Bafang ultra Motor issue collecting dirt

[AHicks]

I reviewed the photos and have revised my assessment. What at first I saw as a tear in the bottom right of the third photo was instead a lifting of the gasket. The highest concentration of grit is at the output shaft it then disburses from there. That seal is not working. Let us know what you find there.

One of the bigger problems I think, is the owner isn't working on it here. Apparently he's taken it to a shop that doesn't give a damn. They've turned it into a basket case and are holding it ransom for large doses of money, warranty be damned saying it needs a new motor.

That leaves 2 options. Pay the ransom, or get legal.

An ugly situation to be sure. If the bike manf. hasn't been contacted yet, now might be a good time.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I've no bone to pick in this as I have a Yamaha PW motor. But I am curious as to all things mechanical. What I see is a large amount of grit/dirt/sand on top of the main bearing race for the input/output shaft. Looking at it further and comparing it to the below video where that gent removes his motor in order to grease it (a bit too much, if I say so...) I note that there is no seal whatsoever on that motor cover where the main crank exits. Which indicates to me this is the point of entry for dirt to get by those main bearings and causing the havoc you have experienced.

I noted on the UK Performance Line Bearings site, that Bosch has an additional bearing seal protector that is used for their Gen 2 motors output axle shaft and the reason being for that additional seal is to protect the motor components inside the casing from the kind of dirt entry we see with your Bafang. On your Bafang, I see nothing but the cast motor case cover fitting overtop the main bearing.

Note when he removes the front chain ring/spider assembly how easy it would be for dirt to enter into the motor casing. Who knows how tight the casing tolerances are when it surrounds that main bearing? What happens when the motor is subjected to full power and things get heated up down below there; maybe opening a gap between casing and outer bearing shell & allowing dirt to enter the motor? I wish you the best. It sounds to me that you have used this bike no different then I would my own Haibike and for that, you may have found the achillies heel of these Bafang motors......the hard way.

 

[PedalUma]

I've no bone to pick in this as I have a Yamaha PW motor. But I am curious as to all things mechanical. What I see is a large amount of grit/dirt/sand on top of the main bearing race for the input/output shaft. Looking at it further and comparing it to the below video where that gent removes his motor in order to grease it (a bit too much, if I say so...) I note that there is no seal whatsoever on that motor cover where the main crank exits. Which indicates to me this is the point of entry for dirt to get by those main bearings and causing the havoc you have experienced.

I noted on the UK Performance Line Bearings site, that Bosch has an additional bearing seal protector that is used for their Gen 2 motors output axle shaft and the reason being for that additional seal is to protect the motor components inside the casing from the kind of dirt entry we see with your Bafang. On your Bafang, I see nothing but the cast motor case cover fitting overtop the main bearing.

Note when he removes the front chain ring/spider assembly how easy it would be for dirt to enter into the motor casing. Who knows how tight the casing tolerances are when it surrounds that main bearing? What happens when the motor is subjected to full power and things get heated up down below there; maybe opening a gap between casing and outer bearing shell & allowing dirt to enter the motor? I wish you the best. It sounds to me that you have used this bike no different then I would my own Haibike and for that, you may have found the achillies heel of these Bafang motors......the hard way.

I see what you mean. Start the video when he talks like a chipmunk on helium at about 9min in. I would make a seal. Silicone 'liquid rubber' gasket maker stays rubber-like, malleable and does not stick to O-ring grease so apply this grease to the shaft and bearing so it does not stick. I would use liquid rubber along with an O-ring on the shaft to help keep out water and grit.

 

[JRA]

I've no bone to pick in this as I have a Yamaha PW motor. But I am curious as to all things mechanical. What I see is a large amount of grit/dirt/sand on top of the main bearing race for the input/output shaft. Looking at it further and comparing it to the below video where that gent removes his motor in order to grease it (a bit too much, if I say so...) I note that there is no seal whatsoever on that motor cover where the main crank exits. Which indicates to me this is the point of entry for dirt to get by those main bearings and causing the havoc you have experienced.

I noted on the UK Performance Line Bearings site, that Bosch has an additional bearing seal protector that is used for their Gen 2 motors output axle shaft and the reason being for that additional seal is to protect the motor components inside the casing from the kind of dirt entry we see with your Bafang. On your Bafang, I see nothing but the cast motor case cover fitting overtop the main bearing.

