Apparent Warranty issues with DaVinci N380 and 750W motors?

[BikeMike]

I just bought a 750W Evelo Aurora yesterday. They are backordered for six weeks.

https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/aurora/

I read the NuVincini manual. I found 250W and 500W, but no 750W specifications or warranties. I called Evelo and left a message. I wonder if the 750W is too powerful for the NuVinci N380?

I read several posts where people had problems with NuVinci hubs, especially with 750W Bafang BBS02 motors.

I am not sure how reliable the hubs actually are. If i had a problem, i want the option to install a derailleur. That does not seem possible with the Aurora.

I cannot tell from the picture whether the Delta X has a derailleur hanger, because that area is all colored black. I do not see a derailleur hanger, so i assume the Delta X does not have a derailleur hanger.

I am willing to change my order to the Delta X, but only if it has a derailleur hanger.

https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/delta-x/

 

[BikeMike]

Is the N380 hub warrantied by Fallbrook?

• I do not see 750W covered by this warranty.
• I also believe the gear ratio is outside of 2.0 to 1.
• I also believe the BBS02 has 95NM of torque.

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/kjy...2c41557f820888f/Manual_Nfinity_20_02_2017.pdf

• Damage to the product:
  - determined by Fallbrook to be caused by
  crash, impact, or abuse of the product;
  - resulting from use of the product in what Fallbrook, in its sole discretion, considers extreme applications such as, but not limited to, downhill, freeride, “North Shore” style, and BMX;
  - resulting from powering of the product with electric motors rated over 250 Watts for N330/N330f/N360 and 350 Watts for N380/N380SE, or any powering
  of the product with internal combustion engines;
  - resulting from running of the product with electric motors at continuous torque over 80Nm and peak torque over 90Nm;
  - resulting from use of the product with total weight (rider, cargo and bike) of over 200kg;

- resulting from use of the product outside the defined cog ratio limits at 1.8 to 1
on standard bikes and 2.1 to 1 (N330/ N330f) or 2.0 to 1 (N380/N380SE) on eBikes;
- resulting from use of the product at voltages of over 50V;
- caused by the use of parts that are not compatible, suitable and/or authorized by Fallbrook for use with the product; or
- occurring during shipment of the product.
How to get warranty service?
Claims under this warranty must be made through the dealer where the vehicle or the Fallbrook component was purchased, or through an authorized dealer of NuVinci Optimized components. Please return the Fallbrook component to the dealer together with the original, dated invoice or receipt. The dealer will contact Fallbrook customer service to handle your warranty claim. Dealers requesting a warranty claim should contact Fallbrook customer service to obtain a Warranty Return Authorization. The dealer will then need to return the product to Fallbrook together with satisfactory proof of the date of purchase.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

You don't see any derailleur because that is clearly a NuVinci hub drive. The NuVinci hub drive has been used on mountain bikes, but has had a lot of issues over the years. Evelo used it on their fairly weak mid drives for at least 4 years (250 watts and 500 watts), but those drives were more like 150 watts, and 350watts in terms of power or torque. (i.e.maybe 30 to 40 nm of torque ?) Putting a 750 watt motor or any motor capable of over 70 nm of torque is asking for maintenance trouble on the NuVinci IMHO. I just don't see it holding up, given my experience with 8 Evelos starting back in 2015, and their weaker motors which really were not that hard on the NuVinci. In concept the NuVinci can make sense eliminating a derailleur and all the gears, and providing some level of compatibility for a soft mid drive. (say 250 watts, like a Bosch). There are a lot of forums with reports of issues with NuVinci's over the years, on many types of bikes, in particular where a lot of strain was put on them, such as in a mountain biking experience with steep hills. Evelo has a 4 year warranty (parts only), but if you end up having to wait for repairs or pay to change that hub multiple times in 4 years, is it worth that possible hassle factor ? Evelo does a really good job of supporting customers with issues, but they also do an excellent job of scrubbing all negative reviews from their Shopper Approved marketing service. Shopper Approved makes it virtually impossible to post anything less than 4 out of 5 stars, due to their verification process, and giving Evelo a chance to correct any situation, and make sure reviews get bumped up to 4 or 5 stars, or dropped off the website entirely. It seems less than ethical how Shopper Approved operates, so take all the near perfect reviews with a heavy dose of sea salt. I know this from direct experience evaluating their practices when they kept hounding me to take them on for my own website. An Aurora with 750 watt could be a fine product. But skepticism and your observations are warranted with respect to the nuvinci combination.

 

[Alaskan]

Puzzling choice of bikes given the concerns you raised exhaustively in other threads.

 

[BikeMike]

Puzzling choice of bikes given the concerns you raised exhaustively in other threads.

