Best strategy for v. steep hill

[AHicks]

meant "sissies"

As a 69 year old, I got what you meant....

 

[tallenvt]

As a 69 year old, I got what you meant....

Thanks.

 

[Antia]

I have had a similar problem when I first got my radwagon. I have extensively modified it and have also installed a Bolton kit on another bike, so perhaps I can add a few things to check and possible options.

First of all, it seems odd that you can't get up the 10% hill with the direct drive motor. One of the things I would do is to try pedaling without assist on flat ground. Are you feeling excessive resistance? Is the drivetrain/brakes rubbing in a weird way? You expect to feel some resistance with the direct drive motor from the rad city, but it should be possible to pedal in all gears on flat ground. A mechanical problem could be really affecting the bike and might be hard to detect unless you turn the assist off. If in doubt, have a local shop check it. For context, my 2016 radwagon (which uses the same motor) was just about able to get me up a 20% incline in the hill where I live. I absolutely could not get up with cargo though, so I had so do other things to my bike (yes, I am aware that the incline is beyond the max recommended by Rad).

Second, what the Bolton kit does is essentially upgrade the controller for your motor. The display changes as well and you get more configuration options, but that is secondary. The main thing is that the upgraded controller will let more amperage to go through the motor, this in turn means more torque, which is exactly what you need to get up the hill. I bought a Bolton kit to install on my husband's Radrover because it was also not doing great while going up my monster hill when loaded. The kit is pretty straightforward to install, but you do have to be willing to tinker a bit with regards to attaching things on the bike, etc. The new controller made a huge difference regarding the torque of the motor. Now, the kit is designed for the radrover (a geared drive) and you have a rad city (direct drive) but it will almost certainly work fine. It is also extremely unlikely the new controller will damage the direct drive motor. One of the main reasons that people use direct drive motors is their extreme durability and reliability. In particular, they are good at shedding heat, which is the result of sending more amps through the motor.

The other advice is to get going as fast as you can (full throttle!) as you approach the hill, that is not just because you will get farther from the inertia, but also because the motor is more efficient at the higher speeds and will transfer more power to the wheels, so you get an advantage in both senses. This means (counterintuitively) that you might want to be in the gears that allow you to go faster but make pedaling harder as you approach the hill and gun the throttle.

Good luck!

 

[tallenvt]

I have had a similar problem when I first got my radwagon. I have extensively modified it and have also installed a Bolton kit on another bike, so perhaps I can add a few things to check and possible options.

First of all, it seems odd that you can't get up the 10% hill with the direct drive motor. One of the things I would do is to try pedaling without assist on flat ground. Are you feeling excessive resistance? Is the drivetrain/brakes rubbing in a weird way? You expect to feel some resistance with the direct drive motor from the rad city, but it should be possible to pedal in all gears on flat ground. A mechanical problem could be really affecting the bike and might be hard to detect unless you turn the assist off. If in doubt, have a local shop check it. For context, my 2016 radwagon (which uses the same motor) was just about able to get me up a 20% incline in the hill where I live. I absolutely could not get up with cargo though, so I had so do other things to my bike (yes, I am aware that the incline is beyond the max recommended by Rad).

Second, what the Bolton kit does is essentially upgrade the controller for your motor. The display changes as well and you get more configuration options, but that is secondary. The main thing is that the upgraded controller will let more amperage to go through the motor, this in turn means more torque, which is exactly what you need to get up the hill. I bought a Bolton kit to install on my husband's Radrover because it was also not doing great while going up my monster hill when loaded. The kit is pretty straightforward to install, but you do have to be willing to tinker a bit with regards to attaching things on the bike, etc. The new controller made a huge difference regarding the torque of the motor. Now, the kit is designed for the radrover (a geared drive) and you have a rad city (direct drive) but it will almost certainly work fine. It is also extremely unlikely the new controller will damage the direct drive motor. One of the main reasons that people use direct drive motors is their extreme durability and reliability. In particular, they are good at shedding heat, which is the result of sending more amps through the motor.

The other advice is to get going as fast as you can (full throttle!) as you approach the hill, that is not just because you will get farther from the inertia, but also because the motor is more efficient at the higher speeds and will transfer more power to the wheels, so you get an advantage in both senses. This means (counterintuitively) that you might want to be in the gears that allow you to go faster but make pedaling harder as you approach the hill and gun the throttle.

Good luck!

Thanks for such a thoughtful response. I went back to the hill and realized I miscalculated the slope. it is much steeper than 10% altho I cant tell you exactly what it is. Just know that very fit people on good regular bikes find it a big challenge. I did make it up the second time I tried--using just the techniques you described--but I had to peddle like mad and can't say it was fun. I first got up speed and then hit 5 assist and 1st gear and some zig-zagging. at that point i was at 750w and the throttle was useless. If i get the bolton, how will it affect handling. i have read that the throttle, which has a very small turning radius becomes hard to control and jerky. Is that true? any other downsides--other than range? Is the range affected when you are riding on flat od slightly sloping ground, or just when you max out the power.
Thanks again. It is such a fun bike--my second ebike--but a disappointment as configured.

 

[Antia]

That sounds exactly like my hill and my experience with the radwagon. I think Bolton kit might be your best option.

Regarding your questions:
1. Not sure why the throttle would become harder to control. You just have more power at your disposal, so perhaps that is what you mean?
2. Downsides. Other than having to buy the thing and do work on the bike, I don't see many problems. The range really is dependent on how much you are using the assist, just as it did before. The fact that the maximum amps is now higher does not mean you will have to run that way in your normal biking. Also the kit allows you a lot more configuration options regarding power levels and so on (if you are inclined to change that).

The main down sides are: ensuring compatibility, ensuring that the kit is enough to fulfills your needs and of course, it is not an "approved" modification from Rad, so that is also a consideration.

My own path went a different way. I installed a mid-drive motor in the radwagon, but that is a much more involved modification and I was aware that I might go that path when I took the decision to buy the bike.

Good luck! I hope you find a good solution. It is frustrating that you can't fully enjoy the bike because of a 0.5 mile stretch!

Thanks for such a thoughtful response. I went back to the hill and realized I miscalculated the slope. it is much steeper than 10% altho I cant tell you exactly what it is. Just know that very fit people on good regular bikes find it a big challenge. I did make it up the second time I tried--using just the techniques you described--but I had to peddle like mad and can't say it was fun. I first got up speed and then hit 5 assist and 1st gear and some zig-zagging. at that point i was at 750w and the throttle was useless. If i get the bolton, how will it affect handling. i have read that the throttle, which has a very small turning radius becomes hard to control and jerky. Is that true? any other downsides--other than range? Is the range affected when you are riding on flat od slightly sloping ground, or just when you max out the power.
Thanks again. It is such a fun bike--my second ebike--but a disappointment as configured.

 

[RangerDave]

I think this YouTube video by Bolton explains the various settings for programming the controller:

Regarding the throttle issue, it could be that 1/4 twist using the Rad controller feeds 200 watts to the motor whereas the same 1/4 twist with the Bolton controller may feed it 400 watts (I do not know for sure). That may make it seem a little bit twitchy or abrupt until you get used to learning just how much to twist under various circumstances. I believe one of the programmable settings will limit the power going to the motor so you can adjust it to your preference and mitigate the abruptness.

I don’t believe your range will be affected at all by simply swapping to the new controller, all things being equal. The more you use the throttle with higher wattage going to the motor, then that WILL drain the battery faster (i.e. jackrabbit starts and climbing your steep hill). If you primarily use PAS mode, your range should largely be unaffected.

RangerDave