that far)

There you go again! Making personal attacks. @Brambor did you search all my posts before accusing me of being unaware of NYC laws? I have known about it for over a year.

I have wanted to buy an eBike for years. Until the HPC Revolution came along, my road is simply not an option.

You are making a great first impression for new visitors.

 

[Brambor]

I'm putting you back on ignore Tiger.

(don't mention my name as you did in your initial post and I won't notice or respond to your posts)

 

[opimax]

what makes you think the OP wants all the info on your choice of bikes and wants to buy it just because you do? Base don my best guess which I would not offer on this thread, at least yet I would guess your choice is terrible for what he asked accept it is powerful? did you not read he read the forums so why do you guide him to your personal choice ? At least respond to his question of the his choices before pushing your own agenda. how does your bike ride in the city ? do you have panniers on it? oh that right you dont have a bike or you have not even ridden and ebike. What does your road have to do with this thread? it is the last thing he asked about was do mountain lions go after Ebikers in NYC?

 

[Mike leroy]

what makes you think the OP wants all the info on your choice of bikes and wants to buy it just because you do? Base don my best guess which I would not offer on this thread, at least yet I would guess your choice is terrible for what he asked accept it is powerful? did you not read he read the forums so why do you guide him to your personal choice ? At least respond to his question of the his choices before pushing your own agenda. how does your bike ride in the city ? do you have panniers on it? oh that right you dont have a bike or you have not even ridden and ebike. What does your road have to do with this thread? it is the last thing he asked about was do mountain lions go after Ebikers in NYC?

Why don't you let jerry decide for himself? Are you the site administrator? The last time you acted this way @Racingkyle said that he appreciated my help in his post. Did Kyle publicly show his appreciation towards you?

Why do you make this a personal attack, rather than answering Jerry's questions? What is wrong with you ? Why do you use an alias, Mr. "OptiMax" . What is your real name? What are you hiding from?

You are a great diplomat for the site.

 

[Mike leroy]

Why don't you let him decide? Are you the site administrator? The last time you acted this way @Racingkyle said that he appreciated my help in his post. Did Kyle publicly show his appreciation towards you?

Why do you make this a personal attack, rather than answering his questions? What is wrong with you?

You are a great diplomat for the site.

 

[Cameron Newland]

Hi All,

I am new to electric bikes and have found the site to be super helpful.

I am looking to buy a premium urban bike (preferably with some offroad capability) and have narrowed down my choice to these. My main objective is for it to be powerful and fast. It'll probably be an expensive toy but i may use it for NYC commuting. (do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?)

The choice is mainly between a bike with the Bosch mid drive system (Haibike, Felt, Grace Mx2) and a hub motor bike (St2, turbo).

I have tried the ST2 and it seems decently powerful. From what I read, I am a little afraid that the bosch bikes are not going to feel as powerful(on flat streets).

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hey Jerry,

I think the mid-drive options will be plenty fast for you. Keep in mind that the ST2 weighs 62lbs, which is ~15lbs more than the competing bike models you mentioned. Out of the box, the Haibike would likely have a lower top speed than the ST2 because Haibikes are generally limited to 20mph, however, I think higher speeds can be unlocked by taking your bike to a dealer or by changing the settings on the computer/controller. The Specialized Turbo X offer similar speed and acceleration similar to the ST2, since it's not limited to 20mph like the Haibikes are. You can't go wrong with the Turbo X, the ST2, or a good Haibike, but if I were you, I'd really look into the Grace MX2, because with its combination of a Nuvinci transmission and Gates carbon drive belt, you won't have to worry about cleaning and lubricating your chain every 100 miles (or every time you ride in the rain), and you also won't have to worry about bending your derailleur hanger (I've accidentally done it a handful of times) since the MX II doesn't have a derailleur. The only downside of the Grace bikes is that they don't really have a huge dealer/service footprint in the US. For most US ebike riders, I think it's hard to even find a dealer with a single Grace ebike in stock to test-ride. I know that one guy out here in LA ordered one from a local shop, but it was a special order and they normally don't stock them.

If I were you, I wouldn't leave your bike locked up outdoors in NYC. If you do, you'd want an ST2, as its GPS offers an option for recovery, whereas none of the other bikes offer GPS tracking out-of-the-box. I lock up my ebike outdoors occasionally, but usually for less than two hours, and I use two U-locks, and I also have a policy with Velosurance. The other thing is that my ebike only cost $3,000 new, so if my bike gets stolen, it's not as big of a deal as if I had had a $5,000+ bike stolen.

On an unrelated note, I think this forum would be infinitely better for all if @Mike leroy was banned from posting on it, because he is antagonistic, disruptive, and also bafflingly strange. Just my $0.02. ;-)

 

[stevenast]

From what I read, I am a little afraid that the bosch bikes are not going to feel as powerful(on flat streets).

You should get more input from @Shea N Encinitas , because his Bosch is "unleashed". My Bosch bike gets up to 20 and BAM the assist goes away.... smoothly ...but still, its annoying. Has plenty of power up to that though.

