BBS02 750w dissapointingly unreliable
- Thread starter midmotorman
- Start date
Matt Hughes
New Member
There have been multiple posts mentioning the throttle behaving like an on/off switch. I wanted to let you know that this can be changed within the controller software. You need a USB cable, a PC, and the software. You can get a cable from this link http://www.empoweredcycles.com
You can download the USB drivers if needed and the 8fun software from this same link. If you email me [email protected] i will send you a file containing the parameters to get the throttle to respond linearly like a normal throttle should, or i may make it available for download on the same link page provided above, haven't decided yet. Keep in mind this file is a .el file extension and is only to be used with 750 watt BBS02 mid drive motors. It is set to tame the current to 18amps, provide full throttle in PAS 1-9 and for max speed to be ignored while using the throttle. Hope this helps some of those who have controllers programmed for throttle to behave like a switch.
You can download the USB drivers if needed and the 8fun software from this same link. If you email me [email protected] i will send you a file containing the parameters to get the throttle to respond linearly like a normal throttle should, or i may make it available for download on the same link page provided above, haven't decided yet. Keep in mind this file is a .el file extension and is only to be used with 750 watt BBS02 mid drive motors. It is set to tame the current to 18amps, provide full throttle in PAS 1-9 and for max speed to be ignored while using the throttle. Hope this helps some of those who have controllers programmed for throttle to behave like a switch.
LouisQ
Member
"Sorry currently out of stock."
Odd, considering the largest wholesaler, 3, tell me they are not able to supply cables from Bafang. Secondly the cable shown is horribly short for this chore IMO. Making a cable is quite easy and not at all daunting. Next, I'd like to point out that many a controller has been ruined by bad programming. Not to scare anyone off but this is NOT an area for experimentation. Major resellers have stopped selling controllers except to customers previously purchasing full motor kits from them due to the false warranty claims by those frying their reprogrammed controllers. Lastly wasn't this the company that got all the attention by claiming there was a 1000W coming and now pedaling stock here?
Odd, considering the largest wholesaler, 3, tell me they are not able to supply cables from Bafang. Secondly the cable shown is horribly short for this chore IMO. Making a cable is quite easy and not at all daunting. Next, I'd like to point out that many a controller has been ruined by bad programming. Not to scare anyone off but this is NOT an area for experimentation. Major resellers have stopped selling controllers except to customers previously purchasing full motor kits from them due to the false warranty claims by those frying their reprogrammed controllers. Lastly wasn't this the company that got all the attention by claiming there was a 1000W coming and now pedaling stock here?
Matt Hughes
New Member
We did sell out of the cable, but have more arriving 5-21-15 if shipment arrives on time from 8fun.
Yes, these USB cables come from 8fun, I only buy from the manufacturer.
If the USB cable is too short for your needs, there is an extension cable available here, http://www.empoweredcycles.com
According to the sales rep that i communicate with at 8fun it is true that they are going to produce a 90-110mm bottom bracket bbso2, they did mention they may make a 1000 watt version as well, but we will have to wait and see if they really do it or not.
I am not "pedaling stock", i was invited here by Court to share with people how to fix the issue with throttles acting like an on/off switch. I could just hide and ignore the issue, but instead I decided to get to the bottom of it, find a solution, and share with others.
All files needed to reprogram are on the website USB cable page, no need to email me for the file.
Yes, these USB cables come from 8fun, I only buy from the manufacturer.
If the USB cable is too short for your needs, there is an extension cable available here, http://www.empoweredcycles.com
According to the sales rep that i communicate with at 8fun it is true that they are going to produce a 90-110mm bottom bracket bbso2, they did mention they may make a 1000 watt version as well, but we will have to wait and see if they really do it or not.
I am not "pedaling stock", i was invited here by Court to share with people how to fix the issue with throttles acting like an on/off switch. I could just hide and ignore the issue, but instead I decided to get to the bottom of it, find a solution, and share with others.
All files needed to reprogram are on the website USB cable page, no need to email me for the file.
George S.
Well-Known Member
Hi,
There have been a couple of problems with the BBS02. One is the 'hot' chain with derailleur systems, and there are several solutions. The other problem is with the throttle and programming the controller in general.
It seems like EM3ev and Lectric Cycles sell the BBS02 with a pre-programmed controller and throttle. If you buy the BBS02 somewhere else, you may end up with a throttle that doesn't work very well. If that's what you are selling, I don't see any gripe against you. But it's clear going into the controller creates warranty issues.
