Best FS XC/Trail eMTB under 10k? Levo, Kenevo, Rail, Haibikes (too many models to narrow down)

[steve mercier]

I came across this vide of a guy shredding a rough looking trail on a Trek Rail 9.9 and it made me curious as to what would be considered the best Full Suspension Trail bike currently?

Also, when would a heavier bike be more ideal than a lighter carbon bike? or a lighter motor like the Levo SL vs a torquey motor like those on the Haibikes or Rails?

I am not the ultimate source on this topic by any means but here are two Ebikes that appeal to me. IF it is only for trail you could use this : https://www.norco.com/bikes/e-mountain/e-trail/ BUT if you want an awesome FS this is the one that I covet the most. https://moustachebikes.com/en/electric-bikes/samedi-29-game/samedi-29-game-10/

 

[BlackHand]

Thank you much for the insights! Regarding batteries, would you happen to know if its possible to retrofit a larger capacity battery in any bike with a lower cap one? For example the allMtn5 comes with a 625 Powertube, but Trek has 750 powertubes now; can these just be popped in? Also, are Haibikes known to be difficult to work on or should any competent LBS be able to service one, aside from the electronics?

The 750 powertubes are only compatible with the new bosch System3 bikes, so no not at this time. Anything Bosch that comes with a smaller battery is running on System2.

Trek does differentiate some models by selling higher specced ones with a 625wh battery and lower specced versions on the same frame using a 500wh battery with a spacer added. That's more the exception than the rule though.

My Haibike uses standard parts, I don't see why a good LBS wouldn't work on them, other than the Bosch stuff if the LBS is not a Bosch dealer. But YMMV. Haibike does have a house brand they use for a lot of parts, but at least in my experience they don't really have any proprietary parts like some brands.

 

[BlackHand]

The Allmtn 10 has a Flyon drive. I didnt think any of those are available in N.A.?

 

[fooferdoggie]

One of my experiences:
My Vado 5.0 is powerful. Still, I struggled with a 48T chainring and a 42T granny gear at a 14% climb. Next year, I just swapped the 48T ring for a 38T one, and replaced the cassette with one having a 46T granny gear (my Vado allowed that). I was climbing 19% grade hills!

man if you had a bosch. I have a 46t chainring and only go down to 34t in back and I can do 15% grade no problem on tour or eco if I am feeling good.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

The Allmtn 10 has a Flyon drive. I didnt think any of those are available in N.A.?

I think you are correct on that one, BH. HaibikeUSA never carried a Flyon model. I did see one in the US on sale at Ebay and they wanted a super premium price for it.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

I am not the ultimate source on this topic by any means but here are two Ebikes that appeal to me. IF it is only for trail you could use this : https://www.norco.com/bikes/e-mountain/e-trail/ BUT if you want an awesome FS this is the one that I covet the most. https://moustachebikes.com/en/electric-bikes/samedi-29-game/samedi-29-game-10/

I really like the Moustaches, they were covered in a review at ebike-mtb, but they dont seem to exist in the states at alll.. Nice lookign options both on both those and the Norco

 

[Gee_Whiz]

The 750 powertubes are only compatible with the new bosch System3 bikes, so no not at this time. Anything Bosch that comes with a smaller battery is running on System2.

Trek does differentiate some models by selling higher specced ones with a 625wh battery and lower specced versions on the same frame using a 500wh battery with a spacer added. That's more the exception than the rule though.

My Haibike uses standard parts, I don't see why a good LBS wouldn't work on them, other than the Bosch stuff if the LBS is not a Bosch dealer. But YMMV. Haibike does have a house brand they use for a lot of parts, but at least in my experience they don't really have any proprietary parts like some brands.

Much appreciated! I'm curious why the Haibikes have a lower max weight than some other brands, they seem to have by FAR the lowest actually at 120.0 kg max.. and thats an aluminum frame.. so odd

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Geewiz!
Not sure if this helps. Here are couple ebikes that I am seriously considering.
I have an order for a Biktrix Monte Capro from a supported dealer in Hawaii. But I'm not really a believer of the Bafang motor and controller and battery setup. If it is not in my possession by end of February. I'm cancelling, and buy one of these bikes shown on the pics. The dealer where I purchased my current ebike is Haibike supported. Which means they can service the spitzing or even deristrict the motor to perform like the Spitzing M1 R. I must also add that the M1 Spitzing offers 920wh and 1000wh battery.

