Allant Battery

[SMXBob]

I'd like to know what mileage everyone is getting with the Allants 8s and 9.9s. I read they have a max range of 100 miles and I talked to the Trek store manager about it when I test rode the 9.9s. And I know that companies exaggerate and you will never get what they advertise. But how much do they exaggerate? I read on the Trek website that one 9.9s owner claims he's getting 85-90 miles but doesn't say if he has the extender.

I just bought the 8s this past weekend (mainly for color but other reasons I chose it over the 9.9s). I charged the battery over two nights. It's cold here in Seattle but the bike was sitting in my nice warm house. I brought up the Cobi app on my iPhone (I think the app sucks). Set it to ECO mode and the app says I have 47 miles left! Seriously?! Then I went for a 42 mile ride with 20 miles having the motor off so 22 with the motor on and I only had 37% left which means I probably wouldn't have gotten 40 miles if I rode ECO mode the entire ride!

A whopping 50% + exaggeration?!! I have a cheap rear hub drive ebike that did that well. I love the 8s but I don't know what to do.

Does my new bike have a problem or is this what it is? I wonder if that is why they have delayed shipping, Bosch has a problem.

 

[rich c]

Ambient temp is a big issue this time of year for range. Rider weight comes in second. Do you know for certain the battery was 100% before your ride?

 

[SMXBob]

Charged over the weekend and it did say 100%. But the app said 47 miles when I set it to ECO mode sitting in my house before I went out the door.

 

[rich c]

With my Bosch Haibikes, the range changes constantly while riding. I don't think it even gives a range when I first turn it on.

 

[GuruUno]

I too have seen this type of issue. Maybe newer type of analysis software. But I used to feel more comfortable with the range estimates on my Super Commuter 8, and have to say that the 9.9S baffles me too. Not sure if it's a marketing gimmick to make us spring for the extra $$ to buy the extra battery....but yes, I see the same weirdness, never said anything because I was still experimenting and trying to figure it all out.

 

[SMXBob]

I've noticed it changed a little bit as I was riding, too. They did seem to be pushing that extra battery a bit when I bought mine... Only one way to find out I guess is to ride it until it dies. My problem is, and why I finally switched from my road bike to an ebike, is my last 5 miles are always uphill no matter how far I ride. I don't have the ambition like I used to. So if the battery dies before then...

Anyone use or try the extra battery? I was wondering if the display or app shows them separately or just a total amount left.

 

[GuruUno]

I actually had 72 mi. showing at start and changing modes drastically modified the amounts for each mode. Again, did not see this type of behavior on the SC8.

 

[SMXBob]

The display said you had 72 miles to ride? I must have a problem then. 47 is a huge difference.

That's ironic too because when I test rode the 9.9s I had no problems with the shifter.

I wonder if it has to do with how they are put together once they reach the store.

 

[GuruUno]

The very 1st day I got my 9.9S, after a full charge I showed 62 miles available. However, after a few trips, mostly in ECO and a few Turbo "moments", it slowly creeped up to 72 miles. From what I read and understand, the software 'learns' from your usage and estimates distance available from previous stats, so it's obviously new compared to the old. Bottom line is I never had and wide discrepancies with the old, just curious to see what happens as I gain more experience with this one.

 

[tegnamo]

I've gotten nearly 70 miles of range on my Domane+ (last year's) with 500Wh battery. I did a really hilly, punchy gravel ride. I rode maybe 75% Eco, 20% Tour, and 5% Turbo (at the end because I was super tired ).

 

[SMXBob]

It's encouraging to hear that it may get better however I just checked mine after an overnight charge and it dropped to 42 with at full charge. First time I heard it learns your usage which would explain the drop after a cold ride. But I would have expected down from 70 not 47.

Yes, the end of the ride is the most important - turbo mode to the top!

 

[Over50]

It adjusts its mileage estimate based on something like the last five miles (maybe 3, I can't recall). @Court always mentions this in his reviews of Bosch bikes. If you just turn on the bike and it reads 70 estimated Eco miles and if that 70 was based on more ideal conditions, then it would be perfectly reasonable to see it drop considerably after riding some miles in much less favorable conditions (wind, hills, cold ...). On my faster Bosch bikes, that use the Powerpack 500, my best range will be in the 50s in ideal conditions in Eco. Throw in a 10+ mph headwind and it will be in the mid 30s or low 40s. Generally, the range estimate will drop almost by half when you move from Eco to Tour. From Tour to Sport and to Turbo is a less significant reduction. I mentioned my best range on the Powerpack 500 bikes is in the 50s, so extrapolating to a 625 WH battery pack and I would guestimate something in the 70s for ideal conditions (I'm a 170 lb rider). Although the newest Bosch motors are somewhat of an unknown for me. If you happened to have read my thread on my initial experience with my Allant 9.9s, I felt the range on the one day I commuted on it (35 miles) was a little low relative to my expectations. But I threw in the caveat that my bike did sit all day outside in the cold (mid 30s to low 40s). Cold weather will definitely impact your range.

