Battery for Tongsheng TSDZ2 750w

[Sasquatch260]

Thanks to all the help I’ve received on this forum, I’ve decided to purchase a Tongsheng TSDZ2 48v 750w for my Giant Revel 29er MTB.

I am purchasing through eco-eBike. However, I want to purchase the battery somewhere else so I can get it more quickly. (there is a long wait at eco-eBike).
My questions are:
1. Do I need to go with the Jumbo Hailong? (this is what eco-eBike sells with the TSDZ2).
2. And if not, is there a better (maybe cheaper?) battery that would be good which I could purchase off of Amazon or somewhere that I can get it more quickly?

 

[AHicks]

Your first decision needs to be regarding how big a battery you want - from a range perspective - in amp hours.

I can share a mistake I made on the first bike I built (my first e-bike). With thoughts of all day rides in the back of my head, I bought a battery that was WAY bigger than I needed because I didn't know any better. One big factor (literally!) was the range my butt would tolerate. Turned out, I was generally all done for a day at about 20 miles. This monster battery I bought was good for 50 miles or better - more than double what this butt needed. The extra cost involved, in both dollars spent, and toting around that extra capacity's weight any time I rode the bike, were both big wastes....

 

[EMGX]

It probably most depends on how and where you ride. I have a 48v 750w tsdz2 on a 700c hybrid ridden on paved roads and gravel trails. Battery currently in use is a Amazon sourced btrpower 48v 10ah battery that has 71 miles on a single charge with resting voltage of 46v. The last 3 miles included a 700+ft elevation gain during which the battery voltage slumped to 45v and I think even touched 44v working up the steepest grades. When on flats I often ride with no assist but use assist freely when riding into the wind or up hills or when I'm getting tired. I have other cheap Amazon sourced batteries, one other (48v 15ah) for this bike and a couple 36v (10ah and 15ah) for a 36v 500w tsdz2 and a 36v geared front hub bike. All of the batteries have cost ~$200 or less, performed flawlessly and haven't burned my house down. The oldest of the batteries is close to 3 years old by now if I remember correctly.

 

[EMGX]

Your donor bike looks like a great choice for a TSDZ2 conversion. Which control/display did you choose? I have a C3 display on my 48v/750w, it has 5 levels of assist, I have rarely used the highest level. Level 3 and 4 give plenty of kick right from a stop when that is needed. Couple things I found is that the chainline isn't the greatest with the stock 5mm offset chainring. I got one of the 42t 10mm offset chainrings from ecocycles that makes for a significanly improved chainline when in the lowest gear. That said I also recently installed one of their 34t 5mm offset chainrings on my hybrid bike. Have to be careful/deliberate shifting into the lowest gear otherwise the chain has come off of the chainring a couple times when rapidly shifting gears. I do like the range with a 34t chainring and 12-42 cassette for the hilly area that I ride though. 34/42 will climb just about anything even with assist off.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Your first decision needs to be regarding how big a battery you want - from a range perspective - in amp hours.

I can share a mistake I made on the first bike I built (my first e-bike). With thoughts of all day rides in the back of my head, I bought a battery that was WAY bigger than I needed because I didn't know any better. One big factor (literally!) was the range my butt would tolerate. Turned out, I was generally all done for a day at about 20 miles. This monster battery I bought was good for 50 miles or better - more than double what this butt needed. The extra cost involved, in both dollars spent, and toting around that extra capacity's weight any time I rode the bike, were both big wastes....

Good advice! I’ll keep that in mind for sure. I’ve been thinking I should invest in a more comfortable seat as well.

 

[Sasquatch260]

It probably most depends on how and where you ride. I have a 48v 750w tsdz2 on a 700c hybrid ridden on paved roads and gravel trails. Battery currently in use is a Amazon sourced btrpower 48v 10ah battery that has 71 miles on a single charge with resting voltage of 46v. The last 3 miles included a 700+ft elevation gain during which the battery voltage slumped to 45v and I think even touched 44v working up the steepest grades. When on flats I often ride with no assist but use assist freely when riding into the wind or up hills or when I'm getting tired. I have other cheap Amazon sourced batteries, one other (48v 15ah) for this bike and a couple 36v (10ah and 15ah) for a 36v 500w tsdz2 and a 36v geared front hub bike. All of the batteries have cost ~$200 or less, performed flawlessly and haven't burned my house down. The oldest of the batteries is close to 3 years old by now if I remember correctly.