I'm on board with a Kickstarter bike that includes the BBS02, but they rate it as a '350w' version. Not sure how it would work, if I ended up wanting to add a fully functional throttle. I've asked the campaign people to add a throttle option, something where they would do the programming. But I'd like to know how this would work, if I did it myself.
I've seen a review by Court where the BBS-2 wasn't programmed for throttle in the PAS 0, or off position. It seems like you would want a 'throttle only' setting.
Two vendors are selling the BBS02 with a reprogrammed throttle, so it's clearly something people want. Going into the controller isn't a great option for people with zero experience.
There have been a couple of problems with the BBS02. One is the 'hot' chain with derailleur systems, and there are several solutions. The other problem is with the throttle and programming the controller in general.
It seems like EM3ev and Lectric Cycles sell the BBS02 with a pre-programmed controller and throttle. If you buy the BBS02 somewhere else, you may end up with a throttle that doesn't work very well. If that's what you are selling, I don't see any gripe against you. But it's clear going into the controller creates warranty issues.
I'm on board with a Kickstarter bike that includes the BBS02, but they rate it as a '350w' version. Not sure how it would work, if I ended up wanting to add a fully functional throttle. I've asked the campaign people to add a throttle option, something where they would do the programming. But I'd like to know how this would work, if I did it myself.
I've seen a review by Court where the BBS-2 wasn't programmed for throttle in the PAS 0, or off position. It seems like you would want a 'throttle only' setting.
Two vendors are selling the BBS02 with a reprogrammed throttle, so it's clearly something people want. Going into the controller isn't a great option for people with zero experience.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Hi George!
Going into the controller is really quite easy. It's not at all dangerous as long as you have good parameters to work from. I'd be happy to share safe settings. The same used by EM3ev and Lectric Cycles. They are nearly identical. Making a controller connection is also very easy. The problems have come form those "experts" that have "experimented" with settings not fully understanding the pitfalls. Other programming problems have come from users trying to do things on the cheap. Understanding the limitations of the motor is important to the success. The 350W, in my experience have been very robust. My only concern with the motors being sold is the build date. There have been revisions. Mechanical as well as with the controllers. The mechanical changes may have more to do with manufactruing rather than function. The controller problems are well documented and staying within specification or lowering amperage in some cases will improve 750W reliability. Congratulations on the 350W purchase. My 350W perform better than I expected. I have actually set my speed levels 5-7MPH lower than the motor is capable of. I just don't need all the speed. My crank forward frames will all run 20MPH for many miles and not get close to overheating. I have throttle override set on all PAS levels. Just as Lectric, EM3ev, and California eBikes supply. Contrary to other reports I'm told it's not clear that Bafang will produce a 100MM. That's from the largest reseller in the same city as Bafang. There have been some changes in the gear manufacturing as well as the case design. (YOCH appears to have the old design). Several sources are claiming intimate knowledge and yet those closest seem to be not as clear. The USA made 100MM kits are higher quality than the 68MM shafts produced by Bafang. Watch and read https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com for current developments in kits.
If you need help with a cable George just holler. I'll get you a loaner. First class postage tracked is just $2.50!
Regards,
Tom
Going into the controller is really quite easy. It's not at all dangerous as long as you have good parameters to work from. I'd be happy to share safe settings. The same used by EM3ev and Lectric Cycles. They are nearly identical. Making a controller connection is also very easy. The problems have come form those "experts" that have "experimented" with settings not fully understanding the pitfalls. Other programming problems have come from users trying to do things on the cheap. Understanding the limitations of the motor is important to the success. The 350W, in my experience have been very robust. My only concern with the motors being sold is the build date. There have been revisions. Mechanical as well as with the controllers. The mechanical changes may have more to do with manufactruing rather than function. The controller problems are well documented and staying within specification or lowering amperage in some cases will improve 750W reliability. Congratulations on the 350W purchase. My 350W perform better than I expected. I have actually set my speed levels 5-7MPH lower than the motor is capable of. I just don't need all the speed. My crank forward frames will all run 20MPH for many miles and not get close to overheating. I have throttle override set on all PAS levels. Just as Lectric, EM3ev, and California eBikes supply. Contrary to other reports I'm told it's not clear that Bafang will produce a 100MM. That's from the largest reseller in the same city as Bafang. There have been some changes in the gear manufacturing as well as the case design. (YOCH appears to have the old design). Several sources are claiming intimate knowledge and yet those closest seem to be not as clear. The USA made 100MM kits are higher quality than the 68MM shafts produced by Bafang. Watch and read https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com for current developments in kits.
