So, would i be jumping back and forth from lowest to highest PAS levels to get quasi instantaneous power?
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A generalized eBike design Amateur Cyclists can relate to and compare against
- Thread starter BikeMike
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So, would i be jumping back and forth from lowest to highest PAS levels to get quasi instantaneous power?
Trail Cruiser
Well-Known Member
Having a heavy ebike (with battery and motor) requires a small amount of steady power to maintain speed.
With the throttle alone, it is hard to have a steady power for a long time since your hand gets tired of holding it in the in-between position.
CodyDog
Well-Known Member
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Ditto.
I bought one but got a refund the next day. The bike had a NuVinci hub, but no cassette hanger in the dropout. The hub warranty did not cover 750W motors. I discovered warranty exclusion the day after i bought it. Without an option to replace a broken hub with a cassette, i could not accept the bike.
I think electric road bike PAS will need an "eSprint" mode, like mountain bikes have a "eMTB" mode, to be successful. I guess the one word that summarizes the impression left one me was "dull", in the sense of unresponsive. I got the dull impression from the lack of response to standup pedaling. I did not realize it at the time, but that was the one experience that stuck out most in my mind.
Road bike PAS will need to detect standup pedaling within one downstroke to make a favorable impression on potential customers.
Does your bike react to standup pedaling within one downstroke?
If so, how does the PAS react to the dramatic increase in torque due to body weight pressure and ~50% drop in cadence?
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Fazua co-founder Fabian Reuter said Eurobike 2017 was when everything "exploded a little bit" for the company, as high profile brands like Focus highlighted the drive in concept bikes.
The Fazua motor fits neatly into the down tube.
"We decided to produce ten times more drive systems for [model year] 2019, which just started, than we had the year before," Reuter said. That led to a scramble for financing and employees. Reuter said production for MY2019 models began in May, and the company is delivering on time to customers.
"Right now — right in the middle of starting and producing our MY2019 orders — we are also preparing the upcoming model years 2020 and 2021, and we have to predict how many drive systems we think we can sell," Reuter said. "For this prediction, the U.S. market is a big thing for us."
But part of that depends on how quickly Fazua can receive approval from U.S. regulators for the drive system. The company also needs to find a U.S. partner to handle servicing for the Evation drive system. Reuter hopes to meet with potential service partners at Interbike, where it will have a booth.
"It would be best to have a very big partner, and service wherever you need it, and maybe a partner that everybody trusts," Reuter said.
One benefit for OEMs is that the Evation system mounts in minutes on an assembly line. The bottom bracket attaches with four screws, and there's only one cable that runs from the drive unit to the handlebar controller.
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/pro...-hot-new-motor-waiting-us-regulators-approval
The Fazua motor fits neatly into the down tube.
"We decided to produce ten times more drive systems for [model year] 2019, which just started, than we had the year before," Reuter said. That led to a scramble for financing and employees. Reuter said production for MY2019 models began in May, and the company is delivering on time to customers.
"Right now — right in the middle of starting and producing our MY2019 orders — we are also preparing the upcoming model years 2020 and 2021, and we have to predict how many drive systems we think we can sell," Reuter said. "For this prediction, the U.S. market is a big thing for us."
But part of that depends on how quickly Fazua can receive approval from U.S. regulators for the drive system. The company also needs to find a U.S. partner to handle servicing for the Evation drive system. Reuter hopes to meet with potential service partners at Interbike, where it will have a booth.
"It would be best to have a very big partner, and service wherever you need it, and maybe a partner that everybody trusts," Reuter said.
One benefit for OEMs is that the Evation system mounts in minutes on an assembly line. The bottom bracket attaches with four screws, and there's only one cable that runs from the drive unit to the handlebar controller.
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/pro...-hot-new-motor-waiting-us-regulators-approval
Trail Cruiser
Well-Known Member
My 2015 Izip Dash reacts with added power to standing up on the pedal, but it is not as precise as using the throttle.
On fast starts, if you don't want to bump the person in front of you, or somebody bumps you form behind, then the throttle provides you with just the right modulation of power.
The Fazua ebike is lighter, primarily because it has half the size of the battery, 250 wh instead of the usual 500 wh.