One of the things I want to do is commute back-and-forth to my work. This is helpful because Although most of the ride is flat, I actually have a fairly steep 800 foot rise in elevation at the end of the commute. … I’m glad I can maybe consider one of the cheaper batteries that I find on Amazon. I guess I’ll just make sure it has good reviews. I suppose I’ll just go with a 48 volt.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Your donor bike looks like a great choice for a TSDZ2 conversion. Which control/display did you choose? I have a C3 display on my 48v/750w, it has 5 levels of assist, I have rarely used the highest level. Level 3 and 4 give plenty of kick right from a stop when that is needed. Couple things I found is that the chainline isn't the greatest with the stock 5mm offset chainring. I got one of the 42t 10mm offset chainrings from ecocycles that makes for a significanly improved chainline when in the lowest gear. That said I also recently installed one of their 34t 5mm offset chainrings on my hybrid bike. Have to be careful/deliberate shifting into the lowest gear otherwise the chain has come off of the chainring a couple times when rapidly shifting gears. I do like the range with a 34t chainring and 12-42 cassette for the hilly area that I ride though. 34/42 will climb just about anything even with assist off.

I was thinking of going with the XH 18 that comes with one of the packages at Eco cycle. I need to research this a little more though. Do you think I should go with the C3 instead?
That’s helpful to know about the chain ring stuff. I’m hoping to talk to someone At Eco cycles tomorrow before I order. I’ll definitely ask them about that.

 

[tomjasz]

Don’t cheap out on a battery. Careful, many available on the cheap are a HUGE mistake.

 

[EMGX]

One of the things I want to do is commute back-and-forth to my work. This is helpful because Although most of the ride is flat, I actually have a fairly steep 800 foot rise in elevation at the end of the commute. … I’m glad I can maybe consider one of the cheaper batteries that I find on Amazon. I guess I’ll just make sure it has good reviews. I suppose I’ll just go with a 48 volt.

The cheap Amazon sourced batteries that I bought - two btrpower (a 36v 10ah and a 48v 10ah, both cost ~$170), one QZF 36v 15ah (that I've had the longest) and one 48v 15ah that I don't remember the "brand" all had excellent reviews. I didn't post Amazon reviews for any of them but if I had I would have rated them all as excellent also. Maybe someday one of the batteries will disappoint me but that hasn't happened so far.

 

[tomjasz]

Too funny. Even the Chinese trade association warns buyers about cheaply built batteries and their risks. Please use good sense and charge safely.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Don’t cheap out on a battery. Careful, many available on the cheap are a HUGE mistake.

Any recommendations from Amazon??

 

[EMGX]

I was thinking of going with the XH 18 that comes with one of the packages at Eco cycle. I need to research this a little more though. Do you think I should go with the C3 instead?
That’s helpful to know about the chain ring stuff. I’m hoping to talk to someone At Eco cycles tomorrow before I order. I’ll definitely ask them about that.

I have the XH 18 paired with a 36v 500w version - it has 4 levels of assist and I like the twist function better than push button for choosing assist levels on the fly but it annoyingly shuts down power after a few minutes if assist is turned off. Then you have to power the unit back up without pedaling while the torque sensor calibrates and that is a bother while riding and especially since I often prefer to ride with assist off. The C3 has 5 levels of assist and is more programmable, it doesn't shut off while being ridden even with assist off. But toggling assist levels with the button isn't as natural as the xh18 twist control. The C3 also displays battery voltage.

 

[tomjasz]

Any recommendations from Amazon??

Run…

To, @Jenny Mao a member here. Good source!