If you need help with a cable George just holler. I'll get you a loaner. First class postage tracked is just $2.50!
Regards,
Tom
Last edited:
George S.
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tom,
The bike I was committed to, a CF bike, dropped the BBS02 for the new Max. I left the campaign at that point. I appreciate the info about what Lectric and EM3ev are doing, because I know it isn't rocket science. Since I'm back to building it, someday, I might stick with the two vendors who know what they are doing. I don't know how much Bafang wants to sell stuff into the US, where everyone tends to push things to the limit. The guys at Karmic had set up the BBS02 for low power and were using the NuVinci. I was sorry they dropped it for the unknown Bafang Max.
I guess Bafang will be happy to supply the BBS02 for a while. The Kickstarter thing wouldn't have shown up until October. I might be able to just build something over the summer. It definitely would not be a fat bike, just a well balanced hybrid type that could climb hills. Not fast. The Bafang is cheap enough to play with. That fat bike site does have interesting stuff. He got a little tied up with that Storm thing, as I recall.
The bike I was committed to, a CF bike, dropped the BBS02 for the new Max. I left the campaign at that point. I appreciate the info about what Lectric and EM3ev are doing, because I know it isn't rocket science. Since I'm back to building it, someday, I might stick with the two vendors who know what they are doing. I don't know how much Bafang wants to sell stuff into the US, where everyone tends to push things to the limit. The guys at Karmic had set up the BBS02 for low power and were using the NuVinci. I was sorry they dropped it for the unknown Bafang Max.
I guess Bafang will be happy to supply the BBS02 for a while. The Kickstarter thing wouldn't have shown up until October. I might be able to just build something over the summer. It definitely would not be a fat bike, just a well balanced hybrid type that could climb hills. Not fast. The Bafang is cheap enough to play with. That fat bike site does have interesting stuff. He got a little tied up with that Storm thing, as I recall.
LouisQ
Member
George,
I've built quite a few using crank forward bikes. I see Lectric is now doing the same thing with Townie setups. So far I've used Trek Pure Dlx (3spd), KHS Smoothies (7spd), and Electra Townies (IGH and Derailleur versions). I'm actually older than the listed birthdate on this forum. I'm in my mid to late 60's and have a lot of health problems. (My listed birthdate is inaccurate, I consider revealing birth dates a security breach)As such I have difficulty getting off and on most bicycles. The flat foot, crank forward design makes mounting and dismounting easy. I'm also much better balanced and secure with a flat foot stance. I consider the semi recumbent platform the ideal BBS0x configuration. All of my customers, I do it for fun and little profit, are oldsters needing not so aggressive rides. I've done a few 750W but prefer the 350W, believing it has fewer issues and provides more than enough power for the bikes I'm using. I was also a beta tester with the Gearsensor units initially and run one now. Another over played imaginary problem IMO. As you have noted many users want to wring every ounce of speed out of every motor. I have taken many risks in my youth that I'm unwilling to take now. I assume my bicycles, Smoothies, brakes are very capable at pedaling speeds but their power diminishes at the speeds 750w units are capable of. One of my current personal 3 BBS01 is set up with 52tx11t gearing and weighs in at 57lbs. It motors along at a solid 25MPH. The KoolStop pads just barely make a safe stopping distance at WOT. I've now limited my speed to 20mph.
I've built quite a few using crank forward bikes. I see Lectric is now doing the same thing with Townie setups. So far I've used Trek Pure Dlx (3spd), KHS Smoothies (7spd), and Electra Townies (IGH and Derailleur versions). I'm actually older than the listed birthdate on this forum. I'm in my mid to late 60's and have a lot of health problems. (My listed birthdate is inaccurate, I consider revealing birth dates a security breach)As such I have difficulty getting off and on most bicycles. The flat foot, crank forward design makes mounting and dismounting easy. I'm also much better balanced and secure with a flat foot stance. I consider the semi recumbent platform the ideal BBS0x configuration. All of my customers, I do it for fun and little profit, are oldsters needing not so aggressive rides. I've done a few 750W but prefer the 350W, believing it has fewer issues and provides more than enough power for the bikes I'm using. I was also a beta tester with the Gearsensor units initially and run one now. Another over played imaginary problem IMO. As you have noted many users want to wring every ounce of speed out of every motor. I have taken many risks in my youth that I'm unwilling to take now. I assume my bicycles, Smoothies, brakes are very capable at pedaling speeds but their power diminishes at the speeds 750w units are capable of. One of my current personal 3 BBS01 is set up with 52tx11t gearing and weighs in at 57lbs. It motors along at a solid 25MPH. The KoolStop pads just barely make a safe stopping distance at WOT. I've now limited my speed to 20mph.
