Best strategy for v. steep hill
- Thread starter tallenvt
- Start date
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Yes, I've done a lot of work on my '17 RAD City to get it's performance on par with MY expectations. The short story is that I did end up with a gear driven hub, a kit similar to Bolton's, street tires, a decent seat, and a suspension seat post. Even figuring the price of these mods, the bike is still on the inexpensive side.
The bike is often used in a rolling coastal area with some pretty good sized hills. One of my early mods was to install another direct drive motor TWICE the size of the original. That was much better, but there were STILL hills that provided a bit of a challenge lets say. This proved to me that direct drive motors and hills should never be mixed.....
The solution to the power problem was a gear driven motor, a good one, with 1000 + watts of power available. Not only is it much more efficient than the 1500w direct drive (battery mileage increased by 30% with no other changes), the big hills are no longer a challenge. This thing eats them up in PAS 3. -Al
Whoops. I redid the math and i think the hill is a 10% grade. 1/3 of a mile--1760 feet long-- and 170 ft rise--which makes the math easy, if i understand the equation. [and not that it matters in this case, i'm a woman.] Anyone know someone near central Vermont who can make upgrades to the bike if i decide to go that route? ether direct drive motor or new controller
Chancelucky2
Well-Known Member
Ah, that's a big difference. A 10% grade requires around 600 watts of power to go 12 mph. Your bike likely won't do that. If you're willing to go really slow and in your lowest gear, it might, but you're probably looking at being able to walk up the hill faster.
Thanks. Bad news, but at least I know it's not ALL me.
Have you reached out to the folks at Rad? It sounds like this bike is fairly new, so the sooner you contact them the better it is, if you're going to try to return the bike. Rad has a no return policy, but they told me they sometimes make exceptions. This bike clearly isn't working for you. There will be a penalty return cost of some kind, but if you're kind, humble and honest and it's still basically new, they might make an exception to return it. The folks at Rad are pretty nice people.
There's lots of engineers and math whiz's on this forum who know better than me about gear math and road grade calculations, but I checked and the rear part of the RadCity drivetrain is not too flexible. The Altus derailleur maxes out at 34 teeth and the bike has an 11-34 freewheel vs cassette, so there's not as many replacement options.
But there might be some wiggle room with the front crank cog. Both the RadCity 3 & 4 have the same rear drivetrain with an 11-34 cog freewheel and Altus derailleur. But the RadCity 3 has a 46 tooth crank and the RadCity 4 has a 42 tooth crank. The closer that you can get to a 1-1 gear ratio, the easier the bike will be to pedal. I don't see why you can't replace the front crank cog to be a little smaller. If you don't know how to do that replacement you'll need to make friends with a local bike shop to help figure it out.
If you are able to return the bike or sell it & get a new one, with your very specific needs, I'd stay away from internet bikes and go with a bike that you can test ride first on your actual dirt road hill. Most local bike shops have rental fleets or loaner bikes. I upgraded from my RadCity in March and bought a Specialized Vado 4. (now I have two E-Bikes) Before I did that I "rented" a Vado 3 for a week, rode the heck out of it and proved that it was the bike I wanted. Because I bought the Vado 4, they didn't charge me anything for using the Vado 3 for a week, which was exceptionally awesome!
Because you live in eco-groovy VT, you have options that most states don't have. Do you know about the VT E-Bike Library? VT has a system where VT residents can borrow an E-Bike for a long weekend for zero cost and get to know it. Based on your description of your situation and desires, a Specialized Como might be a good fit for you? You can borrow a Como or a Trek Verve and I forget what other bikes? So you could test ride a variety of E-Bikes for free.
www.localmotion.org
VT also says that it's the only state in the US that has an E-Bike rebate. Be sure and take advantage of that! VT E-Bike rebate info is in that above link.
Finally, VT has some outstanding bike shops. Burlington, VT for instance has about every major brand of E-Bike out there for you to test ride. Some of the Gazelle's would be a great bike for you to test ride.
One of the hidden issues of internet E-Bikes is that most bike shops don't want to work on them, so you're pretty much on your own with upgrades, maintenance and repairs. That was one of the big reasons I bought the Vado. I wanted a bike that my LBS would stand behind when inevitable issues popped up. I didn't know that was an issue when I bought my RadCity.
