BMC and Stromer...

[bluecat]

An e-bike isn't a need or a necessity to live right? Here is what definition of NEED via Wikipedia.

Thanks for adding philosophie to this discussion. The definition you've cited fits exactly for "basic needs" - but there is some more.

For better understanding of the graphic (from Abraham Maslow): Need = Bedürfnis

Aware of this, you might argue, Apple creates social need: If you don't own a Iphone, your social environment might not accept you as a member. If you want to stay with them, you have to buy.

@ 1) The ST2 allows larger range to commute. This will give more opportunities, where your flat or house is located. Living in a better neighborhood is also a Bedürfnis.

@ 2) Apple is more or less sole in their segment of the market. A Mac Pro has its price, far above ST2. But would Apple survive, if they had to build a workstation with competitive pricing?

 

[grench]

Thanks for adding philosophie to this discussion. The definition you've cited fits exactly for "basic needs" - but there is some more.

For better understanding of the graphic (from Abraham Maslow): Need = Bedürfnis

Aware of this, you might argue, Apple creates social need: If you don't own a Iphone, your social environment might not accept you as a member. If you want to stay with them, you have to buy.

@ 1) The ST2 allows larger range to commute. This will give more opportunities, where your flat or house is located. Living in a better neighborhood is also a Bedürfnis.

@ 2) Apple is more or less sole in their segment of the market. A Mac Pro has its price, far above ST2. But would Apple survive, if they had to build a workstation with competitive pricing?

Damn I'm back in school...when's the test?

 

[Cory151]

Thanks for adding philosophie to this discussion. The definition you've cited fits exactly for "basic needs" - but there is some more.

For better understanding of the graphic (from Abraham Maslow): Need = Bedürfnis

Aware of this, you might argue, Apple creates social need: If you don't own a Iphone, your social environment might not accept you as a member. If you want to stay with them, you have to buy.

@ 1) The ST2 allows larger range to commute. This will give more opportunities, where your flat or house is located. Living in a better neighborhood is also a Bedürfnis.

@ 2) Apple is more or less sole in their segment of the market. A Mac Pro has its price, far above ST2. But would Apple survive, if they had to build a workstation with competitive pricing?

No clue. I'm just gonna address your last point because is invalid on a level that doesn't warrant a food pyramid.


Good old Apple is the sole maker of watches, tablets, laptops and smartphone huh? This is news to me. Im sure Samsung, and Google would be elated to know that they're not selling in the same markets as AAPL. One could even make a strong car that Microsoft and Amazon compete in this exact segment, as well.

 

[Deleted member 803]

I get a kick out of folks offering an opinion on value. Sorry for the marketing 101 lesson: Value is not an objective tangible. Value, or more correctly 'value perception" is comprised of many factors of which price is only one tiny consideration. Value applies to the intrinsic determination of personal satisfaction. And, of course, defining personal satisfaction is a very difficult thing. Finding a value proposition for a company is a very complex consideration.
Apple, for example, derives its value proposition on form, integration, and build quality. The consumer pays top dollar for apple products but I would bet the number of folks who define their apple products as poor values would be very very small.

Carving out a value proposition in a totally undeveloped market with no brand recognition (e-bikes) is very tricky. Consideration is given to:

1. competitive offerings
2. product range for suitability to task
3. build quality
4. retail price
5. distribution strategy
6. warranty
7. configuration services
8. technical innovation
9. availability (inventory)

As an example, CurrieTech favors 2,4, 5. Stromer favors 3,8. Not that any company completely ignores any of the above but they do have strategies that vary.

From a pure business perspective, none of the perceived value characteristics are right or wrong. CurrieTech believes that enormous product range and strong retail presence is the way to go to establish brand preference. Stromer believes technical innovation and build quality are the way to go.

I'll give you a personal opinion. I took my family out to a local burger joint for a quick lunch. The food and service was just terrible. The bill for 5 people was $42.00. I considered it a ripoff and a horrendous value proposition. I then took my family to Thomas Kellers French Bistro in Yountville called Bouchon. The food and service was out of this world and the tab for 5 was $390.00. I considered it a fantastic value. Money is typically a poor contributor to perceived value....you get the idea.

When I drive my Honda Fit, I derive high value every time I go to the gas station and by never visiting the dealer for service. When I drive my Bentley I derive my value from my sense of financial success and the ogling of others.

 

[Deleted member 803]

For those interested, I am an expert on Abe Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You can read my brief blog on this concept:

http://thedailygadfly.tumblr.com/post/24815654459/my-underwear-smells-really-good

 

[stevenast]

I am an expert on Abe Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Then you know for most Americans where e-bike ownership falls on the pyramid.

If we are going to refer to an e-bike as a "need", then every desire is going to have to be labeled as a need: "I need to watch TV right now. I need to eat some Ben and Jerry's while I'm doing it. I need to check the EBR forum during the commercials. I need to 'like' a nonsense post":

the statement reads: "need" and you proceed to make an argument about wants

Splitting hairs to muddle the discussion. Lol

 

[bluecat]

I was very interested in Haibike, but the test ride turned me off. It just did not fit me well.