I like your use of "right modulation of power", which is the crux of the matter.
I am totally OK with 250 wh. I have to accept some tradeoffs. Fall has arrived in CO. The wind is howling, so I practiced standup pedaling for 2.5 miles. Standing up for 2.5 miles is like 25 miles of sit down pedaling.
Soon, the cold weather will settle in. I will be wishing for a 250 wh system.
A special Motor and/or controller design might be required for an acceleration-orientated ebike. The magnet configuration and hardware might be important.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
I am totally OK with 250 wh. I have to accept some tradeoffs. Fall has arrived in CO. The wind is howling, so I practiced standup pedaling for 2.5 miles. Standing up for 2.5 miles is like 25 miles of sit down pedaling.
Soon, the cold weather will settle in. I will be wishing for a 250 wh system.
A special Motor and/or controller design might be required for an acceleration-orientated ebike. The magnet configuration and hardware might be important.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
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I need a motor that is reliable in 25F to 45F temperatures. I fear loss of power due to under voltage. One design feature i like in the Fazua is the battery might be heated from motor, which is adjacent to the battery. You can identify the motor by the tiny planetary gears.
I am a little suspicious of the extra gears in the bottom bracket. Fazua claims the motor freewheels, so no power loss. I am skeptical of putting any additional parts in such a high stress area, like the pedal axle. I prefer the Bafang M800, because it is a solid hunk of metal.
The founder of Focus is a world champion cyclocross racer. By putting the Fazua in the Raven2 mountain bike, Focus is giving a big endorsement to Fazua.
Focus is positioning this bike as a racing bike. So, i guess the market for a light motor is broader than just road style bikes.
This bike is actually better as a foul-weather bike, due to the tires and front shock.
Focus or Fazua should partner with VeloFix to provide service in major US cities (100 already serviced).
Focus is positioning this bike as a racing bike. So, i guess the market for a light motor is broader than just road style bikes.
This bike is actually better as a foul-weather bike, due to the tires and front shock.
Focus or Fazua should partner with VeloFix to provide service in major US cities (100 already serviced).
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Where do you get this whacked out idea? I reported you. Leave this thread and never come back.
I will give you credit for a truly spooky, stalker-like photo. Why don't you show your face?
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I think the "modulation of gears" can be a problem, too. It might take three or four standup and sitdown gear shifts, before i find the right gear for a particular grade at a certain speed. Coming into a grade too fast, at too high of a gear takes quite a bit gear downshifting.
When i get the timing correct, i can actually upshift going uphill. But it is tricky.
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Trail Cruiser
Well-Known Member
I would imagine the Fazua drive can be an ebike for the purists who are already lean and physically fit and might need just a little bit of help on the hills or when accelerating up to target speed.
For the rest of us with aging bodies and not that physically fit and not that lean (with arthritis, COPD, heart condition, obesity, etc..), we are happy with our stronger drive units and our higher capacity batteries.
For the rest of us with aging bodies and not that physically fit and not that lean (with arthritis, COPD, heart condition, obesity, etc..), we are happy with our stronger drive units and our higher capacity batteries.
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larry-new
Active Member
It's a market that's not there..those racer wannabes are going to (rightly) turn up their nose at electric assistance, and peer pressure will keep it that way. The concepts of aerodynamics, standing up, sprinting, instant power, low rotating weight, lighter and thinner tires, carbon fiber, titanium are theirs, and they've earned them, with sweat and grit and pain. Let's see someone heft that ebike cyclocross design up on a shoulder and run with it...the idea is quite humorous.
I respect a racer's efforts mightily...I was glued to the excellent Tour de France coverage, and in my little way shared their feelings while being in awe at their lighthearted conversation at 27mph. It is they that rule the performance market, and fans shell out to wear their heroes' uniform jerseys in respect.
An ebike for purists is to me an oxymoron.
I'm finding I can use what I learned in the performance world without having to achieve what is an artificial average speed with my ebike in order to salvage my glory days, if ever there were any. I'm very happy laughing at headwinds these days.
I respect a racer's efforts mightily...I was glued to the excellent Tour de France coverage, and in my little way shared their feelings while being in awe at their lighthearted conversation at 27mph. It is they that rule the performance market, and fans shell out to wear their heroes' uniform jerseys in respect.