That's all I got Amigo! I hope that helps. Again, best of luck!!
There's lots of engineers and math whiz's on this forum who know better than me about gear math and road grade calculations, but I checked and the rear part of the RadCity drivetrain is not too flexible. The Altus derailleur maxes out at 34 teeth and the bike has an 11-34 freewheel vs cassette, so there's not as many replacement options.
But there might be some wiggle room with the front crank cog. Both the RadCity 3 & 4 have the same rear drivetrain with an 11-34 cog freewheel and Altus derailleur. But the RadCity 3 has a 46 tooth crank and the RadCity 4 has a 42 tooth crank. The closer that you can get to a 1-1 gear ratio, the easier the bike will be to pedal. I don't see why you can't replace the front crank cog to be a little smaller. If you don't know how to do that replacement you'll need to make friends with a local bike shop to help figure it out.
If you are able to return the bike or sell it & get a new one, with your very specific needs, I'd stay away from internet bikes and go with a bike that you can test ride first on your actual dirt road hill. Most local bike shops have rental fleets or loaner bikes. I upgraded from my RadCity in March and bought a Specialized Vado 4. (now I have two E-Bikes) Before I did that I "rented" a Vado 3 for a week, rode the heck out of it and proved that it was the bike I wanted. Because I bought the Vado 4, they didn't charge me anything for using the Vado 3 for a week, which was exceptionally awesome!
Because you live in eco-groovy VT, you have options that most states don't have. Do you know about the VT E-Bike Library? VT has a system where VT residents can borrow an E-Bike for a long weekend for zero cost and get to know it. Based on your description of your situation and desires, a Specialized Como might be a good fit for you? You can borrow a Como or a Trek Verve and I forget what other bikes? So you could test ride a variety of E-Bikes for free.
Learn About E-Bikes
Local Motion provides a free E-Bike Lending Library program that allows borrowers to try out an e-bike and find out how these bikes can replace car trips and transform their daily transportation needs.
www.localmotion.org
VT also says that it's the only state in the US that has an E-Bike rebate. Be sure and take advantage of that! VT E-Bike rebate info is in that above link.
Finally, VT has some outstanding bike shops. Burlington, VT for instance has about every major brand of E-Bike out there for you to test ride. Some of the Gazelle's would be a great bike for you to test ride.
One of the hidden issues of internet E-Bikes is that most bike shops don't want to work on them, so you're pretty much on your own with upgrades, maintenance and repairs. That was one of the big reasons I bought the Vado. I wanted a bike that my LBS would stand behind when inevitable issues popped up. I didn't know that was an issue when I bought my RadCity.
That's all I got Amigo! I hope that helps. Again, best of luck!!
Thanks. Unfortunately my VT electric company doesnt offer rebates [but it is ecogroovy--first in the nation to go all-renewable] But i do have a shop nearby that will work on the bike--it put it together for me. i dont know that it would be up to a specialized up grade. The vado looks great but WOW, it is more than i can afford. I got the rad on sale--last years model closeout for $1k--so. I guess, i'll live with it for a few years and then move on, unless I can see a good upgrade possiblity. You seem very knowledgable so what do you think, does the Bolton 35a controller seem like a worthwhile option?Have you reached out to the folks at Rad? It sounds like this bike is fairly new, so the sooner you contact them the better it is, if you're going to try to return the bike. Rad has a no return policy, but they told me they sometimes make exceptions. This bike clearly isn't working for you. There will be a penalty return cost of some kind, but if you're kind, humble and honest and it's still basically new, they might make an exception to return it. The folks at Rad are pretty nice people.
There's lots of engineers and math whiz's on this forum who know better than me about gear math and road grade calculations, but I checked and the rear part of the RadCity drivetrain is not too flexible. The Altus derailleur maxes out at 34 teeth and the bike has an 11-34 freewheel vs cassette, so there's not as many replacement options.
But there might be some wiggle room with the front crank cog. Both the RadCity 3 & 4 have the same rear drivetrain with an 11-34 cog freewheel and Altus derailleur. But the RadCity 3 has a 46 tooth crank and the RadCity 4 has a 42 tooth crank. The closer that you can get to a 1-1 gear ratio, the easier the bike will be to pedal. I don't see why you can't replace the front crank cog to be a little smaller. If you don't know how to do that replacement you'll need to make friends with a local bike shop to help figure it out.