Mid-drive advantages include devouring hills and less unsprung weight (especially good off road).

Definitely ride all that interest you (and more), before you buy. Reason I say that, besides it's just good advice, is that when I was comparing brands a couple months ago, the bike I ended up with wasn't even on my radar at that point.

 

[Mike leroy]

what makes you think the OP wants all the info on your choice of bikes and wants to buy it just because you do? Base don my best guess which I would not offer on this thread, at least yet I would guess your choice is terrible for what he asked accept it is powerful? did you not read he read the forums so why do you guide him to your personal choice ? At least respond to his question of the his choices before pushing your own agenda. how does your bike ride in the city ? do you have panniers on it? oh that right you dont have a bike or you have not even ridden and ebike. What does your road have to do with this thread? it is the last thing he asked about was do mountain lions go after Ebikers in NYC?

Hey Jerry,

I think the mid-drive options will be plenty fast for you. Keep in mind that the ST2 weighs 62lbs, which is ~15lbs more than the competing bike models you mentioned. Out of the box, the Haibike would likely have a lower top speed than the ST2 because Haibikes are generally limited to 20mph, however, I think higher speeds can be unlocked by taking your bike to a dealer or by changing the settings on the computer/controller. The Specialized Turbo X offer similar speed and acceleration similar to the ST2, since it's not limited to 20mph like the Haibikes are. You can't go wrong with the Turbo X, the ST2, or a good Haibike, but if I were you, I'd really look into the Grace MX2, because with its combination of a Nuvinci transmission and Gates carbon drive belt, you won't have to worry about cleaning and lubricating your chain every 100 miles (or every time you ride in the rain), and you also won't have to worry about bending your derailleur hanger (I've accidentally done it a handful of times) since the MX II doesn't have a derailleur. The only downside of the Grace bikes is that they don't really have a huge dealer/service footprint in the US. For most US ebike riders, I think it's hard to even find a dealer with a single Grace ebike in stock to test-ride. I know that one guy out here in LA ordered one from a local shop, but it was a special order and they normally don't stock them.

If I were you, I wouldn't leave your bike locked up outdoors in NYC. If you do, you'd want an ST2, as its GPS offers an option for recovery, whereas none of the other bikes offer GPS tracking out-of-the-box. I lock up my ebike outdoors occasionally, but usually for less than two hours, and I use two U-locks, and I also have a policy with Velosurance. The other thing is that my ebike only cost $3,000 new, so if my bike gets stolen, it's not as big of a deal as if I had had a $5,000+ bike stolen.

On an unrelated note, I think this forum would be infinitely better for all if @Mike leroy was banned from posting on it, because he is antagonistic and also bafflingly strange. Just my $0.02. ;-)

cameron. Why do you not do the obvious to get me banned? Contact @Court . What could be easier, unless you are disingenuous ?

 

[Cameron Newland]

cameron. Why do you not do the obvious to get me banned? Contact @Court . What could be easier, unless you are disingenuous ?

Mike, I will do as I please. Court is a smart, well-respected forum moderator and ebike reviewer, and I trust that he'll do whatever is best for his community without any need for me to appeal to him. I have no reason not to trust his judgment.

Please, let's stay on-topic here and help Jerry decide what the best bike for him is!

 

[Mike leroy]

Mike, I will do as I please. Court is a smart, well-respected forum moderator and ebike reviewer, and I trust that he'll do whatever is best for his community without any need for me to appeal to him. I have no reason not to trust his judgment.

Please, let's stay on-topic here and help Jerry decide what the best bike for him is!

Well, I have simply done the same about you and your gang by simply pressing the Report button. So, if had been the problem, I would have been long gone!

 

[stevenast]

do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?)

Jerry, I know everyone here appreciates your sense of humor!

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

Jerry, I know everyone here appreciates your sense of humor!

Without a winky or the inflection of presence, I thought maybe the guy was living in a fantasy World. Besides I'm working, thus only partially paying attention. -S

 

[MLB]

Hi All,

I am new to electric bikes and have found the site to be super helpful.

I am looking to buy a premium urban bike (preferably with some offroad capability) and have narrowed down my choice to these. My main objective is for it to be powerful and fast. It'll probably be an expensive toy but i may use it for NYC commuting. (do you guys think it's a good idea to leave the bike on a rack in NYC during the day?)


The choice is mainly between a bike with the Bosch mid drive system (Haibike, Felt, Grace Mx2) and a hub motor bike (St2, turbo).

I have tried the ST2 and it seems decently powerful. From what I read, I am a little afraid that the bosch bikes are not going to feel as powerful(on flat streets).

Thanks in advance for your help!

The guy that takes your bike will think it's a very good idea.

I just got a Haibike FS RS 27.5 and it's sweet, but not as powerful as my ST1, so the ST2 would be much stronger.

On further review, it's not "that much" weaker than the Stromer. Because it shuts off assist at 20mph it's hard to tell quickly but the more I ride it the more I'm impressed.
I was wrong about suspension being superfluous, dang it's nice.