Ironically that Haibike is what kinda got me looking into this line of bikes, then I found as someone mentioned that particular drive cant be shipped to the US.. the nm is soo much higher than anything outside of the bafangs too

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Geewiz!
Not sure if this helps. Here are couple ebikes that I am seriously considering.
I have an order for a Biktrix Monte Capro from a supported dealer in Hawaii. But I'm not really a believer of the Bafang motor and controller and battery setup. If it is not in my possession by end of February. I'm cancelling, and buy one of these bikes shown on the pics. The dealer where I purchased my current ebike is Haibike supported. Which means they can service the spitzing or even deristrict the motor to perform like the Spitzing M1 R. I must also add that the M1 Spitzing offers 920wh and 1000wh battery.

I'm curious about the Monte Capro; are you going to use this as a trail rider or a general all purpose bike? I was looking into a similar bike from Frey: https://shop.frey.bike/products/am1000-v6?variant=41193052831917 but the weight and the power of the motor has me thinking it may be a bit much for what we have out here on the eastcoast. I recently had an HT1000 from Frey with the 620 and it was a BEAST

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Ah ok that makes sense; I know biktrix has/had some models that get up into the 70s, same as Frey, but that Monte Capro is nice

 

[Prairie Dog]

What type of riding will you be doing? Lots of great suggestions from the members here and all deserve merit as most/all of them would give you the ability to ride most any trail that you might encounter.

I may not have as much riding experience under my belt as others have but the time that I’ve logged in the saddle of my 2021 Giant Trance X E + 2, I’ve garnered a great deal of respect and admiration for this capable alloy all-round trail bike. It’s been ridden all year round, in sub zero temps and on a variety of trails from technical single track to some gnarly down hill mtn runs. The 2022 carbon Trance versions are now available as well as its big brother, the new Giant Reign E+. Fox’s live valve also makes it debut on the Advanced E +0 in the US.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-trance-x-advanced-eplus-2022

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-reign-eplus-2022

I ride with a couple of buddies, one who owns a Specialized Levo CC and the other a Yeti 160e. Both are great bikes - light, stiff, nimble, very flickable and for those reasons, both guys clearly love their carbon versions. As for me, I’ll likely continue riding my alloy Trance but the new carbon Advanced is really lookin’ pretty sweet!

Here's video footage of us on a couple of rides.

 

[BlackHand]

This is a nice roundup if you haven't already seen it. Does a nice job of describing each bike's personality

The best e-mountainbike of 2023 – The biggest group test yet:⁠ 30 e-mountainbikes head-to-head

What’s the best eMTB of 2022? We tested the 13 most exciting eMTBs of the season and tell you what you need to consider before buying.

ebike-mtb.com

 

[Gee_Whiz]

What type of riding will you be doing? Lots of great suggestions from the members here and all deserve merit as most/all of them would give you the ability to ride most any trail that you might encounter.

I may not have as much riding experience under my belt as others have but the time that I’ve logged in the saddle of my 2021 Giant Trance X E + 2, I’ve garnered a great deal of respect and admiration for this capable alloy all-round trail bike. It’s been ridden all year round, in sub zero temps and on a variety of trails from technical single track to some gnarly down hill mtn runs. The 2022 carbon Trance versions are now available as well as its big brother, the new Giant Reign E+. Fox’s live valve also makes it debut on the Advanced E +0 in the US.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-trance-x-advanced-eplus-2022

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-reign-eplus-2022

I ride with a couple of buddies, one who owns a Specialized Levo CC and the other a Yeti 160e. Both are great bikes - light, stiff, nimble, very flickable and for those reasons, both guys clearly love their carbon versions. As for me, I’ll likely continue riding my alloy Trance but the new carbon Advanced is really lookin’ pretty sweet!

Here's video footage of us on a couple of rides.

Hmm.. these are interesting.. EMBN seems to like them as well..

Do you notice any motor drag if the motor is off? My riding would be similar to what you have in the two videos to start, as well as some non extreme downhill; These Giant bikes look like a nice alternative to Levo's if they can be found for sale in the states; Appreciate the options and videos!

 

[Gee_Whiz]

This is a nice roundup if you haven't already seen it. Does a nice job of describing each bike's personality

The best e-mountainbike of 2023 – The biggest group test yet:⁠ 30 e-mountainbikes head-to-head

What’s the best eMTB of 2022? We tested the 13 most exciting eMTBs of the season and tell you what you need to consider before buying.

ebike-mtb.com

Yeah I was reading through this, and like the Merida 8-10k's in particular, but someone warned against the Shimano motors earlier this thread. Article breaks down alot of eMTB failpoints and potential upgrades areas though which is greeat

 

[PDoz]

Gee whiz, can you give us a clearer idea of what type of riding you intend to do ( green / double black diamond? Flowy natural terrain or machine cut? Etc ) Include preferences for ride duration / elevation ?