If you are able to return the bike or sell it & get a new one, with your very specific needs, I'd stay away from internet bikes and go with a bike that you can test ride first on your actual dirt road hill. Most local bike shops have rental fleets or loaner bikes. I upgraded from my RadCity in March and bought a Specialized Vado 4. (now I have two E-Bikes) Before I did that I "rented" a Vado 3 for a week, rode the heck out of it and proved that it was the bike I wanted. Because I bought the Vado 4, they didn't charge me anything for using the Vado 3 for a week, which was exceptionally awesome!
Because you live in eco-groovy VT, you have options that most states don't have. Do you know about the VT E-Bike Library? VT has a system where VT residents can borrow an E-Bike for a long weekend for zero cost and get to know it. Based on your description of your situation and desires, a Specialized Como might be a good fit for you? You can borrow a Como or a Trek Verve and I forget what other bikes? So you could test ride a variety of E-Bikes for free.
Learn About E-Bikes
Local Motion provides a free E-Bike Lending Library program that allows borrowers to try out an e-bike and find out how these bikes can replace car trips and transform their daily transportation needs.
VT also says that it's the only state in the US that has an E-Bike rebate. Be sure and take advantage of that! VT E-Bike rebate info is in that above link.
Finally, VT has some outstanding bike shops. Burlington, VT for instance has about every major brand of E-Bike out there for you to test ride. Some of the Gazelle's would be a great bike for you to test ride.
One of the hidden issues of internet E-Bikes is that most bike shops don't want to work on them, so you're pretty much on your own with upgrades, maintenance and repairs. That was one of the big reasons I bought the Vado. I wanted a bike that my LBS would stand behind when inevitable issues popped up. I didn't know that was an issue when I bought my RadCity.
That's all I got Amigo! I hope that helps. Again, best of luck!!
Banzai
Active Member
Something doesn't compute! Either the 10% incline is bogus or something is wrong with the bike. The last mile I ride before arriving at home is on a 10-15% incline. I also have a 2018 RADCity Step Thru with no conversions made to the running gear. It is virtually stock in that regard, and it is a real hot-rod. I fly up that hill at full speed and am having so much fun I usually just pass up my driveway because I don't want to stop yet. Very hard for me to believe your bike is that sluggish unless something is very wrong with it. The other thing is that I do that climb in PAS 5 and in 7th gear, which I never change when riding on city roads. The only time it slows down is when the first bar is flashing that it is time to charge the battery.
Also,
There was a good program called veloroutes that would tell you the incline degrees of any road. Unfortunately, it has been disabled, so if anyone knows of another similar program that is currently operational, don't keep it a secret.
Good Luck tallenvt
Also,
There was a good program called veloroutes that would tell you the incline degrees of any road. Unfortunately, it has been disabled, so if anyone knows of another similar program that is currently operational, don't keep it a secret.
Good Luck tallenvt
The $1K price on last years City was a great deal, if you make it work for you best to hold on to it. If you can't you could probably sell it for what you paid in a weekend. There are no new bikes available and not many used on Offer Up/ Craigslist either.
Pretty much any new ebike under $2K is back-ordered.
I have the upgrade on my Rover. I think the Bolton Upgrade ($219 shipped) is a good option, however some technical skill is needed to install it, definitely more work on a Rad-City compared to a Rover. My friend installed one on his Rad city Step thru last weekend. Big improvement on climbing ability.
The Bolton Upgrade is popular, at the moment you can only pre-order it.
7--the highest gear? impressive. let me guess, you arent in your 70s with a bad knee and a blown Achilles tendon. btw. I used veloroutes yesterday.