George S.
Well-Known Member
Louis,
I think with a mid-drive you use the gears to get up hills and the rest of the time the power is fine. I ride with a watt meter, and mostly stay below 200 watts. The motor makes riding into our standard 20+ mph winds practical. That's what an ebike does for me.
It's standard to see that 750w version of the BBS 02 rated up to 1200 w. You need that for speed. The speed isn't worth the risks, to me. I don't really like to pass a fit guy on a road bike doing 17 mph on the bike paths. Mostly I will hold back.
The Smoothie is a nice bike. The conversion I did with a Mac 350 is a pretty standard hybrid. It's front drive, so I lost the suspension fork for a steel fork, torque arm. I like the front drive and now that I am testing it on the steeper hills, the mid-drive may not be needed. I could make a light mid-drive with great balance.
Thanks for the info. I have noticed they still use the BBS01, in a 35oW configuration. Lectric Cycles doesn't off the gear sensor with the 350W, so you must be right about that.
I think with a mid-drive you use the gears to get up hills and the rest of the time the power is fine. I ride with a watt meter, and mostly stay below 200 watts. The motor makes riding into our standard 20+ mph winds practical. That's what an ebike does for me.
It's standard to see that 750w version of the BBS 02 rated up to 1200 w. You need that for speed. The speed isn't worth the risks, to me. I don't really like to pass a fit guy on a road bike doing 17 mph on the bike paths. Mostly I will hold back.
The Smoothie is a nice bike. The conversion I did with a Mac 350 is a pretty standard hybrid. It's front drive, so I lost the suspension fork for a steel fork, torque arm. I like the front drive and now that I am testing it on the steeper hills, the mid-drive may not be needed. I could make a light mid-drive with great balance.
Thanks for the info. I have noticed they still use the BBS01, in a 35oW configuration. Lectric Cycles doesn't off the gear sensor with the 350W, so you must be right about that.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
The single biggest problem I had with my gearsensor was moisture. Lectric chooses to mount the sensor in what may be the worst spot from our experience. There were 5 of us that tested the early release. Gearsnesor admitted moisture was a problem and claims to have solved it. Still I question the choice of locations. Time will tell, electric fat bike has given the sensor a thumbs up but that was after "a few" miles. I'm waiting for more reports after some significant miles have been put on. My own experience with a handlebar height location is positive. I just can't see the cost as being worth it as an add on. I will admit it's a nice addition to a kit, especially an IGH. I'd rather have seen Cycle Analyst style interface features rather than a Gearsensor. I continue to follow the fellow that did come up with a CA2.3 interface, and playing with the CA3 with the shunt on one of my rides. I think the datalogger is next.
Sadly there are continued reports of controller failures and even in some more recent builds. It seems to have developed around wanted a throttle at 0 PAS.
While I'm all for being able to access the controller to program I also think it's a nightmare. Having sold kits now too I will not warranty any kit that has had adjustments made by the purchaser without my approval. Bafang has made mistakes with their software. How in the world can casual users have the knowledge to poke around. It got frustrating enough for EM3ev to stop controller sales to customers that hadn't also purchased motors. To many warranty claims. Hell there are enough problems without adjusting programming blindly. That said there are some really great improvements coming that haven't been announced yet. There has been an improvement in the BB seal and the case design has changed to 7 screw. A company name YOCH has come out with a competing unit but so far it appears to be Bull from then in terms of improvements. Sloppy workmanship according to my contacts and the design looks like they are using old Bafang tooling to build the case. Good news for us is Bafang is making improvements but really crappy steel is being revealed by those installing 100mm kits. The kits are fine the steel tubing is crap. A shaft design change has shown up too. Another rip off copy of the 100MM kits made in India has also shown up. The claims are higher quality steel at lower prices. I guess people still are willing to buy the London Bridge. Still I wouldn't trade the BBS series for any other mid. The others are either much more complex, limited access, or just not nearly as robust as in the BEWO. For a company that is number one, Bafang sure comes off as a bunch of dolts sometimes.