It is pretty common for me to see my range estimate increase over time too. If I travel into work with a headwind for instance and then get tailwind on the return trip, a few miles into that return trip I'll usually start seeing the range estimate increase even though I'm discharging the battery as I ride. As I learned the system (referring to my older bikes with the Powerpack and older Bosch motors) I found the estimator to be predictable and fairly accurate. Also, one thing that I noticed commonly was that the range estimate would be much higher when first heading off in the morning with a fully charged battery. A mile or so into the trip and it would adjust to something that was more in line with my expectations. That first adjustment would be a rather large one like you describe and then through the trip subsequent adjustments would be very small and in line with the expectations of having a consistent discharge given the weather conditions.

I mentioned that the new Bosch motor is an unknown for me on this new bike. I don't know if it is more or less efficient vs the older motor. I also don't know how much impact the use of the Cobi hub and how much the addition of a smartphone to the power load impacts the overall range. I've read here that lighting is a minimal draw but not sure how much the smartphone and the power usage of the display might cut into that 625 WH battery.

 

[GuruUno]

Concur. The only additional itemI'd add is that I really wonder if the Smartphone Hub was a better choice than the Kiox, as quite frankly I'm not crazy about strapping a $1,000 iPhone in the cradle. I had a past experience with the iPhone BACK getting smashed. (I understand this mount won't allow a similar occurrence, but still, I'd rather not use it) . It was the Nite Ize HandleBand Universal Smartphone Bike Handlebar Mount (my review on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B078LQYYRV0 )
I wonder if we were given a choice how many would prefer 1 over the other?

 

[SMXBob]

I'm going to have a problem if it bases my riding on the last 5 miles of my ride. Why wouldn't they evaluate the entire ride?

I used the smartphone hub and it drained my phone's battery. As I watched it die at first I thought it destroyed my iPhone. Fortunately when I put my battery case back on my iPhone came back to life.

I can see using the map feature but why do companies spend so much money and effort on developing software that plays music, makes a call , uploads your data so you can show others how much you ride? I'd rather see how far I ride in each mode including off and any other information that can help me improve my mileage or riding the bike. I'd also like to download the ride data so I can compare rides.

The manual I got with the bike was mostly about safety and general riding not much about the bike itself in fact nothing on this new motor and battery. So I found it ironic that they would allow music and phone calls to be accessed while riding. Distracted riders are far worse then distracted drivers.

And of course they didn't design with a case in mind so every ride you have to take your phone out of the case. I'd prefer to not drain the bike battery anymore than necessary.

Trek allows the music and phone calling so why not the ability to turn the lights off? It's builtin to the system but Trek had it taken out.

This probably sounds like a rant but unfortunately I'm a bit disappointed in an otherwise awesome bike that I spent some good money on.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I feel a little better about my purchase but not anywhere near what I had expected from the information I had before I bought it.

 

[tegnamo]

When a distracted rider hits someone or something they are not carrying 6,000lb of metal with them. So I disagree with your statement on that.

But distracted is distracted so your points are valid. Still, people want lots of new features. You gotta keep up with innovation or else it's kinda ho hum.

Lights are an important thing in Trek's eyes I imagine, so they want you to have them on.

Your dealer can run diagnostics on your bike and tell you sort of a range/mode breakdown I think. Ask them about it. Doesn't solve your issue necessarily I realize.

 

[SMXBob]

When you are hit by a distracted cyclist that sends you over the handlebars head first into the pavement breaking your collarbone into four pieces then you can tell me how valid my statement is. Two surgeries and still not perfect. Cost him $100,000.

I'm a lot more cautious now and see riders with headphones all the time doing stupid things, not paying attention riding like they are the only ones out there. Plus they can't hear you when you need to pass them.

I love to ride. I don't need toys to enjoy it.

 

[tegnamo]

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience my dude.

 

[GuruUno]

I may not have the years of experience that a lot of bike riders here may have, but let's be real. Who the F needs all the distracting crap? That was my initial point. However, each to their own. Telephone, GPS, music, texting, interaction with anything display on handlebars, pushing buttons, looking down, playing music, various modes, looking down, I agree, who needs it. Speed, cadence, range, enough. I ride the NJ highways a lot with my cars, and it's fear with A-holes drifting lanes at 20 MPH over/under the speed limit or while waiting at a red light constantly looking in my rear view mirror to see if that person will look up from their lap before hitting the gas pedal. So yes, the concerns are real, and I agree with SMXBob. Riding a bike is bad enough when people push you to the side of the road, honk their horns, yell, "Get off the road". I value my life. Hence the 24x7 helmet cam while biking as well as dash-cam while driving. Someone wants to Fxxx with me, I'll get millions if I'm a vegetable and that's the way it is.

 

[GuruUno]

So, as a totally different point, which most likely should have a separate thread dedicated to it, but because this has already been mentioned here, here is a valid reason why we really don't need all the tech for a bike smartphone hub:

 

[SMXBob]

That's strange, I posted a comment yesterday and now its gone.

Yes, I see this every time I ride through the UW. Kids in college faces pushed against their phones walk right across the bike path or roadway and don't even look up. Even an education doesn't seem to help...

I'm looking to get a cam on my bike wondering what anyone is using that has quality video and runs for hours?