This morning, I've used all effort, catching a Grace MX a few hundert meters in front of me. The Grace MX runs with the Bosch Performance 60 motor - similar as the road-Haibike. How was your impression about this mid-drive?

(I could only overtake, because I'm riding my classic Stromer. With a ST2 no way.)

 

[Llcjay]

The ST2 weighs over 60 lbs With a heavy hub motor. Aside from the pretty led screen and the large battery what justifies the price premium?

If the st2 was 35 lbs and proper weight distribution, then there would be tech worth paying for.

Just gilding the lily imo

 

[stevenast]

The ST2 weighs over 60 lbs With a heavy hub motor. Aside from the pretty led screen and the large battery what justifies the price premium?

It's, like, the cool thing to have. 26" wheels are the latest thing too!

 

[opimax]

have you ridden an ST2 ? I have not but I ride a st1 , when it works it works very well for what I use it for which is paved paths 95% of the time. I cant tell how much it weighs when riding on the paths. it is great a covering distance which is what I want it for. I would think the 2 would be even better for my purpose. I dont want the fancy buzzers and bells but i would like the battery and motor.

pls keep bashing Stromer in the Stromer section , it is what everyone here wants to read, i would hate to accidentally find some facts

 

[stevenast]

pls keep bashing Stromer in the Stromer section , it is what everyone here wants to read

Have you noticed? We almost always have more visitors than members using this site at any one time. My posting here is not intended for owners of this product. I am writing for people who might be considering buying it - spending their hard-earned money on it. People come to this forum for information. Here's some:

There are better values out there - such as products by Easy Motion, depending on your needs. Also Prodeco makes high speed bikes with high capacity batteries for far less money.

Of course the owners of any particular product (Stromer in this case) are going to come to its defense, so this is simply trying to show that there's another side.

 

[opimax]

I dont believe that that an EM is a better value, that is not a fact it is your opinion! you present it as a fact. It doesnt do what my ST1 does less than even less compared to a ST2. Similar? Yes the same? No. My Baja has 4 wheels and will go around a race track , is it a better value when the race start against race cars? No , not for the intended purpose. If my sole desire for an ebike is the Omni interface it doesnt even compare.

I still stand by not want to read devils advocate remarks for sole purpose of being the devil as i do own a couple of Stromers

 

[bluecat]

I can't read all the postings here, but I'm very familiar with stromerforum.ch

In addition to the Stromer owners, we also have several visitors which seek information before buying. Sometimes, it's only fine-tuning: ST2 or ST1 or Mountain 33, medium or large battery and so on. From time to time, there are potential customers with special requirements or let's say assumptions. In the most cases, we must disappoint them: The electric bicycle with the range of a Tesla and the weight of a BMC Timemachine and the robustness of a Porsche at the price of a Walmart bike is still not invented.

 

[opimax]

yet ....

 

[bluecat]

Fine, now back to the topic.

myStromer belongs BMC, which is owned by Andy Rhis. Bergamont was also part of the BMC group. But no longer, then Bergamot has been sold. This is somehow surprising, because Bergamont was known as the "cash cow" within the BMC group. With this step, BMC and my Stromer AG are all alone.

Looking forward to your comments...

 

[MLB]

Have you noticed? We almost always have more visitors than members using this site at any one time. My posting here is not intended for owners of this product. I am writing for people who might be considering buying it - spending their hard-earned money on it. People come to this forum for information. Here's some:

There are better values out there - such as products by Easy Motion, depending on your needs. Also Prodeco makes high speed bikes with high capacity batteries for far less money.

Of course the owners of any particular product (Stromer in this case) are going to come to its defense, so this is simply trying to show that there's another side.

The Prodeco I saw wasn't even in the same neighborhood as a Stromer in build quality. And I'm selling mine, so I'm no homer.
Its an outstanding bike that will last a long time. Many will not.

 

[gtawest]

Out looks like Stromer has been sold to Scott Sports SA.

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/...-divestment-of-stromer-and-bergamont-10124265

 

[ProfSharona]

The English translation is ambiguous. What does "Next to..." Mean in the first sentence? Can anyone help parse the meaning?

 

[George S.]

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2015/06/25/scott-sports-acquires-bergamont#.VZ1CbvlVhBc

It seems like a sale to Scott...

 

[bluecat]

Please allow me quote myself, because I still believe, the article from RIDE is closest to the facts.

myStromer belongs BMC, which is owned by Andy Rhis. Bergamont was also part of the BMC group. But no longer, then Bergamot has been sold. This is somehow surprising, because Bergamont was known as the "cash cow" within the BMC group. With this step, BMC and my Stromer AG are all alone.

Looking forward to your comments...