I made a mistake. I was mostly fed up with the poor service from local bike shops. I was too willing to give an alternative a chance. I now understand why Velofix has become the largest USA bike franchise in just a matter of years. A huge pent-up demand for true service. Not much velofix can do for warranty, though.

I can only speak about how Velofix and Beeline are transforming the Denver bike scene. Denver is a very bike friendly city. Some bike manufacturers are headquartered in the Denver area. In the past year, I am astonished by the eager acceptance of Velofix and Beeline by both manufacturers and local bike shops. entire business models are being transformed.

I am mostly accoustomed to seeing very fit and fast cyclists in my area. In the past year, i have noticed a pronounced increase in people who i would not normally associate with cycling. I have also been surprised by how easy it is has been, at times, to pass a group of cyclists who are all decked out in traditional racing gear. They look like racers, but do not seem like traditional racers. Perhaps, they are from another state?

Cycling is very popular and well established in Denver. It seems like there has been a sudden increase in cycling activity in just the past year. I am unsure whether people are turning to cycling to improve their lives, or a new business model is transforming the cycling community. Probably, a combination of both. I cycle all year in a very popular area for cycling. I might just have a very good vantage point. A profound change has occurred, that i have a hard time believing.

Perhaps, more people are discovering my area by driving here? My area is ideal for both road and mountain biking. I have both types of bikes. More people seem to be commuting by bike, too.

I put too much credence into the ten day, full refund trial period. I intended to have Velofix deliver and assemble the bike. I intended to inspect the bike when Velofix assembled the bike. And return the bike immediately, if i found something I objected to. That's the problem with a buying a bike sight unseen. It's the same problem with Canyon, or any other Velofix related bikes.

The ten day full refund period was a red flag. Local bikes shops offer a 30 day trial period. Ten days is not long enough. Many places in my area provides strenuous tests, but even 30 days is too short.

I was aware of complaints about NuVinci. I could not tell if that was due to particular circumstances, or a problem specific to NuVinici. I learned. No harm done.

I have just as serious reservations about any other bike that I carefully investigated. It boils down to a set of unclear tradeoffs. I might abandon the eBike search for this year. The USA eBike industry is still maturing. USA eBikes might still be in the early adopter stage of the product lifecycle.

I can learn how to fix a conventional bike. Electronics are much harder to repair, or may be disallowed by warranty. Service, warranty and trained sales people becomes an essential component of long term success of the eBike industry. That lesson was difficult for the auto industry.

 

[BikeMike]

You don't see any derailleur because that is clearly a NuVinci hub drive. The NuVinci hub drive has been used on mountain bikes, but has had a lot of issues over the years. Evelo used it on their fairly weak mid drives for at least 4 years (250 watts and 500 watts), but those drives were more like 150 watts, and 350watts in terms of power or torque. (i.e.maybe 30 to 40 nm of torque ?) Putting a 750 watt motor or any motor capable of over 70 nm of torque is asking for maintenance trouble on the NuVinci IMHO. I just don't see it holding up, given my experience with 8 Evelos starting back in 2015, and their weaker motors which really were not that hard on the NuVinci. In concept the NuVinci can make sense eliminating a derailleur and all the gears, and providing some level of compatibility for a soft mid drive. (say 250 watts, like a Bosch). There are a lot of forums with reports of issues with NuVinci's over the years, on many types of bikes, in particular where a lot of strain was put on them, such as in a mountain biking experience with steep hills. Evelo has a 4 year warranty (parts only), but if you end up having to wait for repairs or pay to change that hub multiple times in 4 years, is it worth that possible hassle factor ? Evelo does a really good job of supporting customers with issues, but they also do an excellent job of scrubbing all negative reviews from their Shopper Approved marketing service. Shopper Approved makes it virtually impossible to post anything less than 4 out of 5 stars, due to their verification process, and giving Evelo a chance to correct any situation, and make sure reviews get bumped up to 4 or 5 stars, or dropped off the website entirely. It seems less than ethical how Shopper Approved operates, so take all the near perfect reviews with a heavy dose of sea salt. I know this from direct experience evaluating their practices when they kept hounding me to take them on for my own website. An Aurora with 750 watt could be a fine product. But skepticism and your observations are warranted with respect to the nuvinci combination.

Thank you. I will cancel my order. Reliability is important to me.

The Evelo warrany expires after four years. It seems like i would have no other option but to replace a failed DaVinci with another Davinici. The replacement would go into a bike that would immediately void the warranty.

Spot Brands dropout is orientated towards belts and hubs, but they also provide an adapter to attach a derailleur.

https://spotbrand.com/collections/bikes/products/rocker-geared-27-5

https://spotbrand.com/collections/bikes/products/rocker-ss-27-5

I guess the Rohloff hub is a true value. Quality hubs are expensive.