BBSHD on Salsa Blackburrow?

[MCQ MT]

Looking for info on anyone's attempt to install Bafang BBSHD on Salsa Blackburrow

 

[m@Robertson]

I can give you this much: I came within a hair of buying a Blackborow frame kit but I was expecting to NOT be able to put a BBSHD on it. the reason being the curvature of the down tube down at the bottom bracket. That will result in the motor hanging straight down.

What I was expecting to do was use something like a Cyclone or a Cyc and mount the motor either behind the seat tube (that horizontal brace on the one side being a possible impediment) or take advantage of the curve that torpedoes the BBSHD and instead mount the other style motor above the down tube and inside of the triangle.

But then a really expensive USA-made titanium frame came up cheap on EBay and I jumped thataway instead . My next opportunity went to a Big Fat Dummy and I never explored the Blackborow further, other than to see you can get some really good prices on complete bikes at the end of a model year at, say, REI.

 

[MCQ MT]

Thanks for the feedback. The curved downtube at the BB is also my concern. I spent about 3 weeks searching for the Blackburrow and found a new complete build available. Its a lot of $$$$ but I really like the bike. I also just found a Titanium Salsa Mukluk on Craigslist for a god deal and I am now considering that for a mid drive......... so does anyone have any experience with "Bafanging" the Mukluk Ti?

 

[tomjasz]

That will result in the motor hanging straight down.

Below the chainring?

 

[tomjasz]

Google reveals all, "unfortunately I think those who tried installing a Bafang BBSHD on the Blackborrow ran into problems due to the angle created by the curved downtube where it meets the BB. Too bad they didn't stick with traditional geometry at this specific point. I would love to know for sure if the Bafang BBSHD is a no go, then I would stop searching for one"

 

[m@Robertson]

Below the chainring?

Yup. This is a common caveat for eMTB conversions with an HD. You have to have a straight down tube connection to the BB or you have this issue to contend with.

You can see the problem with this BBSHD'd Framed Alaskan. It will be worse on a Blackborow. But the Alaskan in this link illustrates well. Look for the shot of it hanging for a great angle. People still do Alaskans because the problem is not TOO bad. I almost did one myself from a frame kit a few years back.

Framed Alaskan Bluto X7 + BBSHD + Luna Mighty Mini 30Q = The Fat Bastard - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

After a year of experimenting with 1970s enduro bikes and finding them finicky and generally awful, I decided to try and build an electric fat bike. I wanted a bike

electricbike.com

 

[m@Robertson]

Found one. Given the kickstand and folding baskets (!) I would say this owner is using it as a street cargo bike only, in which case the motor position is not a dealbreaker.

Go to AliBaba and search on 'titanium cargo bike frame' and you can see this clone and one other designed for an Ultra motor, I believe. I have seen a BBSHD build using this frame and with a similar clone rear rack.

 

[MCQ MT]

Yes, I also saw this one and now agree, its nice to learn that others have a common concern. I have ditched teh Blackburrow idea

Google reveals all, "unfortunately I think those who tried installing a Bafang BBSHD on the Blackborrow ran into problems due to the angle created by the curved downtube where it meets the BB. Too bad they didn't stick with traditional geometry at this specific point. I would love to know for sure if the Bafang BBSHD is a no go, then I would stop searching for one"

Yeah, the Blackburrow checks al the other boxes , but that downtube is just too risky for me. If you still want to try it the shop called Angry Catfish in MN has three of them , I think all mediums

 

[MCQ MT]

I committed to a the Salsa Ti Mukluk yesterday. I will probably get a trailer if needed for the cargo space I am "losing" in not getting the Blackburrow. Racks front and rear on the Mukluk may be sufficient.

 

[reed scott]

Found one. Given the kickstand and folding baskets (!) I would say this owner is using it as a street cargo bike only, in which case the motor position is not a dealbreaker.

View attachment 87522

Go to AliBaba and search on 'titanium cargo bike frame' and you can see this clone and one other designed for an Ultra motor, I believe. I have seen a BBSHD build using this frame and with a similar clone rear rack.
View attachment 87523

That's an amazing frame. But the motor position definitely puts it in the 'paved' road only category. The extra bracing of the rear triangle puts me in mind of the Frey frames that are the only frames I have seen with some version of it. Perhaps if you could put 29 inch wheels on it .....

 

[MCQ MT]

That's an amazing frame. But the motor position definitely puts it in the 'paved' road only category. The extra bracing of the rear triangle puts me in mind of the Frey frames that are the only frames I have seen with some version of it. Perhaps if you could put 29 inch wheels on it .....

I am completely sold on 29" for my human powered cross country bike , but for cargo I prefer 26 or even 24 (like the Benno bikes use ) . It helps to keep center of gravity low and (unless your 6'2") it mostly provides a much better experience getting on and off the bike. Benno has went a step further and makes a step thru frame with angled top tube. There bikes are some of my favorites, We have the Benno Carry On cargo. I considered the Benno boost E bike , but can't handle the $5 K price tag.

 

[tomjasz]

This is a common caveat for eMTB conversions with an HD. You have to have a straight down tube connection to the BB or you have this issue to contend with.

Interesting. Having the motor at or very near the chainring base level wouldn't discourage me. And given the number of calls and emails I respond to by potential kit builders...well it seems not a huge issue. Chainline and the Q factor bother me more.

Thanks

 

[m@Robertson]

Interesting. Having the motor at or very near the chainring base level wouldn't discourage me.

Yeah agreed. After all the chainring is the real bottom so who cares if the motor matches it or even is a bit further out. On balance I'd rather whack the motor anyway, up to a point.

On my Bullitt the motor hangs straight down. No help for it. But the HD and the 02 are still very common mods on that platform as given the street use of a bakfiets-style cargo bike there's still plenty of clearance.

I am completely sold on 29" for my human powered cross country bike , but for cargo I prefer 26 or even 24 (like the Benno bikes use ) . It helps to keep center of gravity low and (unless your 6'2") it mostly provides a much better experience getting on and off the bike. Benno has went a step further and makes a step thru frame with angled top tube. There bikes are some of my favorites, We have the Benno Carry On cargo. I considered the Benno boost E bike , but can't handle the $5 K price tag.

Same here. My eMTB funbike is a 29er with a Cyc X1. 29x2.5" tires are more than fat enough to tackle anything I'm brave enough to try and I love the wagon-wheel size.

On the other hand for serious cargo, I worked my way up to full fat with 90mm rims and 26x4.8" tires (in the pic are 80mm / 4.3"). When pedaling a bike that is 560 lbs-plus with rider (and no I am not 400 of those ), I really appreciate the stability and bump-soak of the tires and strength of the wheels, which I built for strength (carbon fiber deep dish, so a circular triangle). At that weight its only safe (less unsafe) to ride at about 8 mph. But you are a runaway slow motion freight train so anything in your way is getting rolled over whether you like it or not.