A Road-Cyclist Thoughts On E-Bikes

[almikel]

My primary mode of commuting to work for the last 15 years or so has been by bicycle.
Up to the last 5 years or so I used to love it - it was a highlight at the start and end of the day to look forward to.
As I got older the hills got steeper and it became a chore and painful on my knees on the steep parts.
I stopped doing social rides about 5 years ago as I couldn't keep up any longer - especially on the hills.

I finally bit the bullet and bought an e-bike 3 weeks ago - a Giant Revolt e-gravel bike.
What a game changer !

The work commute is an absolute delight to look forward to again on the e-bike...I get to work earlier because as soon as I wake up I want to jump on the bike...hey if I get to work earlier I can leave earlier to jump on the bike again...work commutes are fun again instead of a chore.
I've started doing bike rides again on the weekend just for fun...seeking out hills to see what the Revolt can haul my f@t@ss up...the steepest hill in Brisbane (Gower Street, Toowong) turned out to be hard work on the e-bike...but likely less stress on my knees than choosing the steepest way home on my acoustic...

I'm yet to participate in a group ride - my 1st one is planned for Wednesday morning - no doubt I'll cop the usual flack when an e-bike turns up with a crew of acoustics...but the point is I can participate again...my last group ride was 5 years ago...

People ask me if I still get exercise now I have an e-bike?:

• Well it's a pedal assist bike, not a throttle bike...so yes I get exercise.
• the intensity of effort drops with an e-bike - but you still get your heart rate up
• My commute is completed in less time, but I'm looking for longer routes - just because it's fun
• I'm riding on weekends again which I wasn't doing on my acoustic - just because it's fun

I'll see how some group rides go - it will totally depend on the attitude of the group having an "e-biker" along...
...slogging into a headwind I'm sure they'll be happy having me at the front...just hoping my battery lasts

Mike

 

[Marci jo]

My primary mode of commuting to work for the last 15 years or so has been by bicycle.
Up to the last 5 years or so I used to love it - it was a highlight at the start and end of the day to look forward to.
As I got older the hills got steeper and it became a chore and painful on my knees on the steep parts.
I stopped doing social rides about 5 years ago as I couldn't keep up any longer - especially on the hills.

I finally bit the bullet and bought an e-bike 3 weeks ago - a Giant Revolt e-gravel bike.
What a game changer !

The work commute is an absolute delight to look forward to again on the e-bike...I get to work earlier because as soon as I wake up I want to jump on the bike...hey if I get to work earlier I can leave earlier to jump on the bike again...work commutes are fun again instead of a chore.
I've started doing bike rides again on the weekend just for fun...seeking out hills to see what the Revolt can haul my f@t@ss up...the steepest hill in Brisbane (Gower Street, Toowong) turned out to be hard work on the e-bike...but likely less stress on my knees than choosing the steepest way home on my acoustic...
some group rides go - it will totally depend on the attitude of the group having an "e-biker" along...
...slogging into a headwind I'm sure they'll be happy having me at the front...just hoping my battery lasts

Mike

Mike,
Congrats on your bike! Makes going to work fun.
My first group ride with my ebike did not go well. I was new to the group and the only ebike. Made the mistake of passing the hot shot leaders up some hills. Although they were respectful, they were NOT happy. If I did it again I would stay middle of the pack until I was more accepted.
Your experience may be different now that there a more ebikes around. And also if you already know the members they most likely will be glad to see you again. Hope your group ride goes well and please post how it goes.
Many wonderful miles to you.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the intensity of effort drops with an e-bike

It is only true with the 25 km/h speed limiter Otherwise, you can keep exactly the same training intensity as on a traditional bike - you just ride faster

 

[cj3209]

Mike,
Congrats on your bike! Makes going to work fun.
My first group ride with my ebike did not go well. I was new to the group and the only ebike. Made the mistake of passing the hot shot leaders up some hills. Although they were respectful, they were NOT happy. If I did it again I would stay middle of the pack until I was more accepted.
Your experience may be different now that there a more ebikes around. And also if you already know the members they most likely will be glad to see you again. Hope your group ride goes well and please post how it goes.
Many wonderful miles to you.

