Best FS XC/Trail eMTB under 10k? Levo, Kenevo, Rail, Haibikes (too many models to narrow down)

[Gee_Whiz]

Check out electric bike attack dot com. They have Scott Patron, Cannondale and more. Another bike to mention is Canyon Spectral.
With your budget it should be easy to find an emtb that is best for you.

Havent seen that site before, ill check em out; TY!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Whiz: Before you spend your money, find out what brand will service and warranty your future e-bike.
Bear in mind that in the case of a Bosch e-bike, there will be two parties to do that: your OEM, and Bosch E-Bike. Each of these parties will make the other guilty if anything goes wrong...
You won't hear more from me

 

[Nomad]

Actually anymore Carbon is extreme strong and durable. it will often take more punishment then aluminum.

I'm leary on Carbon because on EMTBs the weight doesn't seem to be that different but........ Some frames are fully warranty for riding even if you crash them for 2 years. I think some even lifetime for the origal owner. That certainly takes a lot of worry out of it. Anybody care to shed some on that?

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Whiz: Before you spend your money, find out what brand will service and warranty your future e-bike.
Bear in mind that in the case of a Bosch e-bike, there will be two parties to do that: your OEM, and Bosch E-Bike. Each of these parties will make the other guilty if anything goes wrong...
You won't hear more from me

haha ok willdo!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Some frames are fully warranty for riding even if you crash them for 2 years.

I like the "Specialized Crash Program" very much. Of course, the CF frame is warrantied. However, it NEVER happens that a CF frame cracks because it is brittle. It cracks because YOU, the user, crashed it. Therefore, we Specialized, offer that you buy a new CF frame at a discounted price...



Now, it is Canyon in Germany that sells their bikes online. Assume the CF frame cracked because it was YOU the user who crashed it. What next?
(I'm rolling from laughter!)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Now, the very last thing from me Whiz. Assume you have bought a Levo. Or, a Giant Trance E+. You are free to replace a chainring with another size. No problem!
Buy a Bosch e-bike. Want to swap a 32T chainring for a 38T one? You need to ask both your OEM and Bosch E-Bike for a permission!

I leave now

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Now, the very last thing from me Whiz. Assume you have bought a Levo. Or, a Giant Trance E+. You are free to replace a chainring with another size. No problem!
Buy a Bosch e-bike. Want to swap a 32T chainring for a 38T one? You need to ask both your OEM and Bosch E-Bike for a permission!

I leave now

Lol actually, question on chainring! If you have a 46t chainring on a hybrid bike (on a Powerfly FS4 or Tero for example).. Will this be really poor on trails or is it usable offroad and only rough if you need to go up very steep hills? I'm curious if you can use a standard FS bike as a commuter with a larger chainring and a trail bike for non extreme trails?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Lol actually, question on chainring! If you have a 46t chainring on a hybrid bike(on a Powerfly FS4 or Tero for example).. Will this be really poor on trails or is it usable offroad and only rough if you need to go up very steep hills?

One of my experiences:
My Vado 5.0 is powerful. Still, I struggled with a 48T chainring and a 42T granny gear at a 14% climb. Next year, I just swapped the 48T ring for a 38T one, and replaced the cassette with one having a 46T granny gear (my Vado allowed that). I was climbing 19% grade hills!

AFAIK, Powerfly FS4 has a proper 36T chainring, and a proper 46T granny gear.
Tero 5.0 is equipped with a 36T chainring and a 42T granny gear. It is OK for hills, too.
Both are perfect off-road.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

One of my experiences:
My Vado 5.0 is powerful. Still, I struggled with a 48T chainring and a 42T granny gear at a 14% climb. Next year, I just swapped the 48T ring for a 38T one, and replaced the cassette with one having a 46T granny gear (my Vado allowed that). I was climbing 19% grade hills!

AFAIK, Powerfly FS4 has a proper 36T chainring, and a proper 46T granny gear.
Tero 5.0 is equipped with a 36T chainring and a 42T granny gear. It is OK for hills, too.
Both are perfect off-road.

Do your pedals spin out above 20mph on your vado with the smaller chainring?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do your pedals spin out above 20mph on your vado with the smaller chainring?

Not, but my cadence is rather good. I was reaching 25 mph with violent pedalling. Yet, a roadie won such a race
Do not expect proper e-MTB's to be speed demons though. These are not made for road. 20 mph off-road means very fast.

 

[Nomad]

Actually, after doing some research based on the insights posted here, I think im looking for the best cost:components:battery size ratio on a Trail bike under 10k.