I think the lack of sensor on the 350W relates more to the lack of interest in the 350W in the USA. Everyone here seems more interested in stupid speeds on inadequate braking systems. That's not a nice way to put it but I really get tired of the power rangers and the constant preoccupation with speed. I'm afraid we'll see EU style regulations once states realize they're missing out on taxes and registration. Many homebuilt bikes are really more motorcycle than bicycle. It's just a matter of time before that 60MPH MXUS on a Walmart frame in involved in a disaster. BAD for the eBike world and the future of the biz.
BTW I'm now in my second month with the Grin Satiator Charger. Best investment ever. One charger all sorts of options for 7 batteries. Being able to charge to 80% can lead to much longer battery life. Now all I need a a small frog for battery storage.
My 2cents
Sadly there are continued reports of controller failures and even in some more recent builds. It seems to have developed around wanted a throttle at 0 PAS.
While I'm all for being able to access the controller to program I also think it's a nightmare. Having sold kits now too I will not warranty any kit that has had adjustments made by the purchaser without my approval. Bafang has made mistakes with their software. How in the world can casual users have the knowledge to poke around. It got frustrating enough for EM3ev to stop controller sales to customers that hadn't also purchased motors. To many warranty claims. Hell there are enough problems without adjusting programming blindly. That said there are some really great improvements coming that haven't been announced yet. There has been an improvement in the BB seal and the case design has changed to 7 screw. A company name YOCH has come out with a competing unit but so far it appears to be Bull from then in terms of improvements. Sloppy workmanship according to my contacts and the design looks like they are using old Bafang tooling to build the case. Good news for us is Bafang is making improvements but really crappy steel is being revealed by those installing 100mm kits. The kits are fine the steel tubing is crap. A shaft design change has shown up too. Another rip off copy of the 100MM kits made in India has also shown up. The claims are higher quality steel at lower prices. I guess people still are willing to buy the London Bridge. Still I wouldn't trade the BBS series for any other mid. The others are either much more complex, limited access, or just not nearly as robust as in the BEWO. For a company that is number one, Bafang sure comes off as a bunch of dolts sometimes.
I think the lack of sensor on the 350W relates more to the lack of interest in the 350W in the USA. Everyone here seems more interested in stupid speeds on inadequate braking systems. That's not a nice way to put it but I really get tired of the power rangers and the constant preoccupation with speed. I'm afraid we'll see EU style regulations once states realize they're missing out on taxes and registration. Many homebuilt bikes are really more motorcycle than bicycle. It's just a matter of time before that 60MPH MXUS on a Walmart frame in involved in a disaster. BAD for the eBike world and the future of the biz.
BTW I'm now in my second month with the Grin Satiator Charger. Best investment ever. One charger all sorts of options for 7 batteries. Being able to charge to 80% can lead to much longer battery life. Now all I need a a small frog for battery storage.
My 2cents
I am very impressed with the kit I brought. The kit is fantastic, found fairly easy to install. I brought froma company called Electric Bike Conversions who were very helpful with a slight issue I had with the installation. I would highly recommend this company for anyone looking to buy one of these mid drive kits.
LouisQ
Member
EM3ev has upgraded Mosfet's in all 750W controllers. No more heat problems. Be aware that lugging this motor is responsible for many of the problems. But it will definitely hold up to customary use with this upgrade. BTW My BBS01's haven't missed a beat. I also now have a Bafang clone BBM02 Yoch. It uses old 5 screw case. Like early BBS0x's.
I'm on Battery #2.
The old battery started playing up around 4500km.
It was a 48v 10Ah LiFeP04. It got weaker and weaker. Eventually cutting out all the time.
Initially I thought this was a controller problem.
Replaced the controller. Seemed to go ok for 500m then back to the old problem.
Thinking that I had blown the replacement controller I got another.
This was where I really messed up.
Controller #3 was for a 1500w bike. I wanted to make sure I didn't blow it again.
I also wanted one that could just plug into the existing serial lines.
I miss counted the serial lines.
The new controller had 17 (not 16) so the plug did not fit.
Had to solder in the new set of serial lines.
Got it all back together - same problem.
