Bafang Ultra Programing Cable

[Ebiker33]

The default programming / profile is great for almost everyone. The primary reason riders buy the cable is to get regular firmware upgrades! In 2020 there have been 4 firmware updates rolled out. Most are for new features and optimizations, some for new assist curves, and one for revised UI.

A majority of riders who want to program - they actually create trail / offroad profiles. In a few cases, riders wanted to de-restrict throttle for their non-WW bikes.

That appears to be the extent of the customizations - just for reference.

Interesting, I am thinking of all the ultra's out there that don't get those updates, or is that just for your X1 version via Innotrace?
If not perhaps this actually confirms the video of the BAFANG teams still testing the ultra in tour video's even though it's been in production for awhile and is way past the Beta testing phase.

 

[pushkar]

Interesting, I am thinking of all the ultra's out there that don't get those updates, or is that just for your X1 version via Innotrace?

I am not sure I understand the question - If you asking if our firmware will work with Stock Bafang controller? If so then the answer is no, it will not work with stock bafang controller.

If not perhaps this actually confirms the video of the BAFANG teams still testing the ultra in tour video's even though it's been in production for awhile and is way past the Beta testing phase.

Is there a video of bafang team testing firmware? Link please.

 

[Ebiker33]

I am not sure I understand the question - If you asking if our firmware will work with Stock Bafang controller? If so then the answer is no, it will not work with stock bafang controller.


Is there a video of bafang team testing firmware? Link please.

To be more specific it was just riders testing the ultra, like 10 of them, when asked why, they said they were still trying to fine tune it for different Ebikes as everybody was riding different Ebikes, I assumed that it takes you back to firmware and the hex codes, but they still haven't got to where the X1 is regardless, but at least they were trying.
I can't find the video it was about a year ago I watched it, and it is only about 30 seconds in a 1/2 hour clip, so hard to find.

So to be clear for myself and everybody, the 4 firmware updates for 2020 do not come from Bafang, but from Innotrace for the X1 controller?
And if that is true then Innotrace not only starts at a better place, but their tech stays at the cutting edge with all these updates, whereas Bafang doesn't, you get what you get when you buy the stock unit, and maybe it was tinkered with by the Ebike company but once you own it, your locked into that system with no hope of upgrades.
If this is all true, this gives the X1 with the cable and program a huge advantage over everybody else out there, it means your 2020 motor can be just as advanced on the firmware side as one purchased new in 2022.

 

[reed scott]

To be more specific it was just riders testing the ultra, like 10 of them, when asked why, they said they were still trying to fine tune it for different Ebikes as everybody was riding different Ebikes, I assumed that it takes you back to firmware and the hex codes, but they still haven't got to where the X1 is regardless, but at least they were trying.
I can't find the video it was about a year ago I watched it, and it is only about 30 seconds in a 1/2 hour clip, so hard to find.

So to be clear for myself and everybody, the 4 firmware updates for 2020 do not come from Bafang, but from Innotrace for the X1 controller?
And if that is true then Innotrace not only starts at a better place, but their tech stays at the cutting edge with all these updates, whereas Bafang doesn't, you get what you get when you buy the stock unit, and maybe it was tinkered with by the Ebike company but once you own it, your locked into that system with no hope of upgrades.
If this is all true, this gives the X1 with the cable and program a huge advantage over everybody else out there, it means your 2020 motor can be just as advanced on the firmware side as one purchased new in 2022.

Thanks for this clarification. Pushkar will be getting about a 1ft cubed box from me in the not too distant future. Probably after I order a new motor from him. I like the idea of keeping an extra motor in back-stock.

 

[pushkar]

To be more specific it was just riders testing the ultra, like 10 of them, when asked why, they said they were still trying to fine tune it for different Ebikes as everybody was riding different Ebikes, I assumed that it takes you back to firmware and the hex codes, but they still haven't got to where the X1 is regardless, but at least they were trying.
I can't find the video it was about a year ago I watched it, and it is only about 30 seconds in a 1/2 hour clip, so hard to find.

Oh ok.. this is helpful. Yeah, our (Innotrace) firmware is specific to the Archon X1 controller. The physical controller is different, and the new firmware is not compatible with stock Bafang controller.

So to be clear for myself and everybody, the 4 firmware updates for 2020 do not come from Bafang, but from Innotrace for the X1 controller?