I don't know much about the Bolton system except watching his videos? It'll void your Rad warranty though, so if that's an issue, I certainly wouldn't do it. If you have an older RadCity then you have a 46 tooth crank. I really think the least expensive and easiest thing to try is change your crank to a smaller gear, like a 40 tooth gear. I looked at my RadCity today. I think you can just replace that one single gear with out replacing the whole crank. Ask your bike shop buddies. They'll know. Here's an article about single gear crank cross bikes. It explains what I'm suggesting. If I'm right, then the cost of this bike tweaking will be far less than any other option. I'd guesstimate $50 total. You'll go a little bit slower on the flats, but that's not your core issue. It's getting up that pesky dirt road hill.
www.velonews.com
One ring to rule them all? Single-chainring setup tips
If you want to expand your single-chainring 'cross bike's capabilities for year-round riding, here are some key tech tips.
www.velonews.com
legsofbeer
Active Member
As others have posted above, try out the "walk" mode. On my radrover as I'm walking it up a hill it basically drags me up the hill with me quickstepping next to it to keep up. I've also used walk mode to goose it up a flight of stairs when the elevator went out.
On level ground, seated on and ready to ride the bike, put the power level down to 1, then press and hold the down-arrow button. After about a second the motor should kick on with gentle power, maybe 60-80 watts. Enough to propel me at about 6mph on the flat while riding the bike. After doing that to know what it's going to do, try it walking the bike up your hill. You might get up it as quick that way as you would in 1st gear.
You dont know anyone in Vermont or near who could do an installation, do you?
I just want to thank all the kind people in this forum who took the time to try to help and gave me good advice without snark or condescension. I think i'm going to try to get used to the bike for a while and consider the Bolton 35a if i remain frustrated, it comes back in stock, and i can find help installing it. Again, thanks all.
RangerDave
Member
One last thought to rule out any issues with the bike:
Do you have a younger relative/friend/neighbor in good shape that could attempt riding the bike up the hill to see how it performs? That might give you a clue as to any motor or battery performance issues. If the person can handle the hill, that might also provide some info as to how much the Bolton kit may benefit you too. If they struggle too, it may not do much good for you. If they zip up the hill, it may be very promising.
Also give the walk-mode function a try. Ride the bike 50-100 yards down the hill and try walk-mode back up. You may be surprised how much it does help.
We’re always here to help! Keep us posted.
RangerDave
Do you have a younger relative/friend/neighbor in good shape that could attempt riding the bike up the hill to see how it performs? That might give you a clue as to any motor or battery performance issues. If the person can handle the hill, that might also provide some info as to how much the Bolton kit may benefit you too. If they struggle too, it may not do much good for you. If they zip up the hill, it may be very promising.
Also give the walk-mode function a try. Ride the bike 50-100 yards down the hill and try walk-mode back up. You may be surprised how much it does help.
We’re always here to help! Keep us posted.
RangerDave
thanks.
Tars Tarkas
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is thinking outside the box, or just stupid, but I live at the top of a similar, probably worse hill. I tried riding up a couple of times and ended up mostly walking, with walk-assist (not too bad). I should try again now that I'm a more experienced rider, but I just decided to do all of my riding away from home. I rack my bike elsewhere, ride, put it back on the rack and drive up my hill.
I know this could defeat a lot of the reason for having a bike for some people, but not everyone. I get in a lot of good riding.
I have a 2018 Rover, stock.
And I have to agree with whoever said that there are some hills that can't be ridden (by most ~70 year old mortals.) My hill would be a real challenge for a 22 year old. If you don't believe it, it's only because you haven't seen it.
TT
I know this could defeat a lot of the reason for having a bike for some people, but not everyone. I get in a lot of good riding.
I have a 2018 Rover, stock.
And I have to agree with whoever said that there are some hills that can't be ridden (by most ~70 year old mortals.) My hill would be a real challenge for a 22 year old. If you don't believe it, it's only because you haven't seen it.
TT
thanks. as they say, old age aint for sillies, and we can add steep hill bikers.
have you found a reasonably priced rack?Tars Tarkas
Well-Known Member
Reasonably priced? I don't know about that. I have the Hollywood fat tire rack for 2 bikes. It's a good rack -- I have thousands of road miles on it, but it's not a lot of fun lifting a 70 lb bike up on to it. I can do it, but I have my eyes open for a rack with a ramp. Finding any rack for a bike this heavy, let alone occasionally two bikes, is something to be careful about.
TT
TT
meant "sissies"thanks. as they say, old age aint for sillies, and we can add steep hill bikers.
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