Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

[scrambler]

I am opening this thread as WW is shipping a programming cable for the X1 upgraded motors and I assume others like me below will have questions, or may want to share their own programming experience and results.

After watching the WW dec 9th Video below
Archon X1 Programming - Creating Ride Profiles - YouTube

I have a first question.
The biggest advantage of a Torque sensing based pedal assist is the fact that the power delivered is directly proportional to the power you put in on the pedals. Because of that, the power delivered is directly modulated by the pressure you apply on the pedal, making it feel natural but superhuman.

So normally the various level of assist correspond to power multipliers like for example:
level 1 would add 100% of the input power => Result is 2X the pedaling power (you apply 100W you get 200W, you apply 200W you get 400W)
level 2 would add 200% of the input power => Result is 3X the pedaling power (you apply 100W you get 300W, you apply 200W you get 600W)
level 3 would add 300% of the input power => Result is 4X the pedaling power (you apply 100W you get 400W, you apply 200W you get 800W)

Watching the Video, I am not sure which of the parameters is supposed to set that multiplier if any.

@pushkar, can you confirm if / which one of the parameters is setting the multiplier between the input and the assist provided by the motor?

Thank you and a happy new year to all!

 

[Andy5]

I have Innotrace controller X1 with programming cable only one month. Bafang ultra / max 28A according the controller / 52V battery 14S6P= 30Ah-Samsung 50E. My controller was bought with all parameters to 100% (or 10), only sensitivity varied according to the level of assistance, which is a typical setting for about 90% of users (according to Pushkar). But it doesn't suit me - all levels are set to maximum, they differ only in sensitivity. In this setting, even the lowest level of assistance provides too much power (at least 300W-according to the display 850C). I am used to a wider range from about 150W to 1500W in 9 levels at the factory controller for about 2 years. I enclose a table of the current settings with this wider range, as the best setting for me now. Torque and Sensitivity is now OK, maybe Motor torque could be higher.
In my opinion, the percentage increase in power according to the own pressure on the pedal can not be set by only a single parameter, but by a combination of Torque and Sensitivity. I like seeing experience of others with their settings.

Level of assistance ​	Torque %​	Throttle %​	Sensitivity Torque level​	Speed Torque km/h​	Speed Throttle km/h​	Motor torque level ​
0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​
1​	10​	50​	1​	100​	100​	5​
2​	15​	50​	1​	100​	100​	5​
3​	20​	50​	2​	100​	100​	5​
4​	30​	50​	2​	100​	100​	5​
5​	40​	72​	3​	100​	100​	5​
6​	50​	100​	3​	100​	100​	5​
7​	60​	100​	4​	100​	100​	5​
8​	80​	100​	4​	100​	100​	5​
9​	100​	100​	5​	100​	100​	5​
10​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​

 

[scrambler]

Is there a document that clearly explains what each parameter does, because I am confused about torque % vs Sensitivity torque vs motor torque level...

 

[onlineaddy]

This video from Pushkar may help:

 

[BarnBoy]

Or you can read the manuals here. You may also want take a look at their Black Forest Bikes X3 Carbon. Looks really familiar....
-BB

 

[onlineaddy]

You may also want take a look at their Black Forest Bikes X3 Carbon. Looks really familiar....
-BB

That’s the same Hydra bike, the result of the partnership between WW and Innotrace.

 

[BarnBoy]

That’s the same Hydra bike, the result of the partnership between WW and Innotrace.

Their size chart was clearly modified. What @pushkar calls Large, they call X-Large....
-BB

 

[greeno]

As far as settings for the Innotrace goes here's mine and I am happy with these.

Torque setting: Level 0 - 0, Levels 1-9 - 10
Throttle setting: Level 0 - 0, Levels 1-9 - 10
Sensitivity Torque: Level 0 - 0, Levels 1-9 - 10
Max Speed Torque: Level 0 - 0, Levels 1-9 - 10
Max Speed Throttle: Level 0 - 0, Levels 1-9 - 10
Motor Torque: Level 0 - 3, Levels 1-9 - 10

Throttle, Sensitivity Torque, and Motor Torque were set at different settings when originally purchased. Throttle was restricted ( 50% ) which made it kinda useless so setting it to 10 made a big improvement.

 

[BruceBrown]

In the video, @pushkar says at the 5:25 mark that if the programming cable indicator doesn't turn green to ensure that the programming cable is solidly connected and to make sure the battery is on. When I unplug my display to connect my programming cable the display dies. How does one ensure the battery stays on when the display is disconnected? I don't even get the yellow bar, mine simply stays red. I have started and stopped the app as indicated in the video and have also double checked my connections multiple times. This is all I get - the red bar at the bottom which indicates no programming dongle.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

 

[greeno]

Your onboard display has no relevance in programming your controller which is in your motor. If you have a WW motor with Innotrace controler you will need a password from WW. They should send you a file with the link. Additional $ for this option.

 

[BruceBrown]

Your onboard display has no relevance in programming your controller which is in your motor. If you have a WW motor with Innotrace controler youwill need a password from WW. They should send you a file with the link. Additional $ for this option.

I guess what confused me from what @pushkar said in the video is to make sure the battery is on. If the battery is in the bike, how to you determine if it's on? I know it's on when I have my display plugged in, but when I unplug the display to hook up the cable is there another step to ensure the battery is on?