Yes

And if that is true then Innotrace not only starts at a better place, but their tech stays at the cutting edge with all these updates, whereas Bafang doesn't, you get what you get when you buy the stock unit, and maybe it was tinkered with by the Ebike company but once you own it, your locked into that system with no hope of upgrades.
If this is all true, this give the X1 with the cable and program a huge advantage over everybody else out there, it means your 2020 motor will can be just as advanced on the firmware side as one purchased new in 2022.

You put it better than I could.That is exactly how we see it too.

 

[voidedwarranty]

Hey @pushkar let me know when that CANbus compatibility is ready to go. I'm itching to put in an order

 

[pushkar]

Hey @pushkar let me know when that CANbus compatibility is ready to go. I'm itching to put in an order

Behind at the moment. We will have initial test results by early Jan. Assuming no big issues we are looking at end March / Early April for production.

 

[Ebiker33]

Hey @pushkar let me know when that CANbus compatibility is ready to go. I'm itching to put in an order

Do you need CANbus for the Sondors Ultra or is it something you just want?

 

[pushkar]

Do you need CANbus for the Sondors Ultra or is it something you just want?

I'd be curious to know about Sondors too ... not sure if they are using CAN .. but their latest shipping date is June 2021. Based on what we see, we will be ready with CAN by then.

 

[Ebiker33]

I'd be curious to know about Sondors too ... not sure if they are using CAN .. but their latest shipping date is June 2021. Based on what we see, we will be ready with CAN by then.

There could be some serious upgrade business for you from Sondors customers in 2021, if those that do report back have great success with the X1.
It's a way to be at the entry point of the market with the best motor, after another around $1000 dollars, for those on a tighter budget.

 

[pushkar]

There could be some serious upgrade business for you from Sondors customers in 2021, if those that do report back have great success with the X1.
It's a way to be at the entry point of the market with the best motor, after another around $1000 dollars.

We are seeing an uptick for upgrades, esp since it is not peak riding season.

I expect to see Sondors users send it over too - though based on what a couple of Sondors customers have told me, I believe their battery is rated for up to 19A continuous and 35A peak - so essentially max wattage they can support is 1000W.

 

[voidedwarranty]

Do you need CANbus for the Sondors Ultra or is it something you just want?

I'd be curious to know about Sondors too ... not sure if they are using CAN .. but their latest shipping date is June 2021. Based on what we see, we will be ready with CAN by then.

The Ultra motors in the Sondors utilize CANbus. The battery, motor, display, and gear shift sensor all indicate CANbus protocol on their spec sheet. I attached a pdf below (LX spec) sent to me from Sondors customer support.

@pushkar I am not aware of the continuous or peak outputs of the battery but the spec of the battery are listed in the sheet as well. 48v21ah LG 3500 cell. Also the shipping date of June is for orders placed today. Orders placed over the summer are estimated for January/February. Mine specifically is slated for shipping the week of 2/15.

 

[pushkar]

The Ultra motors in the Sondors utilize CANbus. The battery, motor, display, and gear shift sensor all indicate CANbus protocol on their spec sheet. I attached a pdf below (LX spec) sent to me from Sondors customer support.

@pushkar I am not aware of the continuous or peak outputs of the battery but the spec of the battery are listed in the sheet as well. 48v21ah LG 3500 cell. Also the shipping date of June is for orders placed today. Orders placed over the summer are estimated for January/February. Mine specifically is slated for shipping the week of 2/15.

Thanks for this. Gives me a better sense for the spec. We are tracking late March / early April for the CAN version.

Cant make out what the battery rating is. Based on the what I am seeing from manufacturers in asia right now, the most popular BMS versions are 15A / 25A (peak) for 750W motors, or 19A / 35A(peak) for 1000W motors. Would be great to find out what the actual rating it once the bike arrives.

Thanks again. This was very helpful.

 

[greeno]

What a journey getting to the end of this endeavor. First I couldn't log in "Password Error". That was on me I had wattwagon.com not wattwagonS.com, password was correct I just wasn't smart enough to follow directions that Pushkar sent me. So he called me and we "Zoomed" and he got me squared away. Second after I was able to log on it wouldn't recognize the connection. Again Mr. P contacted me and had me download a newer version of my USB driver and voila I got connected. Im sure my frustration showed up in my postings but Pushkar was allways professional, courteous, and helpful in getting me sorted out.