Note when he removes the front chain ring/spider assembly how easy it would be for dirt to enter into the motor casing. Who knows how tight the casing tolerances are when it surrounds that main bearing? What happens when the motor is subjected to full power and things get heated up down below there; maybe opening a gap between casing and outer bearing shell & allowing dirt to enter the motor? I wish you the best. It sounds to me that you have used this bike no different then I would my own Haibike and for that, you may have found the achillies heel of these Bafang motors......the hard way.

That definitely looks like the weak link to me also. However it looks like that lip in the outer casing could hold a seal and be kept in place by the chain ring spider? Finding the right size and thickness shouldn't be too hard. Wouldn't have to do more than pull the crank and chainring to measure it and fit a seal if you could find one. I'll be looking at that upon receipt of mine.

Edit: Here is the gap in question and the lip. There is also a lip on the inside so a split seal of some sort might be able to be found that will take care of it. If I find anything I'll report back.

I agree that he put way too much grease in there as it will melt some and go into the motor itself bigly......That stock whitish grease is not good but not much more of the red lithium would be much better. But that is the case with all Bafang and TS motors I have seen apart.

Not sure if his "waterproofing" using electrical tape is a valid option but whatever. Looks like he doesn't live in too wet of a climate.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I agree that he put way too much grease in there as it will melt some and go into the motor itself bigly......That stock whitish grease is not good but not much more of the red lithium would be much better. But that is the case with all Bafang and TS motors I have seen apart.

From the video's I've seen from Performance Line Bearings, he applies very little grease to the gear teeth; no matter the motor manufacturer. I too see this grease melting when high power is applied long term, with a bad result!

 

[ElevenAD]

I have had my Ultra completely covered in mud to point where it had to be chipped off and i have never had an issue with dirt inside the motor! This is the first time i have ever seen anything like this! That is a considerable amount of grit and crud! I hope you get the issue cleared up for as little coin as possible, thats not a cheap bike.

 

[JRA]

Further research has resulted in this as a definite possibility.


A guy on a Frey post had his torn down to replace the needle bearing on the drive side and his info included an oil seal of this size as part of his exploded view.

It really does look to me like a seal was intended to be there and not sure why there isn't on all Ultra's. It isn't going to mess with performance and is a cheap part considering the OP's circumstances that could have been prevented with one?

Going to order one and see how it fits on mine.....

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I have had my Ultra completely covered in mud to point where it had to be chipped off and i have never had an issue with dirt inside the motor! This is the first time i have ever seen anything like this! That is a considerable amount of grit and crud! I hope you get the issue cleared up for as little coin as possible, thats not a cheap bike.

How do you really know the status of what's inside the motor case; unless you have physically removed the covers? Have you done that and found everything clean inside? I believe if you have truly gone through so much mud and grit that it had to be "chipped off" then it might be a good idea to do those internal inspections, to be on the safe side & avoid what the OP is currently going through....

 

[Jon A]

I'd need to have one apart in front of me to be sure, but it looks to me like the rubber seal (actually looks like cork on the OP's but rubber on this replacement below) on the side of the sealed bearing pressed onto the shaft should press into the opening of the cover.

If everything fits tightly, it would be really hard for dirt to get in that way. It does look like in the OP's case, for whatever reason, it didn't fit tightly.

In any case, it looks to me like a simple bead of RTV around the opening of the cover would be all that is needed to ensure nothing gets in that way, to fill any gap if one exists.

 

[PedalUma]

When ever hear RTV I think return to vendor. That is the place all the defects go.
In this context it is just rubber sealant that sets at room temperature. This is the stuff I mentioned that RTV gasket maker does not stick to. A dab on the shaft is all it takes to allow for movement while having a tight seal. It is also nice inside shifters and on cables. It hates water and does not wash off hands or clothing.

 

[vincent]

not sure what to think about this but i sent my archon back to pushkar around 1000-1200 miles- i think-
and they put the archon in and i had them open motor and pack with the better grease while it was there, i specifically ask how the motor/old grease was on the inside and he said it all looked great...

seems if there is somewhere for stuff to get in the motors we would be hearing way more about this, a lot of these motors get the crap run out of them

now i dont ride in a lot of mud or wet environments being in the desert but am in a ton of dust/dirt/sand and often cross creeks/rivers/some mud in the summers and had zero problems

very sorry this poster had this issue and hope the bike gets up and running asap
but at this point seems unlikely this is a flaw that is going to cause problems for all of us, maybe his was not assembled correctly from the factory or something

 

[ElevenAD]

How do you really know the status of what's inside the motor case; unless you have physically removed the covers? Have you done that and found everything clean inside? I believe if you have truly gone through so much mud and grit that it had to be "chipped off" then it might be a good idea to do those internal inspections, to be on the safe side & avoid what the OP is currently going through....