Then bought a 48v 21AH NMC battery.
It is wonderful. Goes faster and will happily run at full power continuously.
Only disadvantage - is has a noisier fan in the charger.
4800km and the motor is still going strong.
The old battery started playing up around 4500km.
It was a 48v 10Ah LiFeP04. It got weaker and weaker. Eventually cutting out all the time.
Initially I thought this was a controller problem.
Replaced the controller. Seemed to go ok for 500m then back to the old problem.
Thinking that I had blown the replacement controller I got another.
This was where I really messed up.
Controller #3 was for a 1500w bike. I wanted to make sure I didn't blow it again.
I also wanted one that could just plug into the existing serial lines.
I miss counted the serial lines.
The new controller had 17 (not 16) so the plug did not fit.
Had to solder in the new set of serial lines.
Got it all back together - same problem.
Then bought a 48v 21AH NMC battery.
It is wonderful. Goes faster and will happily run at full power continuously.
Only disadvantage - is has a noisier fan in the charger.
4800km and the motor is still going strong.
Adrian
Active Member
Apparently Lectric cycles and Em3ev speced the same mosfets from Bafang so Bafang decided to use them in all new 750W BBS02 controllers - so as long as the BBS kit was made from now on, no matter the supplier, the kit will have the new mosfets. I guess it'll take some months for the new supply to trickle through and there'll probably be old stock around for a while.
I had one controller go on my BBS02 - ordered last autumn. The replacement is doing fine.
I have a 750W BBS02 on a bike with 7-speed rear derailleur. I haven't got a lot of Km on it, but a couple of times now I have seen the following behavior and wondering if anyone can tell me what's causing it and what I can do about it.
- Generally I don't use the throttle
- However, a couple of times, I have used it, not from a dead stop but when I was going slowly in the city.
- I haven't "leaned on it", but just a bit of throttle
- Essentially, everything dies - power, display, everything
- Hitting the power on the C965 does nothing
- I get back on the air by removing the battery briefly, replacing it, and powering back up
- I am told that my Max Current parameter is set to 25amps and that I may have exceeded that briefly and this is how it would behave? Is that really how it would behave?
- I don't know what the other parameters are set at, but I do have a programming cable , and one of these days I will look at it and perhaps make some changes. I do know it is set for no throttle in PAS 0.
- Anyone have any idea what the cause/solution is? (other than "don't use the throttle")
Thanks for the reply. The batteries are 13S4P of Samsung INR18650-29E Cells - 2,850 mAh rated at 2C discharge which I guess translates to about (4 x 2.850 x 2) = around 22 amps. Not sure how the BMS is programmed, but you might be on to something with the max amps settings down to 20 or so. I'm thinking it's either that or the controller is seeing LVC and shutting down?
LouisQ
Member
Have a spare throttle? Highly recommended! I suspect a fault there. Go to electric fat bike. Use Karl's programming guide. Try a new throttle. $18 delivered first class mail from California eBikes. Throttles die often. If it's a deeper problem you have a recommended spare. Do not experiment with programming. That is the only potential for a problem. Save the setting. No reseller need know you programmed. Just don't be dumb and dishonest and think you're smarter than the guide. Simples.
My 750W BBS02 is over 18 months old and has done about 6500km (foldable Land Rover frame).
I'm on the second battery. I killed the first one after about 4500km.
There have been a lot of problems with the bike - very few of them electrical.
Does your bike die immediately you hit the throttle or after a short delay (2-5 sec)?
Do you see the power gauge drop prior to it cutting out?
If you are going fast, then shift to low gear, then hit the throttle (ie no load) does it die?
If you change to a lower power setting and use the throttle will it shut down?
Do the shut downs occur at the start of the ride or more often later in the ride?
My guess is battery. Unfortunately this may be difficult to repair and expensive to replace.
It's likely one of the cells is bad.
As the battery is asked for more power, one group of 4 starts to show a low voltage and the controller shuts the whole thing down.
My first battery (10Ah LiFePO4) died like this.
It's really hard to find the bad cell.
With no load, all of the groups will show normal voltage as their buddies cover for them.
A bad battery problem often has a slow onset.
So, for now the battery doesn't shut down unless you use the throttle.
As the battery deteriorates, it will start to fail on PAS only.
Then gradually on lower PAS levels.
That is, if it is the battery.
My new battery is a 21AH NCM.
It's 7kg but it makes the bike go faster.
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