And are you saying that there is a different password in addition to the one you set up when registering the bike with the WW email address?

 

[greeno]

Couple things to clarify for you. If your motor is already plugged into your battery that is what he means by "battery is on". I guess some people have a switch in line to kill power.
Is your motor the Ultra? If you have an upgraded controller thats a good thing, but...... It is already programmed from WW with whatever specs you called out. Derestricted or restricted throttle as well as motor wattage. Motor wattage "Max" is locked in by WW. You can fine tune down wattage in % but not up to suit your needs. As far as doing your own programming changes, yes there is an additional fee and is regulated by WW. I think it's the update option if Im not mistaken and cost a couple hundred bucks. WW will then send you a specific USB cable specifically for your motor serial# that you can use. Can't use the standard $30 usb cable for the Ultra motor unless it's a stock motor. Even Biktrix bikes that have to a degree some in house tuning on top of the stock settings can use the standard cable. WW nada. Search on the WW section about the Archon X1 upgrade issues there's a couple you can read to get more info. I had an issue accessing mine and needed a newer driver on my PC to get it to connect up to the cable. Gotta sometimes choose or enter the correct Comm port to.
Are you not glad this is all so easy.
Send me a PM and I will give you my Ph# and I can give you the short cuts I know of or at least tell you what you need to do.

 

[pushkar]

@BruceBrown - can you please check if the USB driver is installed ? there are a couple of other users who had this issue as well.

On your hydra, the battery is always ready to go (On).. the switch honestly is more cosmetic now.

I am almost positive its the driver issue.

 

[BruceBrown]

@BruceBrown - can you please check if the USB driver is installed ? there are a couple of other users who had this issue as well.

On your hydra, the battery is always ready to go (On).. the switch honestly is more cosmetic now.

I am almost positive its the driver issue.

I can confirm it was the driver issue. I updated it on my computer and it worked right away.

 

[BruceBrown]

This video from Pushkar may help:

I'm still a little confused about some of what @pushkar says in this video. At about the 6:30 mark he begins discussing torque sensitivity and shows how in Eco mode level 1 is set at one, level 2 at two, etc. He goes on to say that at level 10 it's pure cadence sensing.

If 10 is cadence only, wouldn't the most torque sensitivity be at level 1 and then each move up in torque sensitivity reduce torque but add a bit more cadence until it's at 10? The reason I'm asking is because when he programs in 'Sport' mode, the torque sensing is set back to 1 for level 6, 2 for level 7, 3 for level 8, etc.

This would seem to me to actually slightly reduce the torque sensitivity for PAS as you move up from Eco or Sport modes 1. Am I thinking of this correctly?

 

[pushkar]

If 10 is cadence only, wouldn't the most torque sensitivity be at level 1 and then each move up in torque sensitivity reduce torque but add a bit more cadence until it's at 10? The reason I'm asking is because when he programs in 'Sport' mode, the torque sensing is set back to 1 for level 6, 2 for level 7, 3 for level 8, etc.

This would seem to me to actually slightly reduce the torque sensitivity for PAS as you move up from Eco or Sport modes 1. Am I thinking of this correctly?

you are right that I reset the sensitivity. I believe I was trying to show how to create profiles.
So on the video I set eco 1-5 mimicking 750W version with sensitivity 1-5, and sport 1-5 mimicking 2300W with sensitivity of 1-5.

 

[BruceBrown]

you are right that I reset the sensitivity. I believe I was trying to show how to create profiles.
So on the video I set eco 1-5 mimicking 750W version with sensitivity 1-5, and sport 1-5 mimicking 2300W with sensitivity of 1-5.

So is a torque sensitivity of 5 less than a torque sensitivity of 0 or 1?

If 10 is all cadence is 0 the most torque?

Or are 1-5 torque settings that increase meaning they become more sensitive as you get to 5? And 6-10 cadence settings that increase to all cadence at 10?

 

[pushkar]

So is a torque sensitivity of 5 less than a torque sensitivity of 0 or 1?

It’s a a lot more involved tbh. And I’m out of my depth tbh. I’ll take a stab at this with my understanding.

At assist 0, nothing is happening. No torque and no cadence.
From eco 1-5, the primary signal is torque sensing. What the motor does is provide increasing assist as you increase levels.

From levels 6-10 (aka sport 1-5), the primary driver signal goes from torque to cadence. The motor also Keeps providing increasing levels of assist. The slightest turn of the crank will result in motor providing assist.

If 10 is all cadence is 0 the most torque?

10 is almost all cadence
Level 1 is almost all torque.
level 0 means no assist.

Or are 1-5 torque settings that increase meaning they become more sensitive as you get to 5?

yes. More “sensitive” and also more assist as levels increase.

And 6-10 cadence settings that increase to all cadence at 10?

Transitions from torque to cadence.

 

[opimax]

Wow this explains exactly what I am feeling when pedaling high pressure at low speeds and too easy at high speed .if this is part of the adjustments I should be able to visit Nirvana with a few minor digital changes

 

[pushkar]

Wow this explains exactly what I am feeling when pedaling high pressure at low speeds and too easy at high speed .if this is part of the adjustments I should be able to visit Nirvana with a few minor digital changes

Yes. You can fine tune the settings so you get more of a workout.
I take the lazy way out and just drop the whole wattage to 1000W. That’s plenty assist and the default 1000W works for me.