I have only opened one of my Ultra and it's not something I would do again unless I had an issue, the gasket is very very thin and easy to damage

 

[JRA]

I had reached out to Neeko on the EMTB forums because I had seen him post on there and being in the UK he isn't getting alot of love with the bigger and very illegal M620. However you have to respect that he is totally using his various ones as they should be and beyond for getting info on how it may perform for those of us that have them over time and also where to source parts like from GBK.

He sent me a link to his new video this a.m.. I had sent him a link to this thread, obviously as he uses the OP's pix in the video, and I kind of think that from his experience over the last few years, that while he doesn't provide an answer like the one I am noodling with the oil seal, I get the feeling he thinks there really isn't a problem.

Anyway here is a link to his most recent video. Like and subscribe!!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Many thanks for your kind words @JRA and as you can see, I took your advice and joined EBR.

I Hope the OP doesn't mind but I used screenshots of this thread in my last video and since making the video, I can see more posts which raise interesting points.

Rather than for me to make a new thread, I'll do my utmost to help anyone who may have a problem with Bafang products. In addition, I am in talks with multiple advocates who also use Bafang products so I'll be sure to reach out to them for them to chime in on this thread.

Nevertheless, concentrating primarily on the ingress of dirt within the motor. This could have occurred by multiple ways. In recent months, advocates have even expressed that certain grease can lead to a build up dirt. Rather than for me to speculate, I would be grateful if others could let me know if they have encountered this same issue and provide details as to where they ride and a picture of the bike as a reference. The reason why I ask for a picture is because I do recognize that the M620 can be mounted on certain frames in different positions. On my which I've built, the motor sits more diagonally. Whereas if I reference my F1 FLX Blade or Frey AM1000, the motor sits horizontally to the chainstay.
I'll try and take some pictures as a reference but I'll leave a link to one of my videos which hopefully illustrates my point.

Again, please don't be shy. If you had a problem with a Bafang motor (regardless of model), reach out to me and I'll do my utmost to help. And please, be as detailed as possible. The more I know, the better my recommendation will be.

I look at to interacting with all of you

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I figured, this would be the best thread to share this on.

The full video will drop soon. Hopefully, this has peaked your interests

 

[Reece123]

@PedalUma @pushkar @AHicks @Jon A Hey appreciate come visit this threat we have the retailer weighing in with such charm https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/volition-bikes-in-sydney.40497/page-2#post-532300 please feel free to comment the saga continues

 

[AHicks]

@PedalUma @pushkar @AHicks @Jon A Hey appreciate come visit this threat we have the retailer weighing in with such charm https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/volition-bikes-in-sydney.40497/page-2#post-532300 please feel free to comment the saga continues

@Reese123, after hearing the vendors side of the story, it's hard to feel much sympathy for either side as I'm not into finger pointing. My interest would lie in identifying the problem, dealing with it, and moving on.....

 

[Reece123]

@Reese123, after hearing the vendors side of the story, it's hard to feel much sympathy for either side as I'm not into finger pointing. My interest would lie in identifying the problem, dealing with it, and moving on.....

Doesnt the outlet have some responsiby for support it’s product in the first 12 months? this is fairly standard, Im not expecting anything more, I currently I have a $7500 bike sitting in my shed for the last 8 months idle only having it for 4 months, they know what this issue is but just won’t return it fixed or replace it, I’ve moved on and purchased an electric scooter, it rocks, still that doesn’t change the facts and Voltion Ebikes responsibilities under Australian Consumer Law.

 

[AHicks]

Reece, no expert here, but my belief is those buying consumer direct from overseas vendors should set their expectations fairly low when it comes to warranty.

Sure there are some with outstanding reputations, but others?

 

[PedalUma]

Much of this is like buying a 'Rolex' from AliExpress. The photos and stats look good and the price is great. Can you find the seller on Google Maps? What are their Verified Reviews there? Anyone can outsource to a call center in India to have 'reviews' posted on their website.