An ebike for purists is to me an oxymoron.
I'm finding I can use what I learned in the performance world without having to achieve what is an artificial average speed with my ebike in order to salvage my glory days, if ever there were any. I'm very happy laughing at headwinds these days.
I am not in a position to judge, because i do not have access to market research information. Warranty and service are big comcerns for many people. From my personal viewpoint, I avoid any product when warranty or service appears to be an issue. If a company like Fazua can partner with Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc..., the risk is lowered. I have little confidence in the staying power of German brands in the USA.
I think perceived risk scares away most interest.
America is not a bicycle culture. Ebikes have been most successful in countries with strong bike cultures.
In my county, Jefferson county, CO, the government is supportive of eBikes. However, my understanding is a neighboring county, Arapahoe county, is against eBikes. CO state law is now supportive of eBikes. Unsupportive local governments hurt the cause, because local government laws override state law.
This type of legal situation makes it hard for business to make a large investment. The situation is risky for everyone.
I wonder if lightweight eBikes would be more successful marketed as transportation, rather than recreational vehicles?
Bicycles are much faster than cars for short distances, i.e., under 2.5 miles. I pedal my conventional bike to Walmart in half the time it took me to drive and park the 1.5 miles. Walmart has a pickup location, so cyclists can order onlineto avoid the risk of theft.
I pedal to Walmart in under five minutes. My guess is most people perceive biking that distance as taking twice as long as driving. I still have a hard time believing how easily and quickly i get around Denver on a bike. I feel a small, inexpensive and light eBike marketed for utility, rather than racing, would resonate with a much larger segment of the USA population.
I feel the USA bicycle industry is blowing a great opportunity to expand by reinventing itself with lightweight eBikes. I think the success of Velofix points to the exact reasons for failure of USA bike industry. The USA bike industry is out of touch with consumers, at least for me.
After all, IBM completly misundertood the PC market. MIcrosoft missed the mobile market. Just because a company was successful in past, does not guarantee future success.
Battery packs that are half the size of traditional ones, with smaller motors should mean lower costs. Trying to sell smaller eBikes at the same price as larger eBikes makes little sense to me. Just because an eBike is ultralight, does not make it a conventional racing bicycle. I think the industry is trying to apply the old school model to a new technology. I just do not know who they think they are fooling.
I do have great faith in lightweight eBikes, because they have the potential for being extremely practical for short trips.
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larry-new
Active Member
If, like me, you pedal to Wal-mart in 5-10 min.and nestle your bike with several more, the aggregate worth of which is $25, I'd suggest using, as in my case, a Huffy cruiser worth $159 new. I have brought my ebike to Aldi, as they have no bike rack and have been given permission to leave the bike inside by the exit and the cash registers.
I still haven't solved the lock problem, but feel in my bones that one doesn't use a $10 cable lock ( Huffy cruiser) for a $4k, or even a $2k.wonderbike. A battery Ryobi grinder defeats them all in a minute or so.
As for the ongoing ebike market discussion, here's what one hugely successful direct manufacturer has built (cargo, kids, commute, fun) These got the owners on Forbes' 30 under 30 list. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/electric-bikes
There are ebikes marketed all sorts of ways, even as...works of art. https://www.italjet.com/en/
I still haven't solved the lock problem, but feel in my bones that one doesn't use a $10 cable lock ( Huffy cruiser) for a $4k, or even a $2k.wonderbike. A battery Ryobi grinder defeats them all in a minute or so.
As for the ongoing ebike market discussion, here's what one hugely successful direct manufacturer has built (cargo, kids, commute, fun) These got the owners on Forbes' 30 under 30 list. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/electric-bikes
There are ebikes marketed all sorts of ways, even as...works of art. https://www.italjet.com/en/
The Walmart in my area has a pickup door. You order online. No need to lock your bike, because Walmart brings groceries to your bike, outside.
The VeloFix repairman told me of a guy who bought a Rad. He gets home faster on his eBike than he did by car. The Rad prices are very competitive. With Velofix providing all service on Rad bikes at home or office, i think a whole lot of local bike shops are going out of business.
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