Finally got my throttle unlocked and a few other changes and it did make a difference in acceleration for the better.

I will post an update later this week after I have taken a few more rides. I have some suggestions on the whole registration/ signing in process as well as a few comments on the video Pushkar has made explaining the process of programming. All good and will maybe help someone like me who wants to adjust certain aspects in the tuning process.

For anyone making the switch from the BBSHD to the Ultra I have some opinions on that as well as I have both motors on two different bikes and can compare apples to apples.

Thanks again Pushkar.

 

[pushkar]

What a journey getting to the end of this endeavor. First I couldn't log in "Password Error". That was on me I had wattwagon.com not wattwagonS.com, password was correct I just wasn't smart enough to follow directions that Pushkar sent me. So he called me and we "Zoomed" and he got me squared away. Second after I was able to log on it wouldn't recognize the connection. Again Mr. P contacted me and had me download a newer version of my USB driver and voila I got connected. Im sure my frustration showed up in my postings but Pushkar was allways professional, courteous, and helpful in getting me sorted out.

Finally got my throttle unlocked and a few other changes and it did make a difference in acceleration for the better.

I will post an update later this week after I have taken a few more rides. I have some suggestions on the whole registration/ signing in process as well as a few comments on the video Pushkar has made explaining the process of programming. All good and will maybe help someone like me who wants to adjust certain aspects in the tuning process.

For anyone making the switch from the BBSHD to the Ultra I have some opinions on that as well as I have both motors on two different bikes and can compare apples to apples.

Thanks again Pushkar.

Absolutely @greeno . I am glad we able able to get this going. I have compiled more feedback from a couple more users - different problem (bike battery was turned off) so will add to the checklist.

Cant wait to hear your feedback on the updated settings and the comparison to BBSHD

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Thanks for this. Gives me a better sense for the spec. We are tracking late March / early April for the CAN version.

Cant make out what the battery rating is. Based on the what I am seeing from manufacturers in asia right now, the most popular BMS versions are 15A / 25A (peak) for 750W motors, or 19A / 35A(peak) for 1000W motors. Would be great to find out what the actual rating it once the bike arrives.

Thanks again. This was very helpful.

Sondors BMS for their batteries have a 35a max load. The battery is the weak link in being able to upgrade the wattage on the bike.

 

[greeno]

Hey gents I have a couple of comments as far as registering and accessing programming software are concerned.

1. The download that is sent to you by WW by e-mail is the program that you will do your programming with.
2. After initially registering it should autofil wattwagon(S) e-mail address and password.
3. You should be notified by another e mail stating that you are approved and good to go. ( I wasn't notified and had to contact WW )
4. After getting approval and opening up the original download click on the X1 file to open, the other two are for the manuals ( English,German ).
5. Unplug main harness cable from motor going to display ( green plug 5 wire ) and make sure your battery is turned on or in my case I don't have a switch so make sure battery is plugged into motor, mine allways is.
6. Initial display bar on bottom should be green meaning connection is established. If it stays yellow like mine it could be a USB driver update is needed ( my issue ).
7.----VERY IMPORTANT--- Click on the READ tab at the top after you establish your connection to see your motors current settings and then RECORD THEM DOWN so you allways have a template to go back to if you get in over your head or if it's not working out.
8. I assume that when we all start programming our controllers we will be voiding whatever warrenty is given which is fair as far as I am concerned.
9. The Innotrace software program is pretty user friendly compared to the "Stock Bafang Ultra templates or the Penoff version which are much more in depth as far as adjustments go, even the BBSHD is much more involved compared to this one. But Alas this one is better IMO. I have ridden bikes with the other programming versions so I have first hand knowledge.
10. Other displays will work with these motors as I use the 750C and only have (5) assist levels to deal with so I dont have an "Eco" or "Sport" mode availible. Pretty sure my assist levels corespond as follows. 1=1, 2=3, 3=5, 4=7, 5=9.

. On the instructional video Pushkar made explaining registration and programming I have a couple of more observations.