I have to admit when I was toiling away on a steep hill with my aero bike (I'm in pretty decent shape) and this older lady passed me easily on her e-Bike, I got annoyed to say the least.

It's a paradigm shift that I believe we all need to make, especially myself. So what if I got passed? I shouldn't be bothered by that.

Give it some time...

 

[BEC111]

I have to admit when I was toiling away on a steep hill with my aero bike (I'm in pretty decent shape) and this older lady passed me easily on her e-Bike, I got annoyed to say the least.

It's a paradigm shift that I believe we all need to make, especially myself. So what if I got passed? I shouldn't be bothered by that.

Give it some time...

This reminds me of an event that led to my getting my ebike. Early last spring I was on my Cannondale Adventure analog bike struggling up the incline on my “short” season warmup ride when I was passed by a running young woman pushing an exercise stroller with two little kids. Up hill.

I realized that this 70 year old was unlikely to get into good enough shape to ever pass her.

Bought my ebike a few weeks later

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It was 2013, the year in which I bought my last traditional bike and was riding it for health reasons. There is a popular Warsaw tourist guide, Piotr Wierzbicki. Part of his guided tours (under the name of "Warsaw In Snapshots") has been bike-based. Weekend tours involved short group rides between points of interest where Piotr was explaining interesting facts about the history of those places. Now, one of such rides involved a descent over spiral Karowa Street viaduct. I stood at the top and was taking photos with a film SLR camera. After the photos got developed, I discovered an unusual tour member: A runner. The guy was always first at any of the points of interest!

@Jerzy Bańkowski: I can see you in the photo!

 

[almikel]

the intensity of effort drops with an e-bike - but you still get your heart rate up

It is only true with the 25 km/h speed limiter Otherwise, you can keep exactly the same training intensity as on a traditional bike - you just ride faster

I should have said, "you can choose to drop the intensity with an e-bike" ...
...one of my creaky knees decided to flare up...so no group ride this week ...but faced with the option of walking to the bus stop at either end of my commute vs an e-bike ride to work just "rolling over the pedals" at higher boost than I normally use, the cycle was way easier on my sore knee compared to walking...although I should have just worked from home instead to rest it better.

Made the mistake of passing the hot shot leaders up some hills

Oops - good tip

And also if you already know the members

mostly a work crew - so all cool - they know I've ridden to work forever but haven't participated in group rides 'cos I'm old and slow, but with my new e-bike they're keen to get me along...
...but I'll ensure to hang back a bit...they're still a competitive bunch of mostly < 40 year olds still with lots of testosterone...

It's a paradigm shift that I believe we all need to make, especially myself. So what if I got passed? I shouldn't be bothered by that.

Agreed - interestingly I had a different experience on the weekend - I had a roadie slipstream behind me for several kms on flat stuff, then we had a chat when we got onto slower stuff.
He had a bunch of questions on e-bikes, as he was keen to get his wife on one.

This reminds me of an event that led to my getting my ebike. Early last spring I was on my Cannondale Adventure analog bike struggling up the incline on my “short” season warmup ride when I was passed by a running young woman pushing an exercise stroller with two little kids. Up hill.

I realized that this 70 year old was unlikely to get into good enough shape to ever pass her.

Bought my ebike a few weeks later

Good call

cheers,
Mike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mike, all clear now. You could also work on higher cadence at lower gears to save your knees? The power delivered to the cranks is the force exerted by leg on the pedal times rotational speed. More rpm = less force at the same power. (Am I obvious?)

 

[kmccune]

I have to admit when I was toiling away on a steep hill with my aero bike (I'm in pretty decent shape) and this older lady passed me easily on her e-Bike, I got annoyed to say the least.

It's a paradigm shift that I believe we all need to make, especially myself. So what if I got passed? I shouldn't be bothered by that.

Give it some time...