Once you've finished, the answer is simple - the bike you can find at an lbs which provides decent support , from a manufacturer that has a decent warranty.

ps Carbon fibre - I was scared senseless , but the more research I did the more comfortable I became. A big brand carbon frame adds about $1 k to price, for that you only save 500-800 gms, but get a more refined feel ( how do you quantify that) , plus the ability to have it repaired professionally if / when sh1t happens. Some brands offer lifetime frame warranty on their carbon frames AND back it up. Carbon can still break - rear triangles on the levo sl , for example - but if you see the crazy landing needed.. I'm not worried.

 

[PDoz]

Now for some gross generalisations :

Best INITIAL purchase value:
close call between giant trance and merida e160 - choose the price / spec level you prefer, and motor feel / brand support. I really like the merida, it's more playful than the trance , although it's getting towards the end of it's model run and the geometry is not as " up to date" ( a good thing for the average old fart imho)

You have to ride it to understand category - the superlights.

Orbea rise - pick the price / spec / delivery delay that you are comfortable with and enjoy. To be honest, I'd go carbon merido e160 before an alloy orbea rise, only 1 kg in it, but if I found a shop with a carbon orbea rise parked between a levo sl and kenevo sl my brain would implode.

Levo / kenevo SL - if you frequently ride alone or with fit regular cyclists . If you enjoy the down more than up, and appreciate subtlety. This things are mind blowing. They defy physics - my 320 wh battery somehow gets better range than my mates Merida e160 with 650 wh - and then I have a range extender back at the car. ONLY 35 nm yet I'm only 4/5 bike lengths behind at the top of the hill....then down hill my bike is 25% lighter! Specialized warranty, but also specialized price - plus the stock parts are cr@p for the price. No big deal - it's an excuse yo upgrade.


And then we have trek - expensive, heavy, but tough. If you intend to ride every day through rough country and keep the bike for 3/4 years - buy trek

 

[Stefan Mikes]

, but someone warned against the Shimano motors earlier this thread.

One Danny MacAskill rides a Shimano powered Santa Cruz e-MTB.
Shimano motors are mostly found in e-MTBs, as that's their habitat.

man if you had a bosch. I have a 46t chainring and only go down to 34t in back and I can do 15% grade no problem on tour or eco if I am feeling good.

It all depends on the rider's physical shape. Bosch CX motor is not stronger than Specialized 1.2s, 1.3, 2.1 or 2.2 motors.

Merida

As I can hear, Merida is an unobtainium in the U.S. Am I wrong?

As for me, I’ll likely continue riding my alloy Trance but the new carbon Advanced is really lookin’ pretty sweet!

hese Giant bikes look like a nice alternative to Levo's if they can be found for sale in the states;

As I owned a 2020 Trance E+ 2 Pro, I can only confirm Giant e-MTBs are good (and the only flaw is the RideControl app), and these are more affordable than Specialized counterparts.

the answer is simple - the bike you can find at an lbs which provides decent support , from a manufacturer that has a decent warranty.

@PDoz: thank you very much for your informed comments! Could you clarify the matter of the cracked Levo SL CF rear triangle?

 

[PDoz]

Haibike - check local warranty support

Norco - worthy of a second look. You get to choose the battery / price to suit, they have reasonable spec for price, and are about a year ahead of giant in terms of geometry

Focus - a budget trek. You get the benefit of trek motor, but the rear end / geometry is a year behind trek

 

[PDoz]

@PDoz: thank you very much for your informed comments! Could you clarify the matter of the cracked Levo SL CF rear triangle?

The levo sl , plus the previous generation levo have a reputation of cracking the upper rear triangle arm IN EXTREME circumstances. The guys who manage this are also the guys who snap rear shock shafts - ie they bottom out the rear end frequently. The arm cracks about half way along, usually a spiral crack so it gives rather than giving way. People then complain that specialuzed supply black ones under warranty instead of stocking every color option.... Most of these riders now ride kenevos so you have to search back a couple of years to find the threads.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So you say PDoz that CF frames are basically safe and strong except of extreme situations?
Just a question: One of crashes that often occurs to me is a violent fall to the side with me on the bike. Is that a scenario that might jeopardize a CF e-bike? What do you think?