1. The program he is using is the "Dealer version" showing Assist, Display, Motor, Controller,and Remarks tabs. I feel he should be using the exact one we get in our upgrade or state that in the video that these other tabs are NOT availible. Otherwise I would of dropped some more $ and got the 2300W version and tuned it down to 1500W if I wanted. Can only tune down not up. The one we get only has the "Assist" tab to change settings in. I assumed that we would be able to change the motor wattage as well. I know I know more wattage from motor means higher amperage the battery will need to supply. Typical 30a is pretty standard for 99% of the battery's sold and works for 1000-1500W motors and would trip if coupled up to a +1500W motor. I build my own battery's for myself and friends and I use a 50A BMS so that higher wattage option is allways on the table if needed
.
2. Another thing on my "Assist Level" menu The Torque tab shows 50a when set at 100%. On the "Throttle tab" it shows 50a again when set at 100%. And lastly the "Motor Torque tab" shows 75a when set at 100%. I assume this template profile is set for the MAX settings if you have the higher wattage upgrade, but it should be either explained or have seperate menu versions for different wattage controllers so we dont think that that is correct. My Max current output should be 30a JMO.

3. On the video Pushkar says that the "Sensitivity Torque" tab when adjusted to 100% lets the motor acts like a BBSHD and is cadence sensing only. Which as you know if you have one of these motors you can "Ghost pedal". Meaning you can lightly turn over the cranks with ZERO pressure on the motor and the motor will work on it's own. I didn't find that to be true on mine. You have to actually put pressure on the crankarms to get any assist.

These are just my first impressions in messing with programming process. I could be wrong and if someone wants to correct me go right ahead. Just want to get the straight skinny out there. Pushkar seems like a great guy and seems open to suggestions and I'm sure only wants to build a better brand and if that means making suggestions on actual usage I think will only be a good thing.

Going for a ride...

 

[eBikeaholic]

Late to the party here but just skimming through and man that @pushkar sure is patient. Thanks to all of you for going through this stuff and sharing.

I'm really disappointed about the direction Bafang is going with the canbus stuff but thank goodness WW and innotrace had the foresight to step up and keep these motors useful for us.

@greeno How's the X1 treating you? I'm still content with my stock uart ultra (car-replacement / commuter bike) because I could program it to give continuous power and cruise through the ghost pedal. I'd like to use a wattwagons x1 ultra motor on my next build but I'm mostly concerned with your experience #3 above regarding the "sensitivity torque" setting - were you able to figure out getting smooth continuous pedal assist with zero pressure on the cranks?

 

[greeno]

The X1 controller is rollin along fine no issues at all. But sorry still no "Ghost peddling". I like this motor a lot more than the older BBSHD. It's a bit more refined in the PAS department. On the BBSHD PAS was ALL or nothing. With the Ultra the harder you pedal the more assist. To be fair a completely stock off the shelf G510/M620 Ultra motor from China will do the same thing. Not quite as smoothly but a lot better than the BBSHD. To get a stock motor will set you back 9 bills or so and you can tune up the programming software if you want to. Cost a bit more going through WW $1,200 for the 750w version, plus tax and shipping, plus $100 for the 1000w upgrade, plus $25 to derestrict throttle, plus $200 for the upgrade program and you get the cable to program it yourself.
Four of my friends all have Ultra motors on their bikes. (1) Biketrix Ultra FS, (2) Andy Kirby Vapour, (1) Luna Apex, and another Exess E-180 2300w version with upgraded controller from WW and ALL of them say my bike responds better than theirs. Enough to swap theirs out for a WW? Probably not but if they new then what they know now they would of gone this route.
Funny you say you can soft peddle on your ride because we reprogrammed the biketrix and the AK's and they won't do it, it still needs some pressure to activate the PAS.

 

[eBikeaholic]

Glad to hear it, yeah I agree the Ultra is definitely an upgrade. My G510 is 2018 stock controller uart.

The Biktrix / AK's you reprogrammed that still required pressure for pas - were they uart? I made a video last year explaining my settings if you want to give them a try...

I didn't know Andy started his own brand, that's pretty cool, good for him.

I think the ww x1 will be a worthwhile upgrade for my next build but I'd really need it to give me a consistent power flow even when my legs can't keep pressure on the torque sensor. Judging by the feedback from the youtube vid - I don't think I'm the only one.

@pushkar when you get the chance, can you mention this to Innotrace? Adding a "moped mode" setting option that gives a consistent power flow with zero torque sensor pressure on the pedals would be very valuable to those of us who use these in suburban traffic and need a steady flow of pas power to avoid dangerous situations.