Little did you know she was running with the motor off( just kidding)
The good thing around here is there is no one to compete with but yours truly, this area is not very bike friendly.

 

[Scarlet/Fire]

My brother and I spoke with road-cyclist Marcin we made friends with on a long and steep mountain ride. Marcin expressed his thoughts on e-bikes:

1. Many people just can't ride traditional bikes. E-bikes gave them a new life;
2. Wifes often don't ride together with their husbands because they feel weaker physically. Once the husband bought an e-bike to his wife, he often considers e-bike purchase for himself.
3. And when someone has spent money that could buy a car instead, it's such a waste not to ride the e-bike! As it is so much fun, e-bikes are ridden more frequently than traditional bikes.

Notice these words were expressed by a road cyclist who might be upset we were overtaking him uphill regularly. Yet the guy was reasonable, pleasant, and thinking. He didn't mind someone else having fun from riding just different type of bike. And he was completely unbiased.

My brother (who actually needs no e-bike but rides them anyway) told me later:
— The whole fun of mountain road-cycling is the downhill ride. Why to suffer on the ascent at all?!

Thoughts?

Passed a road biker couple (proper etiquette,speed,warning- a mile later I see the guy pumping hard to catch up with me? As I cranked it up a big hill with some pas he passed me -okay,but the look on his face and body language it was as if I had damaged a fragile ego,and he had to fix that! I have no problem being this guys rabbit- but geez I’m not sure his girlfriend was thrilled with his testosterone fueled idiocy- Ha

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Since I've started group riding with traditional cyclists, I decided I wouldn't pass road cyclists uphill No point. The motor does not make us better cyclists.

 

[almikel]

Since I've started group riding with traditional cyclists, I decided I wouldn't pass road cyclists uphill No point. The motor does not make us better cyclists.

agreed!
The road guys I ride with are very happy for me to take the front with a headwind on the flats...
...they're all much fitter/stronger than I am, so what would it prove to pass them on the hills using e-power?

The guys I ride with are ridiculously competitive - them tucking behind me on the flats with a nasty headwind is completely fine, but beating them on the hills is "cheating"...so I don't bother...
...I want to keep riding with these guys, so a little bit of Emotional Intelligence (EQ) on my part goes a long way to not damaging their egos...allowing me and my e-bike to continue riding with the group...
...going on the front on the flats is fine, especially if there's a headwind - always hang back on the hills!

cheers
Mike

 

[Marci jo]

Well said Almikel & Stefan. Let the hot shots feel like they are still ruling the cycling world.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

“Let the Wookie win”

Humor aside, I’m with Stefan... I won’t pass a regular rider on a hill, it just feels wrong. Sort of like showing some respect for their effort, and it’s not like I’m in some big hurry anyway. It’s resulted in a few pleasant conversations after the top of the hill with a couple folks.

 

[Dallant]

I’ve only really passed an analogger (;p) on a hill once but I wasn’t riding with him. He was rather shocked but pulled up beside me at the top and we had a great talk about the Allant.

 

[almikel]

“Let the Wookie win”

pure gold! and so true

 

[rdv]

Finding the right electric e-road motor for a limited road rider.

My first choice would be to continue riding my non-motorized road bike. Alas, it has been difficult to do that for the last few months. I start to suffer at a mere 100 beats per minute at the start of a ride, can sustain no more than 110-120 bpm towards the end, and the riding is not enjoyable. Though the legs and brain want to do more, the heart and lungs won't go along. If it cannot be remedied medically I'll move on to an e-bike, which is why I have been educating myself on the options.

My second choice would be a partial assist e-road bike that approximates the look, ride, feel and fit of my current road bike. In early 2021 that narrows the options, aesthetically and functionally, to Ebikemotion X-35, Fuzua Evation and Specialized SL1.1 propelled e-bikes. The system of choice is not a question of which is better (all seem quite good), but which most closely fits my particular needs. Rather than climbing faster at (my former) non-motorized level of effort, my need would be to reduce effort instead.