I think alloy or aluminum would be preferential, but carbon seems to be pretty prevalent on the higher end bikes; the issue seems to be, all of the better bikes are strictly carbon, while the alloy or aluminim versions usually have older software, a compromise in components or battery wattage etc. 99Spokes is a nice site that I came across that compares similar styles bikes and simplifies the differences though.

Right now it seems the Levo Comp alloy would be towards the top, or the Rail 9.8 XT Carbon (shimano version). Next tier would be the Haibike AlllMtn5 (alloy) and the Cannondale Moterra Neo Carbon 1or2 and I do like the Haibikes as well as @Mike TowpathTraveler mentioned, but there are SO many options from them, and I would have to source those from eBay.

Just a thought if your looking for higher end componets you could upgrade later or in some cases actually get them now and still get them cheaper. I like the aluminum my self but have no experience with Carbon.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Not, but my cadence is rather good. I was reaching 25 mph with violent pedalling. Yet, a roadie won such a race
Do not expect proper e-MTB's to be speed demons though. These are not made for road. 20 mph off-road means very fast.

Understood; Thank you

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Whiz: these pictures tell a story:

It was a 14% climb, a Strava segment called "Specialized Roll". My brother rode a Giant Trance E+2 Pro (which is a proper e-MTB, 38-50 gearing). He reached the mountain pass first. Then, arrived I on the Vado (48-42 gearing). The poor roadie was still fighting, and I had a lot of time to park my e-bike and walk to take a picture The roadie had to walk his bike up for a while!

Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro is a real climber!

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Just a thought if your looking for higher end componets you could upgrade later or in some cases actually get them now and still get them cheaper. I like the aluminum my self but have no experience with Carbon.

Thats a good point; Carbon does seem perfectly suitable based on many bikereview sites; but aluminum just seems more.. logical for the offroad application

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Whiz: these pictures tell a story:

View attachment 114676

View attachment 114677

It was a 14% climb, a Strava segment called "Specialized Roll". My brother rode a Giant Trance E+2 Pro (which is a proper e-MTB, 38-50 gearing). He reached the mountain pass first. Then, arrived I on the Vado (48-42 gearing). The poor roadie was still fighting, and I had a lot of time to park my e-bike and walk to take a picture The roadie had to walk his bike up for a while!

Haha ok so gearing.. VERY important on incline.. more so than top speed potential

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Haha ok so gearing.. VERY important on incline.. more so than top speed potential

Yes. It is not an e-MTB you want if the speed is your objective.

 

[BlackHand]

Bear in mind that in the case of a Bosch e-bike, there will be two parties to do that: your OEM, and Bosch E-Bike. Each of these parties will make the other guilty if anything goes wrong...

Also bear in mind that Stefan has no direct experience with this and shouldn't be framing a possibility as a certainty. I had no problem getting Bosch warranty coverage on my Haibike.

and replaced the cassette with one having a 46T granny gear (my Vado allowed that). I was climbing 19% grade hills!

Everyone is different. When I replaced the cassette on my bike I ended up with one that went to 42T instead of the 46T it came with originally(all mid drives allow this, not just Vado's) because that is what was available at the time. I never really used the 46T granny gear on pavement and in my limited off road climbing I find myself more limited by traction than anything else on steep hills. If I had a emtb instead of a trekking bike I would probably find more use for a 46T or 50T granny gear.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Regards to carbon, please seek out the English and German Pedelec forums and look for the forum threads regard the new carbon Haibike All Mountain series. I recall a good number of threads about the rear triangle cracking in the area of the rear shock suspension mounting point (cantilever)... (which is some kind of metal bushing glued in the carbon triangle). Fwiw, the few All Mountain bikes and that 27.5 dual suspension mtb for 2022 that were brought into the USA were all aluminum frames. Finding one would be the holy grail though.

I'd advise to dig deep into these forum threads, in particular the forum area specific to each brand of manufacturer. There, along with those Euro mtb pedelec forums, will better show you what is working, where are the problem areas in each brand of e-mtb.

For now, off the top of me head, watch out for the Shimano motors, especially the newer EP8 models; alot of failures after very, very minimal miles. For that, go to the MTBR ebikes forum and look for the failed Shimano motor threads. Know that Yamaha has about zero internal motor parts to make repairs if you are the self-repairing type. Know that Yamaha, Bosch and Brose batteries are expensive as heck, are well lived and absolutely nobody in the secondary battery repair market will touch them due to unavailable internal parts and the fact that the BMS inside the battery must be "Kept alive with power" while the cells are replaced. This accounts as to why these battery repair centers will just show you out the door when you show up with one of those batteries.