 

[EMGX]

Sasquatch, you should go with whatever battery you feel comfortable with. I considered that I had never seen a report of catastrophic failure of a cheap battery directly reported by anyone on this site nor on reviews of inexpensive ebikes from Costco or Walmart. If Costco can sell an ebike for $300 you can imagine how much of that was allocated for the battery. tomjasz has reported a 5% unspecified failure rate for inexpensive batteries in his experience which also means a 95% not failure rate. I don't doubt that Jenny Mao sells a great battery but I saw one of her posts where she noted a $170 shipping charge which is the entire cost of one of the btrpower batteries that I purchased on Amazon, delivered within a week, free shipping.

Here is the larger 48v 15ah battery in a $8 Amazon sourced frame bag on my tsdz2 hybrid bike. With the smaller 10ah battery I cinch up the bag with a couple velcro straps. Works like a charm.

 

[tomjasz]

5% is HUGE if you’re one of the 5%.

Glued together Ann crammed cells stuffed into an undersized Shark case is not a good idea.

$170 shipping has to be an error or multiple batteries.

Even the Chinese trade association warns against catastrophic failure and improper battery care and procedures.

yes, I managed to NOT have a failure of my UPP battery but a $50,000 insurance claim didn’t get paid by an insulated UPP.

most of these batteries are still shipped out of compliance with standing rules and regulations for hazmat shipping.

 

[George S.]

It's not simple. It's hard to say how well the Chinese vendors respect the international shipping rules. Hobby King used to throw LiPo cells into a box with no padding the the PO flew them down here. Not ideal, since LIPO is very volatile.

I bought a $100 48/15 from Liito Kala. It took 3 months, so ocean shipping. The battery showed up and I never knew how it got from LA to me. Maybe they use private shippers. Amazon doesn't seem to ship for BTR or UPP.

I bought some LFP cells from Battery Hookup, put 32 in a 16s2p configuration. The LFP is not explosive. It is considered safe. Still, the shipping was pretty hefty, ground FDX. I've been testing the battery. When it was run down (more than I thought) I could get 13 amps out of it. I'll have to test it and find a case. It's not a big battery, on 7.6AH, but that's how far I ride and I have a small reserve pack.

Lfp has a long cycle life. People plan for 2,000 cycles. It holds voltage well. It depends on how long you ride and how much battery you use. The BTR LFP on Amazon (cheaper than on Ebay) come in various sizes. But they get bulky and a bit heavy.

The Liito Kala pack I bought for 100 is going strong after 100 rides and 1,000 plus miles. It is small and light. It uses 21700 cells which are easier to configure efficiently. I don't know where the thing is going. An outfit like LK can mass produce the packs using cells at super wholesale prices. Jehu Garcia, Jag35 sells Chinese 21700 for around $3,50 each. LK is at 2 bucks a cell in my pack. But if you buy 10,000 cells, the costs drop. Face it, there are craft builders of super performance packs and there are commodity producers who want to drive the price down. You need to figure out what you are getting and what you want. Building a pack is not that hard. They make way too much it. I guess there is a forum where old timers tell a lot of stories. I think it's Endless Fear, but I'm not sure about that. There's a lot of bad news. I'm sure of that. There's more balance here, thought it's not really a DIY place.

 

[tomjasz]

Building a pack is not that hard. They make way too much it. I guess there is a forum where old timers tell a lot of stories. I think it's Endless Fear, but I'm not sure about that. There's a lot of bad news. I'm sure of that. There's more balance here, thought it's not really a DIY place.

FFS George. You've been putzing around for a decade and there's no reason for the sarcasm and disinformation.
NO ONE on ES is trying to fear monger. Those of us in daily contact and with scores of customer contacts weekly are on the front lines hearing and seeing the horror stories. There is a LOT to building a sane and same pack.

 

[PedalUma]

I mess with a lot of dumb stuff like taking down giant trees by myself with no one around to call for help and moving them on a 22% slope. But messing with batteries is scary. Familiarity starts to melt one's guard. Like the guy who would hang out with grizzlies. That was cool until Tim Treadwell and his girlfriend were eaten alive while the audio of the action was captured on their video camera. It is true they were not fully eaten, 15% remained.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Does anyone in the states sell / ship the TSDZ2 (other than eco-ebike.com)

 

[tomjasz]

eco-ebike.com

Are they out of stock? They are a good reseller!!