Senior citizen that I am, keeping the heart rate below the detrimental threshold only allows me to generate 100-125W on a sustained basis, possibly 150W for brief stretches. That calls for compensating assistance on steep climbs (10-15%) that impose slow speeds and cadences, but require substantial power.

Summarized below is my understanding of the three motors' respective response modes and curves. It is grossly assumed that the US plots would adhere to the pattern of the EU curves at the low end of the range, and that although thresholds can be tweaked, the curves as shown remain indicative of the relative levels of response. Pardon the poor graphics control... far from an online wizard.

• X-35 – Relies on speed to determine the amount of assistance. (The chart is a reconstruction of that EBR member Wilier Trestina obtained from Wilier and posted on the EBR forum.)

View attachment 79234
Given that my climbing speeds can get down to the 4-6 mph (6-10 km/h) at 40-60 rpm, the X35 motor would boost my 125W by 100-175W at peak assistance.

• Fazua Evation – Relies on cadence and rider power/torque input to determine amount of assistance. The charts were adapted from the Fazua site.

View attachment 79235

View attachment 79236

The Evation motor would boost my input by 150-250W based on cadence, fully 250W based on 100W of input.

• Specialized SL1.1 – Relies on cadence, and rider power/torque input up to 100% assistance. The information was taken from sites dedicated to Specialized.

View attachment 79237
View attachment 79238

The SL1.1 would boost my 125W with a 100% match of 125W. Stronger riders would take better advantage, up to 240W at 70-100rpm.

The above indicates that e-road bikes that use the Fuzua Evation motor, with its quicker and greater supply of assistance, would work best for me and others stuck in the lower cadence, lower power, lower speed regions of road cycling. The sleeker profiles of the x35 and SL1.1 frames are more appealing, but the necessity for superior low end performance takes precedence. Admittedly, I may not be accounting for some synergistic benefits, not reflected in the curves, that might keep even weaker riders higher up the respective scales. Regardless, any of the three appear to work very well for 200W+, 60+rpm, 15+km/h (uphill) riders.

Posting this with three broad intentions:

• To provide some information to others who may have similar needs
• To invite corrections to misinterpretations that make the information more reliable
• To invite feedback and insights from actual users of these motors, to move the information from the hypothetical/theoretical realm, into the real world.

Thanks to PeterG for his past help, and all you readers for your attention and future help.

I need to correct my characterization of the SL1.1 motor's power contribution. Communications with Specialized clarified that:
The SL1.1 can boost my 125W with 240W at 100% peak power maximum assist (at >70 rpm) for a total nominal power or 365W.
That goes a long way towards making the motor much more appealing, especially considering that it can operate up to 28mph.
Since the Fazua and Specialized motors both produce sufficient power to take on challenging climbs, the choice comes down to other aspects of the respective bikes.

 

[cj3209]

We live in an awesome time where there are a lot of options. I'm grateful to have multiple bikes and use them depending on my needs. My Canyon Grail-On allows me to go up mountains and steep hills that I would never attempt. It also allows me to commute to my office and not break much of a sweat and I don't have to use my car!

 

[Deacon Blues]

The difference between riding my (non powered) road bike and my e-gravel bike when I come around a corner and see a steep hill up ahead:
Road bike: Damn, another hill.
E-gravel bike: time for some TURBO power.

 

[tbar23]

@rdv - I would be a little cautious about your power math. I tested the SL1.1 motor as well as the latest from Bosch (Gen 4 or something - can’t remember the details since it has been about a year since I was in research mode) and eventually ended up with a used Stromer and its 500W nominal / 750W peak hub motor.
My goal was different than yours - I was after the fastest possible commute I could get - but I was surprised at just how much assist I needed to get there. I have tons of data on my own power output vs speed (and grade, etc).
Do you have the ability to test ride any of these bikes? Have you checked out anything with the Bosch Gen 4? It definitely has more power than the Fazua or SL1.1 motors. Of course, as you know, the bikes with more powerful motors start to feel less like a traditional bike.
Best of luck and great to see you continuing to ride despite the unfortunate health issues.