Beware of an older Specialized with the Brose drive as those motors of a few years back had an internal motor belt that failed. It is repairable, but only by a qualified Specialized dealer. And so much time has passed that the charge would likely go back to the second hand owner. Know that Bosch's may require software glitches be repaired by a qualified Bosch tech with a new download of an updated program. Yamaha does not have that problem when we are talking about the earlier PW or PWx series. The latest Yamaha though, may. The Chinese Bafang seems to be coming on strong in the market place, but they too, are now a Can-Bus system. And the Bafangs are usually fitted on bikes that you will be buying direct from China, aside from players like QuietKat or Luna. These ebikes are all getting more complicated and because of that, they are more dealer dependent on repair.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Regards to carbon, please seek out the English and German Pedelec forums and look for the forum threads regard the new carbon Haibike All Mountain series. I recall a good number of threads about the rear triangle cracking in the area of the rear shock suspension mounting point (cantilever)... (which is some kind of metal bushing glued in the carbon triangle). Fwiw, the few All Mountain bikes and that 27.5 dual suspension mtb for 2022 that were brought into the USA were all aluminum frames. Finding one would be the holy grail though.

I'd advise to dig deep into these forum threads, in particular the forum area specific to each brand of manufacturer. There, along with those Euro mtb pedelec forums, will better show you what is working, where are the problem areas in each brand of e-mtb.

For now, off the top of me head, watch out for the Shimano motors, especially the newer EP8 models; alot of failures after very, very minimal miles. For that, go to the MTBR ebikes forum and look for the failed Shimano motor threads. Know that Yamaha has about zero internal motor parts to make repairs if you are the self-repairing type. Know that Yamaha, Bosch and Brose batteries are expensive as heck, are well lived and absolutely nobody in the secondary battery repair market will touch them due to unavailable internal parts and the fact that the BMS inside the battery must be "Kept alive with power" while the cells are replaced. This accounts as to why these battery repair centers will just show you out the door when you show up with one of those batteries.

Beware of an older Specialized with the Brose drive as those motors of a few years back had an internal motor belt that failed. It is repairable, but only by a qualified Specialized dealer. And so much time has passed that the charge would likely go back to the second hand owner. Know that Bosch's may require software glitches be repaired by a qualified Bosch tech with a new download of an updated program. Yamaha does not have that problem when we are talking about the earlier PW or PWx series. The latest Yamaha though, may. The Chinese Bafang seems to be coming on strong in the market place, but they too, are now a Can-Bus system. And the Bafangs are usually fitted on bikes that you will be buying direct from China, aside from players like QuietKat or Luna. These ebikes are all getting more complicated and because of that, they are more dealer dependent on repair.

Thank you much for the insights! Regarding batteries, would you happen to know if its possible to retrofit a larger capacity battery in any bike with a lower cap one? For example the allMtn5 comes with a 625 Powertube, but Trek has 750 powertubes now; can these just be popped in? Also, are Haibikes known to be difficult to work on or should any competent LBS be able to service one, aside from the electronics?

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Thank you much for the insights! Reagarding batteries, would you happen to know if its possible to retrofit a larger capacity battery in any bike with a lower cap one? For example the allMtn5 comes with a 625 Powertube, but Trek has 750 powertubes now; can these just be popped in? Also, are Haibikes known to be difficult to work on or should any competent LBS be able to service one, aside from the electronics?

GW, you're welcome. What I know, I got from being a daily, loyal reader to this site's forums as well as the bike tests that Court (and Troy) have done. This place is the most welcoming site I've found, regards to anything ebikes. A great crowd, good people.

Off the top of my head, not familiar with the downtube mounted batteries. I seem to recall reading something that an original Bosch 500wh intube battery can be upgraded to a 625 by taking out a spacer inside. But PLEASE, do not take my guestimations as gospel.

But you nailed a point that is worth asking: have these downtube battery installations allow some room for retrofitting to a larger battery? That is a question you have to get straight before you plunk down any dollars for a newer ebike.

My hope is somebody here with that knowledge will chime in and advise you.

My 2016 Yamaha powered H-Bike Full FatSix has the external battery, which I much prefer. But the Market thought otherwise, going with the in-tube design. The Germans make a 750wh external battery that will fit my bike, no problem. The Catch 22? They won't sell to the US!